Help with Daihatsu Terios brakes

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posted on Jun, 4 2012 @ 12:55 AM
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Recently, I purchased a 1997 Daihatsu Terios SX 4x4. The aim of this car is to be towed behind my bus when I travel, as an extra vehicle. I got the car cheap, and it came with the usual symptoms of a 15 or so year old car. Most of the work has been fixed by myself, but there is one last problem I cannot seem to fix, and even has the local mechanics scratching their heads as to what it is. Figuring someone here may have had a similar problem, I thought I'd put it out there to see if anyone could shed some light for me.

One of the first things I checked was the brakes, and found the front to be completely worn down to the metal. Changed them, no problem. Then to the back brakes, which are drums. Now they weren't like new, however, they would have passed muster as far as wear goes. Just for the sake of it, I changed them over with brand new pads anyway.

This is where the problems began. After a few drives, it sounds like the back brake is grinding metal on something, which is causing a vibration through the back of the car. At first I thought it may have been improperly fitted, so I re-did them, to no avail. Now this grinding can be felt through the car as you brake, but only happens when you continually hold the brake down to slow. If you pump the brakes slowly, it doesn't happen, and only seems to happen when the car is warmed. In the first five minutes or so as the car warms up, it doesn't happen. It is kind of like a vibration along with a grinding noise. I have taken the brake pads out three times, and had a local mechanic look at them in case I didn't fit them properly, but they are fairly universal, and they can only really be fitted one way to be correct.

About the only thing that was suggested was it may be a problem with the ABS (Anti-lock braking system), but I have had little experience with ABS systems, and wouldn't know where to begin for looking for something related, even if the car has an ABS system. Unfortunately, information on these cars is fairly scarce, even on the web, so for the time being, I'm a little stumped.

Any help here would be greatly appreciated




posted on Jun, 4 2012 @ 01:11 AM
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OK, before I start. I don't profess to have all the answers but I'll try...
Was the problem there before you changed the rear shoes??
If so I would suggest an ABS issue or drivetrain issue. ie, bent rear axle or bad bearing, even warped drums...???
To check if its an ABS issue, find a quiet road with nobody around and pull out your ABS fuse then drive and brake hard... Does the problem still exist?? If it does then its not the ABS..

If the problem was NOT there before changing the brake shoes then maybe the wrong shoes were supplied???
It has been known to happen...
Hope to hear about this soon because I'm curious..
edit on 4-6-2012 by Wewillrise77 because: ..



posted on Jun, 4 2012 @ 01:19 AM
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Originally posted by Wewillrise77
OK, before I start. I don't profess to have all the answers but I'll try...
Was the problem there before you changed the rear shoes??
If so I would suggest an ABS issue or drivetrain issue. ie, bent rear axle or bad bearing, even warped drums...???
To check if its an ABS issue, find a quiet road with nobody around and pull out your ABS fuse then drive and brake hard... Does the problem still exist??

If the problem was NOT there before changing the brake shoes then maybe the wrong shoes were supplied???
It has been known to happen...
Hope to hear about this soon because I'm curious..


Didn't notice it happening before the change out, and yes I did double check the pads were the right ones, I have discovered with Japanese cars it's a bit hit-and-miss for parts. It only happens on braking, and as soon as you take your foot off the brakes, it stops. Problem is I've only had the car a couple of months, and checked the drums for warping. About the only thing I struggled with is the pad itself sits in like a little metal bracket, but the second time around I made sure it was seated properly, thinking it was the problem.

I have never had a car with ABS before, and I will check the fuses to see if that could be the problem. It just seems odd that it only seems to grind once the car has warmed up though. But considering I originally plugged the mechanical 4wd switch in backwards when putting the engine back in, it's worth a look.

Thanks for your help



posted on Jun, 4 2012 @ 02:04 AM
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reply to post by 74Templar
 


Have you inspected the inside of the brake drum for signs of wear/gouging?

I ask this, as a slightly different shoe may fit but not function correctly.

If you can hear grinding sounds you will most likely find marks in the assembly somewhere, which will indicate the root of your problem.



posted on Jun, 4 2012 @ 02:48 AM
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reply to post by Timely
 


Checked and fixed all that. There was little to no wear on the inside of the drums. The fronts were the worst, needing both discs and calipers fixed/replaced. That was the first thing I actually thought, was that the housing was damaged, or re-seated incorrectly.



posted on Jun, 4 2012 @ 02:59 AM
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Did you "braked" your brakes? This means, depending on the pad, that you should break really lightfooded for at least 500km. Otherwise they cannot burn in properly and begin to squeek.

A other advise would be to check your braking fluids. If you have to pump several times, they might be leaking!



posted on Jun, 4 2012 @ 03:05 AM
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reply to post by 74Templar
 


The next step I would take would be to back off the adjusters, so that the shoes are nowhere near touching the drums ( best done at operating temp. so as to allow for heat expansion ).

If the problem is still evident, you could be looking at an axle or maybe diff issue. ( bloody cars! lol.)

Ed: flagged this for you in the hope of more minds on the job.
edit on 4-6-2012 by Timely because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 4 2012 @ 03:15 AM
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reply to post by verschickter
 


Do you mean did I bed them? Yes, although I only did it about a month ago, it shouldn't be grinding the way it is. I mean, you can feel it right through the car. I have had the drums off three times, and checked everything, the only thing I haven't done is replace the drums altogether. Despite this, the pads are only a month old, and were installed brand new.



posted on Jun, 4 2012 @ 03:21 AM
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reply to post by Timely
 


I'm defientely thinking brakes, as if it were a diff issue, it would be there all the time. The only time it grinds is when you brake, after a few seconds. If you take your foot off and pump the brake gently, it stops, same as if it's doing it, if you take your foot off, it stops altogether.

I'm hoping it's a fuse, I have done pretty much everything to the brakes I can, and it's defientely coming from the back of the car.

I'm waiting for it to stop raining so I can check the fuses out, I'm thinking the ABS, but thought it was like some small computer system, similar to a sensor. As I've never worked on ABS cars before, I was hoping someone would know what to look for.



posted on Jun, 4 2012 @ 03:31 AM
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www.2carpros.com...

I was also thinking along these lines. Can't see how a fuse could be the culprit.( you should still have normal brakes even if abs is down, you did not mention any abs warning lamp so I don't think this is the prob.)
edit on 4-6-2012 by Timely because: Added abs inf.
edit on 4-6-2012 by Timely because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 4 2012 @ 03:44 AM
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My test is to take the ABS fuse out so as to rule an ABS issue out of the equation...
ie, If it still makes the noise with the fuse out then it's not the ABS...

Other than the above, I'm not sure what else it could be, try the fuse and see if that helps.. Could help narrow things down a bit.



posted on Jun, 4 2012 @ 04:09 AM
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reply to post by Wewillrise77
 


I'm not even sure the car has ABS, but I will check it tomorrow. As I said I've done almost everything as far as brakes go, just not sure what else it could be.

Tomorrow, when it is light and hopefully has stopped raining, I will check the fuseboard and see if there is an ABS fuse. That was the suggestion from a mechanic friend too. I have never seen a light come on to indicate ABS or anything, but as I said, I had the engine out when I first got the car. Maybe it's just a switch or wire I hadn't put back in properly, or something small like that.

When I put the engine back in, I reversed the vacuum switches for the diff lock, so it was in 4wd mode when it wasn't. I was thinking it may have been something like this, something I haven't done properly that is causing it.



posted on Jun, 4 2012 @ 04:13 AM
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reply to post by Timely
 


Thanks for the link
I haven't done that yet to be honest, it very well could be the problem.



posted on Jun, 4 2012 @ 04:34 AM
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When I put the engine back in, I reversed the vacuum switches for the diff lock, so it was in 4wd mode when it wasn't. I was thinking it may have been something like this, something I haven't done properly that is causing it.



posted on Jun, 4 2012 @ 05:55 AM
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I'm going to ga ahead and assume that you used a micrometer to check the run out on the drums? How about flat spots on the tyres or maybe a wheel bearing issue. Bent axle is possible as is a bent axle housing or the drum not seating correctly. Did you sand the rust off the hub?



posted on Jun, 4 2012 @ 08:12 AM
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reply to post by hudsonhawk69
 


So far, all I've done is replace the old pads with new. I did clean the inside of the drum when putting the new pads in, also did this a second time to make sure it was clean and not dirty inside, but it was more of just a clean up than an actual proper rebuild.

Looks like I may have to pull the brakes apart again....



posted on Jun, 4 2012 @ 06:53 PM
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Some cars you also seat the brakes by going in reverse lightly with the parking brake set. Dunno if it's the case with this one, but it should say it if you've got the owner's manual.



posted on Jun, 4 2012 @ 10:50 PM
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Originally posted by 74Templar
reply to post by hudsonhawk69
 


So far, all I've done is replace the old pads with new. I did clean the inside of the drum when putting the new pads in, also did this a second time to make sure it was clean and not dirty inside, but it was more of just a clean up than an actual proper rebuild.

Looks like I may have to pull the brakes apart again....


UH OH, Please tell me you didn't use CRC, WD40 or something similar for cleaning the drums.....
If you did, then use brake cleaner to clean it off, clean again with brake cleaner then re-assemble.
The above lubricants cause grabbing when warm and in some instances can cause a brake to lock up at speed.....
I've seen the aftermath of this being done and it was not pretty!!!



posted on Jun, 4 2012 @ 11:19 PM
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reply to post by Wewillrise77
 


No no, I know that one is a no-no...


I checked the fuses this morning, and there is no ABS fuse, so it must be the brakes, or some problem with the back end of the car (rear axle, diff, etc.).

Cleaning it, I mean I sanded out the inside just to remove excess rust and damage. There was no real scoring or damage to the inside of the drum, but it didn't start until after a month or so after changing them.

Hopefully, if the rain holds off, I will pull the drums apart today or tomorrow, and see if there is new damage inside the drum or to the pads.



posted on Jul, 26 2013 @ 03:13 AM
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Share some knowledge of brake pads
1- Why we need know brake pad materials?
Brake pad is the safety component for automobiles. A well knowledge and wise choice for your brake pads will not only a guaranty for road safety, but also reduce the maintenance costs. But which one will be the right one for mine? Semi-metallic pads? Or ceramic pads? Of course, for a better choose, LAND FORSCHER engineers will give you some useful suggestions.
2- Does the OEM brake pad are the best?
There are number of brake pads manufacturers. It is dazzling to make a choice. Generally, we may simply buy original/genuine (OEM) brake pads, based on a belief that it is the best quality. But we may ignore that original/genuine (OEM) brake pad does not means the best brake pads. Automotive manufacturers prefer to adopt “capability sufficient” brake pads, to the performance best ones. That’s why modifying parts so flourish in the markets. In other words, OEM brake pads will competent in normally road conditions, and moderate driving habits. But they may not efficient enough when facing emergencies, for example, when sudden brakes during traveling on long descent or highways. You may feel the braking force fading, or even gone; stop distance turning longer; or taking more time to stop, or brake noise, etc.
In the past 20 years, majority of brake pads (including OEM brakes) are consisted of traditional semi-metallic materials & low-metallic materials. They are low in heat tolerance, corrosion resistant, comfort, another hand, noise in some degree. However, they have been improved or disuse by many well known brands, like FEROD, LAND FORSCHER, TRW, TEXTAR, TMD and so on, because In short, the development of brake friction material is a history of material science and engineering, along with the demanding change of automotive industry.
3- Brake materials history in brief
With the development of automotive industry, and improving of material science, brake pad materials have gained much development according to the change of car speed and weight of the body. Brake pads have gone through a process of wood material, asbestos material, semi-metallic material, low-metallic material & ceramic material.
Woody material & Asbestos material have been eliminated, because of low heat tolerance or harmful dust.
The earliest chance that ceramic material be selected was for F1 car racing, because it’s outstanding performance under high strength or extreme conditions. Generally, F1 divers can only overtake other competitors by delayed emergency braking before entering a curve. In these conditions, cars will come off the track, if the brakes material has any flaw. It is a violent situation for drivers, also an ordeal for the brake friction material. Finally, ceramic material stand the racket, gain its status & reputation, rely on the short stop distance, less fading, and minimal wear rate etc.
But for the cost reason, ceramic brake pads are not well accepted by market for a long time. However, along of the material tech become maturing, the ceramic brake pads price also getting down. It has been widely use in luxury cars.
4- Does ceramic material made up of ceramic?
There is a common mistaken concept among customers that ceramic brake pads made of ceramic. Actually, ceramic materials for brake pads are a sort of materials or a concept for formula. Their basic components can be ceramic fibers, steel-free structural materials, mineral fibers, Kevlar fibers, resin adhesive and copper fibers in small amount, its color appear be lighter than other formulations. The technological core is proportion between materials, use of modifying components and the treatment technology. All in all, before it called ceramic brake pads, it must pass the following technical indications: Low dust remains on brake rotors/ wheel Hubs; minimal wear to discs & friction materials itself; friction coefficients stable enough to stand from 100°C -400°C without obvious fading.
5- Why the markets rely on Ceramic brake pads?
A- Low to no metallic fibers, free of noise.
In fair average quality brake pads, metallic is the main functional material, they deliver strong stopping power, however, wear rate are large and not easy to control the brake noise. LAND FORSCHER’s ceramic materials, 528 DCI for cars & 518DCI for bus/trucks, are free of metallic fibers; avoid the screaming produced by brake friction & brake discs.
B- Steady brake friction coefficient
Friction coefficient is the most important performance indicator. A fair quality brake pads material will be easy to be influenced by high temperature and involve into a friction coefficient to sharp fading process. In practice, stopping power will be reduced, stopping distance will unwelcome be elongated. However, another condition, they maybe holding an unseasonable high stopping power, generated brake system locked, runaway the path, brake pads burn up, or other dangers.
LAND FORSCHER’S ceramic materials, 525DC for cars & 515DC for bus/trucks, offer a steady friction coefficient, FF grade (0.44-0.395). Guaranty the automotive a supper and steady brake performance.
C- LAND FORSCHER ceramic materials have excellent heat stability, good wearing resistance & low thermal conductivity.
As LAND FORSCHER’s tests, the mighty brake force will produce as much as 900 °C (even higher) high temperature in the ceramic friction surface, when stopping a high speed car. And the friction material surface will produce a perfect sintered layer, enhance friction properties and wear life.
D- Less thermal decay & fast recovery
Even the first generation ceramic material 611, 614, or the fourth generation ceramic material 528DCI, 518DCI, 525DC & 515DC, they all performance supper in even though the brake disc heat constantly at 650 °C. They still firmly out put the wonderful friction coefficient at around 0.45-0.55, ensuring good stops, protect a safety driving. LAND FORSCHER always making the best brake pads.
E- Comfortable pedal feeling
Noise level is an important factor among the comfortable tech indicators. Noise comes from the abnormal attrition between brake pads & discs. People in the cars, cannot feeling the noise when frequencies lower than 550HZ. Only when frequencies higher than 800HZ, it will be noticed by passengers. LAND FORSCHER set a higher level in noise indicators to control it lower than 550HZ. You will just enjoy your safety & ultra-quiet performance brakes.
F- Long life-span
Average quality brake pads’ (including some so-called “OEM brakes”) normally last around 20,000KM or less. But ceramic material 525DC for cars & 515DC for bus/trucks, will last around 50,000 to 60,000KM. Another hand, LAND FORSCHER adopt a particular antistatic component, the dust will very hard to adherence to the wheel hub, your brake system will always looks shine and fresh. It is a recessive benefits for you.
The article is original by LAND FORSCHER research team. April 20 2010
edit on 26-7-2013 by landforscher because: modify some spelling flaws





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