9/11 - Airport Security, Hijackers and a few anomalies that still pose questions?

reply to post by kidtwist

Does anyone else find it odd that airport security did not question the fact that 19 different people supposedly had 19 sets of blades that day, and none turned up at any crash sites?

Please tell us how you tell the difference between a hijackers utility knife and office utility knives?
Does Lowes put special emblems on theirs just for hijackers? You did know the investigators traced the purchase back to a particular Lowes didn't you?

Or does you investigation stop at conspiracy websites?

Originally posted by kidtwist
I was not directing it at you, you seem to be responding to a lot of comments I direct at other people thinking they are for you, rmember the apology you gave me for doing that, seems you forget which account you are logged into!

I know you weren't directing it at me, that's why I cut out all of the post other than the context needed for the answer. Please think these things through before rushing to post a reply.

The Naudets produced a DVD with their footage from that day, it contains a lot of 'behind the scenes' type stuff.

What has my age got to do with anything?! That old 'how old are you' trick eh, trying to belittle me!

Your desperate attempt to troll from different accounts has been exposed. You've been caught out many times now, so I'll just ignore you comments and trolling from now on!

I don't have multiple accounts, this is something entirely created in your mind. I'm asking how old you are because you are acting immaturely. You don't seem to be able to conduct a serious conversation, only try to shout your viewpoint above all others.

I frankly don't care whether you read what I write or not. It's clear that you have very little ability to distinguish fact from fiction.

Another poor thread from, as exponent says, an immature poster.

You demand a series of answers to questions based on misconceptions and falsehoods. You make a series of outlandish claims founded on ignorance and receive polite responses putting you right. Your reaction is to belittle your respondents and claim that you know better with no evidence whatsoever. It's unedifying.

reply to post by kidtwist


You are mistaken:

There was enough of time gap between the first 'hijacking' to warn the other planes, so not buying that rubbish.

9/11 attacks timeline in pictures

From Wikipedia:

en.wikipedia.org...


(Pertinent Excerpts)

8:13: Flight 11 has its last routine communication with the FAA's Boston Air Route Traffic Control Center.
8:14: Flight 11 fails to heed air traffic controller's instruction to climb to 35,000 feet. Aircraft is hijacked.
8:14: United Airlines Flight 175, another fully fueled Boeing 767, carrying 56 passengers and nine crew members, departs from Boston Logan airport, also bound for Los Angeles. Five hijackers are aboard.

8:20: American Airlines Flight 77, a Boeing 757 with 58 passengers and six crew members, departs from Washington Dulles International Airport in Fairfax and Loudoun Counties, Virginia, for Los Angeles. Five hijackers are aboard.

Now, note this:

8:37: Flight 175 confirms sighting of hijacked Flight 11 to flight controllers, 10 miles (16 km) to its south.

Because both AAL 11 and UAL 175 departed Boston, with the same destination (Los Angeles), they were originally Flight Planned on similar routings. But, UAL 175 lifted off from Boston 15 only minutes after AAL 11.

Now, understand that the crew of UAL 175 would have ZERO concern for themselves, since the concept of multiple, closely-timed hijackings simply would not enter their consciousness......until THEY were ambushed, as well.

Again, the timing of the cockpit ambushes.....between 15 to about 25 or 30 minutes after takeoff was typical...because that is about when the pilots have climbed well above 18,000 feet, on the way to cruise altitude....and especially on a morning departure, the F/As will at that point bring coffee or juice, or something (they call up and ask if we want anything)....this way, they can "forget" about the cockpit for a while, and focus on the passengers' beverage and meal service....then, they take time to prepare the crew meals (if scheduled on that particular flight). < < < THAT was typical before 9/11.....the "usual" timing of procedures is different, now.

I suggest a thorough reading of the Wiki article, for proper understanding. It encompasses neatly the actual recorded history, minute-by-minute.


This is also useful as a visual aid:

NTSB:
Recorded Radar Data Study

American Airlines Flight 11
United Airlines Flight 175
American Airlines Flight 77
United Airlines Flight 93


Further study material, and other pertinent documents, at this website:

9/11 Myths.com


I suggest taking a look and carefully reviewing ALL of the "Documents" (hyperlink Urls included above). As noted, the Documents numbers 1, 4 and 6 are very informative. Especially the Flight Data Recorder info from the only two FDRs that survived and were recovered....AAL 77 and UAL 93.

Here it is.....I am available to answer any of the technical information from this report, as it does require a certain amount of knowledge about the airplanes, and the way Flight Recorders (so-called "black boxes") operate:

Study of Autopilot, Navigation Equipment, and Fuel Consumption Activity
Based on United Airlines Flight 93 and American Airlines Flight 77
Digital Flight Data Recorder Information

reply to post by kidtwist



Incorrect again.....although it varied at every airline company, at MY airline each Flight Attendant WAS required to have a cockpit door key in his/her possession!:

Air Stewards do not carry cabin keys on them! Again, your opinion is well off the mark!

However, the protocol was for them not to use the key for entry, except in an emergency. Such as the unlikely event that both pilots became incapacitated.

The only accepted method for Flight Deck entry in normal operations was to call on the Interphone, and then use the accepted agreed-upon knock. This is briefed with each crew, or an airline had a "standard" knock pattern. The reason they would not use the key to enter without asking is due to the possibility of the pilots being pre-occupied and overly busy, for any reason....so as not to be overly distractive.

Other airlines had a single key secreted inside the passenger cabin. In those days, pre-9/11, there was a SINGLE cut of key that worked on virtually every airliner in the World. I know, because I had one (several, actually....just in case, because we were also required to carry a key).

Today, the "key" is a moot point. Modern doors are "different" now, and the procedures actually vary between companies....although there are certain standards mandated by the FAA (this applies to flight operated either by U.S. registered air carriers, or foreign carriers when operating within U.S. airspace).

These procedures are not fit for public disclosure.

Oh, and after 25+ years of airline experience, with far more hours of operation than any "average" business or pleasure traveler, I an assure you there were many times when the door was open, and a sudden charge by a determined individual would have been easily possible.....especially if they were intent on being vicious.

Originally posted by samkent
reply to post by kidtwist

 

You are being foolish.
If you put a blade to the neck of a stewardess they would have handed over the controls back then.
The ideals back then were to protect every life. Where as now days passengers are likely to say 'if you kill her we'll kill you'.

You didn't need to overpower each passenger.

Even today you could hijack a metro bus with a utility knife.

You're entitled to your opinion on the subject. If you put blade to a stewardess, you'd have a lot of have a go hero passengers jumping on you!

www.huffingtonpost.com...

If they can overpower a hijacker then it would have been possible pre 9/11.

www.albawaba.com...
"the door of the cockpit was locked according to regulations, he was not able to enter"

Another
www.foxnews.com...

If you google hijackings by year there are plenty pre 9/11 loads that got overpowered, so it does not matter when it is, people will always act the same, 9/11 or no 9/11. Hijackings have been going on for years, most fail because they are overpowered.

Originally posted by samkent
reply to post by kidtwist

 

Does anyone else find it odd that airport security did not question the fact that 19 different people supposedly had 19 sets of blades that day, and none turned up at any crash sites?

Please tell us how you tell the difference between a hijackers utility knife and office utility knives?
Does Lowes put special emblems on theirs just for hijackers? You did know the investigators traced the purchase back to a particular Lowes didn't you?

Or does you investigation stop at conspiracy websites?

You what?!

Originally posted by exponent

Originally posted by kidtwist
I was not directing it at you, you seem to be responding to a lot of comments I direct at other people thinking they are for you, rmember the apology you gave me for doing that, seems you forget which account you are logged into!

I know you weren't directing it at me, that's why I cut out all of the post other than the context needed for the answer. Please think these things through before rushing to post a reply.

The Naudets produced a DVD with their footage from that day, it contains a lot of 'behind the scenes' type stuff.

What has my age got to do with anything?! That old 'how old are you' trick eh, trying to belittle me!

Your desperate attempt to troll from different accounts has been exposed. You've been caught out many times now, so I'll just ignore you comments and trolling from now on!

I don't have multiple accounts, this is something entirely created in your mind. I'm asking how old you are because you are acting immaturely. You don't seem to be able to conduct a serious conversation, only try to shout your viewpoint above all others.

I frankly don't care whether you read what I write or not. It's clear that you have very little ability to distinguish fact from fiction.

You act in a way that indicates you have multiple accounts, that is twice now you have replied to me responding to someone elses's question, thinking the question was aimed at you. Don't worry, you'll get caught out by mods eventually.

I didnt ask for Nadet behind the scenes, I asked for the footage from before it cuts to the 1st plane, and not the street footage before the first plane, but the tape rolling up to that point, continuously. Do you have a linky?

Originally posted by TrickoftheShade
Another poor thread from, as exponent says, an immature poster.

You demand a series of answers to questions based on misconceptions and falsehoods. You make a series of outlandish claims founded on ignorance and receive polite responses putting you right. Your reaction is to belittle your respondents and claim that you know better with no evidence whatsoever. It's unedifying.

Ha, immature, just because you disagree with me I'm immature eh! You and your buddies cannot debate like adults, there are exceptions, some dont result to childish name calling, but most of your buddies do, including yourself, so call me what you want, but you need to tidy up your own act and look at your own behavior before calling other people immature.

Originally posted by PluPerfect
reply to post by kidtwist

 

You are mistaken:

There was enough of time gap between the first 'hijacking' to warn the other planes, so not buying that rubbish.

9/11 attacks timeline in pictures

From Wikipedia:

en.wikipedia.org...


(Pertinent Excerpts)

8:13: Flight 11 has its last routine communication with the FAA's Boston Air Route Traffic Control Center.
8:14: Flight 11 fails to heed air traffic controller's instruction to climb to 35,000 feet. Aircraft is hijacked.
8:14: United Airlines Flight 175, another fully fueled Boeing 767, carrying 56 passengers and nine crew members, departs from Boston Logan airport, also bound for Los Angeles. Five hijackers are aboard.

8:20: American Airlines Flight 77, a Boeing 757 with 58 passengers and six crew members, departs from Washington Dulles International Airport in Fairfax and Loudoun Counties, Virginia, for Los Angeles. Five hijackers are aboard.

Now, note this:

8:37: Flight 175 confirms sighting of hijacked Flight 11 to flight controllers, 10 miles (16 km) to its south.

Because both AAL 11 and UAL 175 departed Boston, with the same destination (Los Angeles), they were originally Flight Planned on similar routings. But, UAL 175 lifted off from Boston 15 only minutes after AAL 11.

Now, understand that the crew of UAL 175 would have ZERO concern for themselves, since the concept of multiple, closely-timed hijackings simply would not enter their consciousness......until THEY were ambushed, as well.

Again, the timing of the cockpit ambushes.....between 15 to about 25 or 30 minutes after takeoff was typical...because that is about when the pilots have climbed well above 18,000 feet, on the way to cruise altitude....and especially on a morning departure, the F/As will at that point bring coffee or juice, or something (they call up and ask if we want anything)....this way, they can "forget" about the cockpit for a while, and focus on the passengers' beverage and meal service....then, they take time to prepare the crew meals (if scheduled on that particular flight). < < < THAT was typical before 9/11.....the "usual" timing of procedures is different, now.

I suggest a thorough reading of the Wiki article, for proper understanding. It encompasses neatly the actual recorded history, minute-by-minute.


This is also useful as a visual aid:

NTSB:
Recorded Radar Data Study

American Airlines Flight 11
United Airlines Flight 175
American Airlines Flight 77
United Airlines Flight 93


Further study material, and other pertinent documents, at this website:

9/11 Myths.com


I suggest taking a look and carefully reviewing ALL of the "Documents" (hyperlink Urls included above). As noted, the Documents numbers 1, 4 and 6 are very informative. Especially the Flight Data Recorder info from the only two FDRs that survived and were recovered....AAL 77 and UAL 93.

Here it is.....I am available to answer any of the technical information from this report, as it does require a certain amount of knowledge about the airplanes, and the way Flight Recorders (so-called "black boxes") operate:

Study of Autopilot, Navigation Equipment, and Fuel Consumption Activity
Based on United Airlines Flight 93 and American Airlines Flight 77
Digital Flight Data Recorder Information

I take it you have not seen the intercepted video, it has all the ATC audio, that will put you right on many things you are confused about, and as for 9/11 myths, that site is a perp site, anything that comes from there is disinfo and I cannot take anyone seriously that uses that as a source of reference!

Originally posted by PluPerfect
reply to post by kidtwist

 

Incorrect again.....although it varied at every airline company, at MY airline each Flight Attendant WAS required to have a cockpit door key in his/her possession!:

Air Stewards do not carry cabin keys on them! Again, your opinion is well off the mark!

However, the protocol was for them not to use the key for entry, except in an emergency. Such as the unlikely event that both pilots became incapacitated.

The only accepted method for Flight Deck entry in normal operations was to call on the Interphone, and then use the accepted agreed-upon knock. This is briefed with each crew, or an airline had a "standard" knock pattern. The reason they would not use the key to enter without asking is due to the possibility of the pilots being pre-occupied and overly busy, for any reason....so as not to be overly distractive.

Other airlines had a single key secreted inside the passenger cabin. In those days, pre-9/11, there was a SINGLE cut of key that worked on virtually every airliner in the World. I know, because I had one (several, actually....just in case, because we were also required to carry a key).

Today, the "key" is a moot point. Modern doors are "different" now, and the procedures actually vary between companies....although there are certain standards mandated by the FAA (this applies to flight operated either by U.S. registered air carriers, or foreign carriers when operating within U.S. airspace).

These procedures are not fit for public disclosure.

Oh, and after 25+ years of airline experience, with far more hours of operation than any "average" business or pleasure traveler, I an assure you there were many times when the door was open, and a sudden charge by a determined individual would have been easily possible.....especially if they were intent on being vicious.

edit on 4-6-2012 by PluPerfect because: (no reason given)

Like I said before, your credentials cannot be verified, and anyone can make up what they want on the internet, I've seen a lot of copy and paste terms and info in you replies, and the fact you made the mistake about the seat belts says to me your credentials are not what you claim them to be.

If you quote from 9/11 myths as a reference source how do you expect to be taken seriously, it's a perp disinfo site, miht as well be quoting from the Beano comic!

reply to post by kidtwist


The funny part is, PLENTY of us have offered up proof of our credentials...provided that people like you would jump a hoop or two for us to be able to protect our personal information. Have even gone to the point of getting a pilot friend offer to fly a truther to where I live so I could show him the "goods". And when it comes down to it, the chickenpoops welch everytime.

I could care less what you think. You can post all the crap that you think proves your point and the sad truth is, your "sound" bites do not come close to reality. Prior to 9/11, hijackers were rarely overpowered and as has been pointed out to you, airline procedures were to cooperate to the point of getting the jet safely on the ground. Yes, there are some....very few...examples of hijackers being jumped, but those are the exception to the rule and it NEVER happened when there was more than two hijackers....at least not that I can recall off the top of my head.

You talk about hand to hand combat in the cockpit and just show how little you know about the human psyche. If YOU were sitting on an airliner and I pulled a knife and cut a flight attendant's throat right in front of you, you would be like 95 percent of the public and wet yourself on the spot. Its called terror, and it freezes most people. Thats why the hijackers were so quick to stab someone...to scare the rest of the people into freezing/cowering.

Oh, and to address your complaint that we make statements without backing sources...

www.helium.com...

The Mayor did not say it was Flight 93. He said a 767 (Delta 1989) had made an emergency landing. It was the screw ups in the media that said it was Flight 93 (a 757)

And another...

256.com...

Stick to the minor leagues..

reply to post by kidtwist


Oh, brother!!

I take it you have not seen the intercepted video, it has all the ATC audio, that will put you right on many things you are confused about....

What "intercepted" video are you referring to? I want to know exactly what you mean, so that I can put you right!

.... and as for 9/11 myths, that site is a perp site...

What a garbage claim.....just because that site tells the truth? And, shows that the many so-called "9/11 conspiracy" sites are spewing nonsense?

Oh, by the way.....the *9/11 Myths* page that I linked (did you even read the links?? Would have taken the better part of a day to fully digest them all)....those links had nothing to do with *9/11 Myths*....they were all FOIA files, and *9/11 Myths* merely hosted them for everyone's convenience at finding them in one location.

SO, once you read through them all (Note: There is a file with the full ATC transcripts....see how well that matches with this "intercept video" you mentioned).....once you absorb all of that factual information, go back to any number of the crack-pot "9/11 conspiracy" websites, and see how they (those sites) have deluded so many people, for so long, with their combinations of outright lies, mis-understood "guesses" and totally messed up incorrect interpretations of the actual facts.

Originally posted by vipertech0596

www.helium.com...

crew members reported a man on board who would not stop talking on his cell phone, despite orders from the crew.

That's funny. I thought that was suppose to be impossible.

reply to post by kidtwist


Sure...this is true.....however, let me give you a suggestion....first, your quote:

Like I said before, your credentials cannot be verified, and anyone can make up what they want on the internet...

You stated that you have a lot of time on airliners, due to business travel? Well, next time, stop by the cockpit and have a chat with the pilots. During the boarding process the door is usually open.....may be best to inform the Flight Attendant at the door first, because naturally as an "unknown" they will be wary. But, many regular passengers are also aviation, and camera hobbyists....take a camera, or just explain that you are interested in aviation and airplanes. Then, you can chat up the crew, and ask THEM about the out-dated Flight Deck door key policy. Check my facts, that way.

( PS...I find it ironic that you wrote "...anyone can make up what they want to on the internet...." Because, that is exactly what is occurring on those disgusting "9/11 conspiracy" websites! )

.... I've seen a lot of copy and paste terms and info in you replies....

Ermmmm......that is how it's done here, at ATS! In order to support what one posts, it is backed up with facts from external sources!

.... and the fact you made the mistake about the seat belts says to me your credentials are not what you claim them to be.

"Mistake about the seat belts...."??

What "mistake", pray tell?

Originally posted by kidtwist
You act in a way that indicates you have multiple accounts, that is twice now you have replied to me responding to someone elses's question, thinking the question was aimed at you. Don't worry, you'll get caught out by mods eventually.

No, it's once. Glad to see that you apply the same standards of evidence (whatever you feel is true) to everything. I know you won't believe me, but that's because you have already formed your own opinion and it's clear from how you argue that you hold your own opinion above all facts.

I didnt ask for Nadet behind the scenes, I asked for the footage from before it cuts to the 1st plane, and not the street footage before the first plane, but the tape rolling up to that point, continuously. Do you have a linky?

Why would there be continuous tape rolling? They had barely arrived on site by the time the first plane impacted. You realise this was actual videotape too right?

Originally posted by kidtwist
...., and anyone can make up what they want on the internet,

It would be helpful if you keep that in mind the next time you visit a 911 conspiracy website.

Like others I questioned your age as well as I read through this thread. Do not take that as an insult because I am not trying to be insulting but you just give the impression that you never flew before 911 or have no idea how different things were before then.

Originally posted by Classified Info

Originally posted by kidtwist
...., and anyone can make up what they want on the internet,

It would be helpful if you keep that in mind the next time you visit a 911 conspiracy website.

Like others I questioned your age as well as I read through this thread. Do not take that as an insult because I am not trying to be insulting but you just give the impression that you never flew before 911 or have no idea how different things were before then.

Oh, we have a new troll here to attack members that seek the truth! Maybe you should read the rules here before yougo any further, because you broke quite a few of them with this post.

Nice try at a personal attack, but you have shown who is the immature one with this attemped attack, as did your fellow chums who also tried to flame me fro having a debate. If you dont agree with what other members write then at least debate with some substance, resulting to pathetic insults just makes you look stupid, and no one will ever take you seriously if you behave like that all the time.

I suspect you have another account here, because your wording and behaviour is familiar, which makes it even more pathetic.

reply to post by kidtwist


Take it anyway you want to and I am sorry you feel that way. Maybe your screen name has something to do with it.

Your statements on this thread has already shown your ignorance as to what is common knowledge to people who were adults and flew back in 2001---the cockpit door was not always locked as you claimed and you could bring a small knife on board with you. Seems like a dead giveaway to me.

As far as me having multiple user accounts---how many people are you going to accuse of that? This thread is not even 2 pages long and I think I make number three.