What exactly DO we want?

What do I want? My central concern is and has always been, the meaning of life. I searched and searched. High and low, in and out of churches, temples, forests, streams and seedy city streets, with a lonely heart I looked for meaning to this life and came up empty. I have determined after much research on the subject, that life has no meaning, none that we can discern from our present perspective and in our current condition. There are no external explainations, one must delve inside oneself whereby introspection will reveal that lifes meaning is a blank canvas and we are the only ones competent enough to paint upon our canvas. Life is Absurd and I say embrace the absurd. You must create your own meaning, you are the artist.-PEACE

Originally posted by HEYJOSE
What do I want? My central concern is and has always been, the meaning of life. I searched and searched. High and low, in and out of churches, temples, forests, streams and seedy city streets, with a lonely heart I looked for meaning to this life and came up empty. I have determined after much research on the subject, that life has no meaning, none that we can discern from our present perspective and in our current condition. There are no external explainations, one must delve inside oneself whereby introspection will reveal that lifes meaning is a blank canvas and we are the only ones competent enough to paint upon our canvas. Life is Absurd and I say embrace the absurd. You must create your own meaning, you are the artist.-PEACE

Inspirational insight! How are you choosing to paint your canvas?
Do we have a "collective canvas" as well? How can we come together and paint it to bring contentment to as many as possible? (happiness isn't always possible for large groups, but contentment is)

Originally posted by HEYJOSE
What do I want? My central concern is and has always been, the meaning of life. I searched and searched. High and low, in and out of churches, temples, forests, streams and seedy city streets, with a lonely heart I looked for meaning to this life and came up empty. I have determined after much research on the subject, that life has no meaning, none that we can discern from our present perspective and in our current condition. There are no external explainations, one must delve inside oneself whereby introspection will reveal that lifes meaning is a blank canvas and we are the only ones competent enough to paint upon our canvas. Life is Absurd and I say embrace the absurd. You must create your own meaning, you are the artist.-PEACE

Looking inside yourself is sometimes one of the scariest things you can do, but yes, the meaning of life can only be found inside of one's self. If you live everyday to be the best that you can possibly be, that is all you can do. Some will change society, some will change one person, both are equally important.

Originally posted by BubbaJoe
"The Jungle" has absolutely nothing to do with telepathy, it is a story about the disgraces of the meat packing industry in the late 1800's. Sometimes wikipedia is not your friend. If you truly believe the story to truly be made up, think about the scandal of "Pink Slime" today.

Yea no #, I'm talking about a completely different book. Read the freaking post, it's called Mental Radio not The Jungle.

Upton Sinclair - Mental Radio

Pay attention.

Yea well that same guy also has a book claiming his wife was telepathic.

^^ That means I was talking about a different book ^^

I really get sick of pointing out obvious things on this forum. Maybe ATS should be a picture book so everyone can understand it?

Originally posted by RSF77

Originally posted by BubbaJoe
"The Jungle" has absolutely nothing to do with telepathy, it is a story about the disgraces of the meat packing industry in the late 1800's. Sometimes wikipedia is not your friend. If you truly believe the story to truly be made up, think about the scandal of "Pink Slime" today.

Yea no #, I'm talking about a completely different book. Read the freaking post, it's called Mental Radio not The Jungle.

Upton Sinclair - Mental Radio

Pay attention, you aren't nearly as smart as you are trying to sound like.

Yea well that same guy also has a book claiming his wife was telepathic.

^^ That means I was talking about a different book ^^

edit on 5-6-2012 by RSF77 because: (no reason given)

Really a different book, no kidding, I couldn't have figured that out, thank you for pointing that out. Instead of challenging the point I was making, you are going to discredit the author, typical disinformation stuff. If you seriously want to challenge my intelligence, bring it on. This thread wasn't supposed to be like this, but some people never realize where they have been shortchanged in life.

Lets get back to the positives...
How are we going to make the changes we've suggested? What method are we going to use?
Some have been listed, are there more? What's the most feasible? What's the fasted and easist way to get there?

Please, if you really really really need to argue, please take it to U2U, we want to keep this thread as "clean" as possible from the bickering and fighting. Please, for the good of all, we're all adults here and we can do this, lets put the differences aside and move forward.
Thanks in advance!

Originally posted by BubbaJoe
Really a different book, no kidding, I couldn't have figured that out, thank you for pointing that out. Instead of challenging the point I was making, you are going to discredit the author, typical disinformation stuff. If you seriously want to challenge my intelligence, bring it on. This thread wasn't supposed to be like this, but some people never realize where they have been shortchanged in life.

No sherlock, actually I was lending credit to Upton Sinclair:

It's not without a sense of irony that book actually seems like a genuine study. In fact Albert Einstein himself sort of vouched for it:

Read Online - Upton Sinclair, Mental Radio

The preface was written by Albert Einstein who praised Sinclair's observation and writing abilities as well as good faith and reliability. Einstein writes "The results of the telepathic experiments carefully and plainly set forth in this book stand surely beyond that which a nature investigator holds to be thinkable. On the other hand, it is out of the question in the case of so conscientious an observer and writer as Upton Sinclair that he is carrying on a conscious deception of the reading world; his good faith and dependability are not to be doubted."
Wiki - Mental Radio

Read it and decide for yourself, you might just find it interesting, I did. Regardless, Mr. Sinclair was truly an interesting and intelligent individual, I've spent a lot of time reading about him. This book, Mental Radio, is one of those pseudo scientific things that has been forgotten in the pages of time.

Wiki - Upton Sinclair

Like I said, PAY ATTENTION.

You aren't understanding anything. LET ME QUOTE THIS AGAIN:

Regardless, Mr. Sinclair was truly an interesting and intelligent individual, I've spent a lot of time reading about him.

You say:

Instead of challenging the point I was making, you are going to discredit the author, typical disinformation stuff.

Do you understand how you are not making sense?

Am I speaking a different language than everyone else and I don't realize it or what?

reply to post by PurpleChiten
Sorry, my mind was just blown by the inability of this person to understand words. It's a bit irritating.

Originally posted by RSF77

reply to post by PurpleChiten
Sorry, my mind was just blown by the inability of this person to understand words. It's a bit irritating.

edit on 5-6-2012 by RSF77 because: (no reason given)

It's easy to get frustrated.... sometimes, delivery is everything
If someone is being deliberately obtuse, explaining in a calm, caring way will show your patience and intelligence.
If someone actually was mistaken, explaining in a calm, caring way will show you as being patient and kind
If someone is being snarky, explaining in a calm, caring way can show you to be unaffected by the attacks
If someone is being defensvie, explaining in a calm, caring way can break down the wall put up between you
....we are always judged by our own actions more than by the actions of others. They give us the opportunity, we choose what to do with it


... easier said than done!!! Maybe I should print that out and put it on my own screen to remind me!!!!


Sometimes people really want to participate but don't know exactly what to say, so they find something, anything that they can relate to in some way or clarify or expound on and it accidently comes off in the wrong way... then feelings get hurt.
Lets let bygones be bygones on this one? Give the benefit of the doubt that perhaps it was an error in communication that grew into something it wasn't meant to be and maybe give one another that coveted "second chance"?
Thank you both ahead of time for trying to do so, it may produce amazing results!

Originally posted by habitforming
reply to post by PurpleChiten

 

Just to note, I was not just being snarky. I was sincere. We have become a country of uneducated morons. Simple things like grammar rules are practically nonexistent. No one even uses the word "I" correctly anymore, they just always use it and it kills me. Other countries are flying by us in science and math while we have huge groups of powerful people arguing that we need more God in our schools. God does not invent the next iPad.

I want us to be smarter, stronger, healthier, faster, richer than all other nations. I see a huge waste in tax dollars spent on crap that benefits no one while schools suffer more and more.

I want better education to be accessible to more people.

Yes, we are a country of uneducated people although I wouldn't call them morons, I'd just call them MIS-educated by design. Public schools are a disgrace in this country, primarily teaching students WHAT to think rather than HOW to think.

Another one of the things I'd like to see, is more people pulling the plugs on the TV sets. Instead they rush out to buy ever bigger, better TVs with wider screens and surround sound, never noticing that the crap programming is designed to tell them WHAT to think, not HOW to think.

Garbage in, garbage out.

The dominent language in the US has now become cyber text where "you are" is spelled "u r". God help us, even adults are learning this crazy new language. And while we pour hundreds of thousands of dollars into each child's education k-12, the US ranks at the low end in academic testing for industrialized countries. Their kids are learning to read, write and speak not only their own languages, but also OURS to a higher degree than we ask of our own kids. And then we treat them with our typical arrogance.

So I remain a proponent of home schooling, not necessarily because the parents are qualified to teach, but because with the use of a good teaching program (there are many available for all grade levels), the parents are given one more opportunity to learn so much of what the public schools neglected in their own run through the system. There is also the bonding potential between parents and children.

Many of the objections to home schooling, when you boil it down to the fundamental level, are more to do with a basic disinterest in the welfare of their children than inability. Shove the kid out the door in the morning and dread summer vacations ....

And we expect WHAT in return?

I disagree. Although the homeschooling might benefit the parent who didn't apply themselves or bother to learn, it would be harmful to the child who may be more motivated or capable than the parent was at that age.
Many want to attack education but ignore the fact that you can lead a horse to water but not make it drink.
IF a student is ready and willing to learn, they can learn and will learn in the public schools. It's the students who don't want to learn and want to prevent anyone else from learning that cause the issues. If you have an entire class of them, then nobody will learn anything and the parent wouldn't be capable of homeschooling them either.
If the parents did their initial job of parenting, then education would be much easier and much more effective.
The parents who don't do their job make it harder on everyone else, other parents, teachers, students and the community at large.
Sorry, but I've seen some pretty pathetic parents out there and they are always the first to scream "HOMESCHOOL", do it for a couple of weeks, then send the kid back to public school becasue they don't want to invest the time and energy (which was the problem in the first place)

reply to post by PurpleChiten


I probably didn't make myself very clear on the "benefits" being mainly for parents, that is barely a side issue and certainly doesn't apply across the board. And I don't want anyone to think I"m trying to set myself up as some sort of guru on what's best for every student. But ....

Would you agree that schools are failing in their original intent and are spending way too much money per student to be allowed to continue to fail as they are? And would you agree that schools have always been far too politicized, molding children to believe in whatever is currently desired by the authorities? At one time that was radical Christianity and nationalism. That morphed into radical environmentalism and moved on from there to teaching radical globalism. Once there was phonics, then there was see-say, then there was no child left behind and AMES testing that many teachers can't pass. But teachers aren’t the really big issue for me, its the text books.

One of my favorite quotes of all time is, "if you were the government, would you teach the students how to control you"? Or would you teach them that they are to be controlled by anyone the government tells them has authority?

But parents give schools tacit authority to teach and trust that their kids are getting good information. Right?

In 1973 an American history text book was found that devoted more attention to Marilyn Monroe than to George Washington.

And then there was my own personal experience, in the mid 90s I badgered my granddaughter, who was in middle school at the time, to bring her social studies book to me so I could review it. She had to sneak the book out in her backpack because the teacher wouldn’t permit it to leave the classroom. Figure that. Anyway, I wrote down much of what was in there and she snuck it back to school the following day without being detected. So I just spent an hour tracking down those notes and I won’t load the thread down with it, but the book was called “The World, Past and Present”, published in 1991, and it contained the entire preamble to the WORLD Constitution as well as excerpts from the UN mandate on the rights of the child, without giving so much as one mention to the US Constitution. There wasn’t one quote from a founding father, but it quoted Marx at great length, even going so far as having an entire chapter devoted to his teachings. And granted, this little adventure only confirmed what I had expected, but I still saw red for the next several days. Well actually, I’m still seeing red over it.

In 2001, Time magazine reported that textbook mistakes since 1961 was fifty-four feet long. So for 40 years students were taught thousands of faulty facts. And we wonder today why no one can ever agree on what the facts ARE.

I could go on, and on, but that’s not the topic of this thread, so I won’t nag about it further at this time.

reply to post by frazzle


Although curriculum is usually framed by the textbooks chosen, that isn't always the case. Many teachers pull from various resources outside of the realm of the textbook so the students get a more well rounded education. Granted, in larger cities, they do try to form a cookie-cutter pattern, I have seen it happen. But, we need to keep in mind that not all schools exist in large cities, not all schools use the textbook to define the curriculum, some use the curriculum to determine the textbook.
Also, with homeschooling, in order to be effective, you end up choosing some curriculum or another that is developed by someone else, so it's also doing the things you have stated, perhaps to a greater extent since the parents are not professional eduators and haven't been exposed to and taught how to expand parts, add parts, omit parts and so on.
It's more of asking "what mould do I want to force my child into" than saying you don't want them forced into a mould. For those who are interested in giving their children the best possible education they can, they need to collaborate with the schools instead of abandoning them. Most teachers are more than happy to have parents visit class (unless there is a documeted criminal history that would pose a threat), so there is no reason why the parents who wish to participate more fully in their child's education can't do that.
There are negatives on all the different extremes that exist out there but when we gather more toward the middle, away from those extremes, we get fewer negatives. The more concepts and approaches that are involved, the stronger the educational experience is going to be. I find homeschooling to be cheating the child in more ways than it benefits them and hold to my opinion that homeschooling's only purpose is a place to put the students who cannot function in any other type of program offered by schools. It's a "joke" in 75% of the cases and is detrimental. In perhaps 10% of the cases, it is successful but that depends entirely on how much effort and work the parent puts into implementing it, gathering many varieties of sources, devoting their life to it basically. Yet, a great majority of the parents that tout homeschooling are incapable of doing so and end up doing more damage than good.
Instead of worrying about getting their children involved in at least two extracurricular sporting activities for each day of the week, they should be looking at extra academic opportunities on top of what 's provided at school and giving their time and energy to the education of their child so their child can be a better person then the parent is. Isn't that the goal and dream for our children? To make them better than what we are? To make them go further, to reach beyond, to open the doors that were closed to us?

You are very much right about the political side of schools though. There are entirely too many administrators and not enough teachers. They misuse the funding on a regular basis and need to be seriously revamped. Yet, there are still amazing teachers inside the classrooms (as well as some who are horrible). The amazing ones more than make up for the lesser ones and definitely outweigh the concept of homeschooling.

Originally posted by frazzle
And then there was my own personal experience, in the mid 90s I badgered my granddaughter, who was in middle school at the time, to bring her social studies book to me so I could review it. She had to sneak the book out in her backpack because the teacher wouldn’t permit it to leave the classroom. Figure that. Anyway, I wrote down much of what was in there and she snuck it back to school the following day without being detected. So I just spent an hour tracking down those notes and I won’t load the thread down with it, but the book was called “The World, Past and Present”, published in 1991, and it contained the entire preamble to the WORLD Constitution as well as excerpts from the UN mandate on the rights of the child, without giving so much as one mention to the US Constitution. There wasn’t one quote from a founding father, but it quoted Marx at great length, even going so far as having an entire chapter devoted to his teachings. And granted, this little adventure only confirmed what I had expected, but I still saw red for the next several days. Well actually, I’m still seeing red over it.

Please notice that it was a Social Studies book, not a US History book. There are many aspects of social studies and not all those aspects focus on US History. In fact, the title, "The World, Past and Present" would imply that it focused on what was going on in the world and the only body that influences all governments in the world is, indeed, the UN. If it had been titled "The United States, Past and Present", I would completely agree with you.
I'm not familiar with the text as Social Studies isn't one of my interests, but perhaps you should question the school board concerning the text if you have an issue with it. Chances are, there is a sub office with the 'director of curriculum' or something of the sort with 3 or 4 sub offices to it and 6 or 7 secretaries and staff dedicated to it and so on and they picked the book instead of asking the teachers anything at all or even having any kind of experience or educational degrees in the area.
Most of the problems aren't with the "school" or with the "teachers" or the "classrooms" but with the administration that is much too large and much too complex in structure to perform its duties. When you have too many people in administrative positions, it destroys the school. They need to be restructured and cut in half three times over.
A school district doesn't need more than a Superintendent, a School Board, a technology team and a handfull of advisors, not two or three office buildings full of them like you see in the larger cities or 15-20 people in them like you see in the small towns.
If the administration of schools were to be revamped and corrected, it would probably take care of about 80% of the problems in any school out there. The other 20% could then be addressed more effectively.

reply to post by PurpleChiten


Of course I’m aware that this was a social studies course, not American history and it would be ridiculous to think any one book could contain the entire world’s past and present, anyway, even excluding the US. But that’s not the point. My point is that this was a very thick book that focused heavily on Marx and communism in subtly positive ways, while national forms of government were equally negatively portrayed. And yes, I know they’ve made the UN the new nanny of the world to keep us all from killing each other and that’s how its taught in school, but who can't see that the theory just isn’t working out in reality as advertised? Bigger is seldom better, its just … um bigger.

But who to complain to about a school book? That’s a good question. I got the run around at the school, but there are these things called “adoption committees” and their only job is to select text books. They say input from the public is welcome and that meetings are advertised, although I’ve never seen such a notice. But here’s a little blurb about what these committees do:

In "adoption" states, a central textbook committee designated by the state education bureaucracy selects the textbooks schools may purchase with public money. The reviewers often enforce so-called sensitivity guidelines by demanding publishers change wording and content. Because of the size of their combined market, the adoption states effectively dictate textbook content nationwide, given the vested interests of the publishers in selling their wares as widely as possible. news.heartland.org...

You’re absolutely right, it isn’t teachers or even local administrators, they all run themselves ragged trying to keep up with the federal bureaucracy that dictates to the states, counties and cities every little detail of how they must operate, which gums up the works for local administrations, teachers and students alike. The department of education must spend a bloody fortune on gum because all the money disappears into their bubble gum machine and none of it reappears to cover even the cost of a teacher’s classroom supplies, that’s out of pocket. But they apparently do it all in the name of uniformity and if a uniformly excellent education was what they were accomplishing I’d be all for it, but that’s not how bureaucracies work, and this one isn’t about to sit still for a revamp or a correction. They have the power and they intend to keep it. That’s why Ron Paul’s position on defunding DOE is the only possible way to eliminate that 80% of the problems you were talking about. THEN we could work on the other 20%.

And that’s also a big part of the reason I prefer homeschooling, at least in the current situation, it takes the bureaucratic BS right out of the learning process. Besides, the only way to lodge a serious complaint about any kind of operation is to stop using it. Of course nobody knows how many millions of students would have to be pulled out of the system before they even noticed their customer base had shrunk.

So to boil it all down, what I want and what we need is for our kids to be taught the truth, ugly though it may be, about the world's past and our present, real US history and real science as opposed to junk science, as well as every other topic they study and to leave the feel good stuff for extracurricular and after school programs. Just the FACTS. Otherwise our kids will never be able to compete in that giant global ... market.

I hope I haven’t chased everyone off from your very excellent thread.

For parents and families, although the book you mentioned is no longer there due to the number of years ago that it happened, if you have textbooks that you want to comment about and try to make a difference in, here's a site where you can put up a review. The curriculum committes often use the reviews to decide on a textbook and it could help to prevent adoption of one that wasn't up to educational snuff, so to speak.
reviewmytextbooks.org...

also, if you go to the publisher's website, you can review them and offer comments as well. As taxpayers, we do have the right to review textbooks and offer our input.

Originally posted by PurpleChiten
For parents and families, although the book you mentioned is no longer there due to the number of years ago that it happened, if you have textbooks that you want to comment about and try to make a difference in, here's a site where you can put up a review. The curriculum committes often use the reviews to decide on a textbook and it could help to prevent adoption of one that wasn't up to educational snuff, so to speak.
reviewmytextbooks.org...

also, if you go to the publisher's website, you can review them and offer comments as well. As taxpayers, we do have the right to review textbooks and offer our input.

The site you linked is regarding college level text books. By the time a student reaches that level their basic understanding has already been set and their minds have either been opened ~ or warped, as the case may be.

So I went looking for public review opportunities for middle school text books and found absolutely none. But I am including a link to show who does control the content of the books:

www.enviroliteracy.org...
"The full report includes background information on the current science education market and available energy-related materials (primarily at the middle school level); the results of our energy content review within a representative sample of middle school textbooks; and suggestions for how policy-makers, adoption committees, and teachers can further encourage student development of energy literacy. "

This is also an excellent example of how special interest groups drive text book content. One wonders if any of these experts have ever spent any quality time in the environment they expound upon to children who, likewise, have never had an opportunity to personally experience. Then these students go on to college and then to jobs that often truly mess up the environment that they only understand from the context of the written word, as well as the minds of another generation.

I lived for many years in the high country of Arizona and watched the ignorant destruction of nature caused by people "who read a book" ~ many of them lawyers.

Originally posted by frazzle
The site you linked is regarding college level text books. By the time a student reaches that level their basic understanding has already been set and their minds have either been opened ~ or warped, as the case may be.

Oh, I apologize, I didn't look at details, just wanted to provide an example of what kind of feedback was possible.

So I went looking for public review opportunities for middle school text books and found absolutely none. But I am including a link to show who does control the content of the books:

It would probably take some digging to find the lower level textbook sites. I know they're out there but haven't looked at them for quite some time. Thanks for pointing it out, I should have ensured the site I gave was applicable to the level we were discussing.

www.enviroliteracy.org...
"The full report includes background information on the current science education market and available energy-related materials (primarily at the middle school level); the results of our energy content review within a representative sample of middle school textbooks; and suggestions for how policy-makers, adoption committees, and teachers can further encourage student development of energy literacy. "

This is also an excellent example of how special interest groups drive text book content. One wonders if any of these experts have ever spent any quality time in the environment they expound upon to children who, likewise, have never had an opportunity to personally experience. Then these students go on to college and then to jobs that often truly mess up the environment that they only understand from the context of the written word, as well as the minds of another generation.

I lived for many years in the high country of Arizona and watched the ignorant destruction of nature caused by people "who read a book" ~ many of them lawyers.

I know that when it comes time to adopt new text books that the companies often flood the teachers and administrators who are making the choice with review materials as well as "bonus offers" to influence their decisions such as free teacher editions and toolkits, discounts when ordering in bulk and other incentives. You are probably very correct that the special interest groups of all kids from every possible venue feed into the publishers and effect what is contained as well.
The process of production and selection has become so overwhelmed that the quality has decreased greatly.

No no no, never apologise. I wouldn't have gone looking for other examples if not for yours. Just because we're coming at this discussion from different view points doesn't mean apologies are ever necessary, how can people ever reach consensus, or at least mutual understanding if they don't talk about those differences?

You speak of bonus offers and my mind immediately pops over to the medical industry and doctors who are "bonused" for prescribing the latest new wonder drug to patients who don't even realize they're being used as lab rats.

What these experts try to do is put us into comfort zones designed to shut off our critical thinking capabilities.

reply to post by PurpleChiten

There are negatives on all the different extremes that exist out there but when we gather more toward the middle, away from those extremes, we get fewer negatives. The more concepts and approaches that are involved, the stronger the educational experience is going to be. I find homeschooling to be cheating the child in more ways than it benefits them and hold to my opinion that homeschooling's only purpose is a place to put the students who cannot function in any other type of program offered by schools. It's a "joke" in 75% of the cases and is detrimental. In perhaps 10% of the cases, it is successful but that depends entirely on how much effort and work the parent puts into implementing it, gathering many varieties of sources, devoting their life to it basically. Yet, a great majority of the parents that tout homeschooling are incapable of doing so and end up doing more damage than good.

Instead of worrying about getting their children involved in at least two extracurricular sporting activities for each day of the week, they should be looking at extra academic opportunities on top of what 's provided at school and giving their time and energy to the education of their child so their child can be a better person then the parent is. Isn't that the goal and dream for our children? To make them better than what we are? To make them go further, to reach beyond, to open the doors that were closed to us?

Oh wow, I totally missed this post. I agree wholeheartedly that if parents are even considering homeschooling they must FIRST understand it isn't a lark or just a form of protest against "the man", its a committment and damn hard work. I've known quite a few homeschool families that have done an outstanding job at it and were involved in all kinds of support groups where homeschoolers participated in not only academic projects and competitions, but also in public school programs such as sports, thespians and music and, of course, taking all the state's required tests. But these are people who take their responsibilities as parents seriously and I respect them for that. I've also known some who tried and failed, but their kids didn't suffer at all from the experience, they merely adapted to the other venue and went on. We don't give our kids enough credit.

Much information about this phenomon is skewed and undermined by proponents of the status quo as well as mainstream media and there are still ongoing battles as to how many public school activities and events a homeschool child may be included in, but many states now support more inclusion. And, after all, these people pay taxes, too.

I see this as a reduction in the extremes.

Originally posted by frazzle

No no no, never apologise. I wouldn't have gone looking for other examples if not for yours. Just because we're coming at this discussion from different view points doesn't mean apologies are ever necessary, how can people ever reach consensus, or at least mutual understanding if they don't talk about those differences?

You speak of bonus offers and my mind immediately pops over to the medical industry and doctors who are "bonused" for prescribing the latest new wonder drug to patients who don't even realize they're being used as lab rats.

What these experts try to do is put us into comfort zones designed to shut off our critical thinking capabilities.

edit on 7-6-2012 by frazzle because: (no reason given)

edit on 7-6-2012 by frazzle because: (no reason given)

Just apologizing for my error, not for my stand
It does sound very similar to the medical industry. I suppose the marketing teams branch out to all fields.