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What exactly DO we want?

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posted on Jun, 4 2012 @ 07:33 PM
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reply to post by AfterInfinity
 


Here's where we already have our first problem. You're assuming we have decency to behave ourselves. Looked around lately?

You're probably too young to remember the days of the cop on the beat who knew all the local people by name. Those poor officers were probably the most bored people in town. Well, besides the Maytag man. But people with freedom to be seldom went looking for a fight and when they did, that cop on the beat knew it was his duty to protect "his people" without tazing the three year old kid sitting on his porch playing jacks. The bad guys got swift trials as promised in the 6th Amendment and went to jail, and they didn't get to plea bargain it down.

We've forgotten so much of what made life worth living in the rush to "PROTECT" us from everylittlething since 9/11, including ourselves.




posted on Jun, 4 2012 @ 09:00 PM
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Originally posted by frazzle
reply to post by AfterInfinity
 


Here's where we already have our first problem. You're assuming we have decency to behave ourselves. Looked around lately?

Yup, and so far, on this thread, people have been very civil




You're probably too young to remember the days of the cop on the beat who knew all the local people by name. Those poor officers were probably the most bored people in town. Well, besides the Maytag man. But people with freedom to be seldom went looking for a fight and when they did, that cop on the beat knew it was his duty to protect "his people" without tazing the three year old kid sitting on his porch playing jacks. The bad guys got swift trials as promised in the 6th Amendment and went to jail, and they didn't get to plea bargain it down.

dude, I still live in Mayberry!!
...and getting older by the day
.... I'm 187 now I think




We've forgotten so much of what made life worth living in the rush to "PROTECT" us from everylittlething since 9/11, including ourselves.


I was born and raised in "Mayberry", moved to just outside Philly for 8 years, then returned to Mayberry. There is a HUGE difference in the pace and the attitudes and I have to say... I do prefer it here in Mayberry.



posted on Jun, 4 2012 @ 09:15 PM
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reply to post by PurpleChiten
 

There is a HUGE difference in the pace and the attitudes and I have to say... I do prefer it here in Mayberry.

Well just don't get cocky about your little piece of heaven or I'll have to come over there and hurt you.


We could charge for tickets, couple of old foggies punching like girls.



posted on Jun, 4 2012 @ 09:18 PM
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Some people make the "Good Old Days" sound like utopia, they weren't, read your history. Upton Sinclair's book "The Jungle" is a good place to start. Many of the laws that are on the books today, federal, state, and local are there because people couldn't behave themselves. Companies and Corporations raped the land, raped their employees, and raped the public. Greed is a mighty motivator, seriously, some of you need to read history, besides what we are taught in school. It is amazing what you can find out when you choose to educate yourselves. Deny ignorance is the tagline for this site, but I see a lot of it, coming from the fringe on both sides.



posted on Jun, 4 2012 @ 09:31 PM
link   

Originally posted by BubbaJoe
Some people make the "Good Old Days" sound like utopia, they weren't, read your history. Upton Sinclair's book "The Jungle" is a good place to start. Many of the laws that are on the books today, federal, state, and local are there because people couldn't behave themselves. Companies and Corporations raped the land, raped their employees, and raped the public. Greed is a mighty motivator, seriously, some of you need to read history, besides what we are taught in school. It is amazing what you can find out when you choose to educate yourselves. Deny ignorance is the tagline for this site, but I see a lot of it, coming from the fringe on both sides.


I've read more not-off-the shelf history than was good for my blood pressure and from all of that, you're just painting pretty pictures with words. Greed and brutality has always been with us, the point I was responding to was that WE aren't capable of living in proximity to others without going on crime sprees. I know I'm capable of that. Aren't you?

Kings, religions and corporations have always raped the land and mowed down anyone who got in their way, but that isn't us, that's who we're trying to figure out a way to get the mower away from.

Wanna help?


edit on 4-6-2012 by frazzle because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 4 2012 @ 09:33 PM
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Originally posted by frazzle
reply to post by PurpleChiten
 

There is a HUGE difference in the pace and the attitudes and I have to say... I do prefer it here in Mayberry.

Well just don't get cocky about your little piece of heaven or I'll have to come over there and hurt you.


We could charge for tickets, couple of old foggies punching like girls.


It's pretty darn great!!!
Here's the view out my back door!!




posted on Jun, 4 2012 @ 09:37 PM
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reply to post by PurpleChiten
 


Smug.

second line.



posted on Jun, 4 2012 @ 09:39 PM
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Originally posted by frazzle
reply to post by PurpleChiten
 


Smug.

second line.


The farm goes to the base of that fuzzy mountain you see back there



posted on Jun, 4 2012 @ 09:47 PM
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reply to post by PurpleChiten
 


Its gorgeous!

If I hadn't zigged when I should have zagged I'd be posting a picture of the homestead (well if I could figure out how to do that.) Instead all I've got to show are some cactus and a whole lot of dirt and I'm too banged up to pull up stakes and head home. Nobody's fault but my own.



posted on Jun, 4 2012 @ 09:53 PM
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OP I love how you are running this thread and I am so glad that there are people out there who are not just stomping their feet in tantrum saying, "we want change" but are also asking the hard question of What Change? and How? I want freedom and a truly thriving society as much as the next person, but I also know that unless we have a plan for after we take back our beloved freedom we'll just end up running around like a bunch of chickens with our heads cut off. And in that state we would be even more vulnerable than we are now.

I think what we really need is a mental shift at the personal level for everyone as soon as possible. Our built-in complacency will never be conducive to the changes we really want and need. WE DON'T EVEN KNOW WHO WE ARE. All people (as in EVERY FRICKIN LAST ONE OF THEM) need hope, food, shelter and a sense of security. People who don't need anything have no reason to fear and fight. People who are fearing and fighting less have more time and energy to grow...and simply breath a sigh of relief. Everyone needs to know that they are here in this life for a reason beyond work and money and material possession. People need to FEEL freedom BEFORE it arrives and everyone needs to know that we are all truly and absolutely connected.

All the freedom in the universe as long as it does not impinge on the freedom of another. Fostering this and even educating this idea of unity would start to build a society that would not choose to harm another as that person is really an extension of themselves and would affect the evolution of our society. Because that is what this is and that is what is needed. An evolution of the homo sapien. This is the kind of society a new government, economical, and technological structure should be build around. And I'm sure it sounds way too futuristic and metaphysical for this topic, but I firmly believe that it is all very much entwined.
edit on 4-6-2012 by awakendhybrid because: (no reason given)

edit on 4-6-2012 by awakendhybrid because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 4 2012 @ 10:00 PM
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What I want is simple. I want more public funding to go to education. I want our schools to be better funded and have a higher concentration on basic things like math and science instead of fairy tales about invisible friends. I want adults to learn how to read. I want to be able to discuss something online with another person who understands what they are reading.

I want people to know the difference between "do" and "don't."


Originally posted by EvilSadamClone
What I want are several things:

I don't want a government controlled by the wealthy elite.

I don't mind having a large government, but I want it to be an unobtrusive government that is concerned about protecting our constitutional rights instead of eroding the rights away for the wealthy elite.

I truly want it to be a government for the people and by the people, not for the wealthy elite.

I don't want it to become a Socialist country.


Oh and I would love people to learn what words really mean instead of what they think they mean. I love our socialist country. I am a big fan of police, fire depts., roads, teachers, etc. I would like them to get paid better.

Good luck OP. I have a feeling there are a lot of angry posts in this thread that completely missed what you actually said. I know what I DO want.



posted on Jun, 4 2012 @ 10:02 PM
link   

Originally posted by awakendhybrid
OP I love how you are running this thread and I am so glad that there are people out there who are not just stomping their feet in tantrum saying, "we want change" but are also asking the hard question of How? I want freedom and a truly thriving society as much as the next person, but I also know that unless we have a plan for after we take back our beloved freedom we'll just end up running around like a bunch of chickens with our heads cut off. And in that state we would be even more vulnerable than we are now.

I think what we really need is a mental shift at the personal level for everyone as soon as possible. Our built-in complacency will never be conducive to the changes we really want and need. WE DON'T EVEN KNOW WHO WE ARE. All people (as in EVERY FRICKIN LAST ONE OF THEM) need hope, food, shelter and a sense of security. People who don't need anything have no reason to fear and fight. People who are fearing and fighting less have more time and energy to grow...and simply breath a sigh of relief. Everyone needs to know that they are here in this life for a reason beyond work and money and material possession. People need to FEEL freedom BEFORE it arrives and everyone needs to know that we are all truly and absolutely connected.

All the freedom in the universe as long as it does not impinge on the freedom of another. Fostering this and even educating this idea of unity would start to build a society that would not choose to harm another as that person is really an extension of themselves and would affect the evolution of our society. Because that is what this is and that is what is needed. An evolution of the homo sapien. This is the kind of society a new government, economical, and technological structure should be build around. And I'm sure it sounds way to futuristic and metaphysical for this topic, but I firmly believe that it is all very much entwined.

Yes, back on topic..
You're right. If we are going to make changes, there are a LOT of things to cover first. We've started with the things we want and people have weighed in really well. I guess the next part is going to be "how are we going to get it", then "how are we going to keep it".
So, now that we have the basic ideas of what we want and need from the government, nothing absolute mind you, but a general idea, how do we propose on getting these things? Do we have a revolution? Do we find candidates and vote them into office? Do we sign petitions (yeah right), how do we go about achieving our goal?
For arguments sake, I guess we should put a time frame with our ideas, for example:
We should locate and elect officials that hold these values and make the commitment to accomplishing the goal. It will take at least two election cycles to get people into place, so about 4 years. There would be a lot of legwork, a lot of campaigning, a lot of meeting, a lot of thinking. We'd need manpower and money. To get those we could..... well, you get the message, more descriptive maybe or even more general if you want, heck, we take whatever we can get if it's positive and useful!
Keep in mind, we aren't "planning" something, we're looking at ideas. I don't have the time or energy to do all this and I"m sure plenty of you don't either, but if we're discussing it, then can discuss it with people outside of here and they discuss it with more people and those people ...you know how it works.... eventually, we might just get some results when it gets to the right minds and the right backs.

or at least we can hope....



posted on Jun, 4 2012 @ 10:33 PM
link   

Originally posted by BubbaJoe
Some people make the "Good Old Days" sound like utopia, they weren't, read your history. Upton Sinclair's book "The Jungle" is a good place to start. Many of the laws that are on the books today, federal, state, and local are there because people couldn't behave themselves. Companies and Corporations raped the land, raped their employees, and raped the public. Greed is a mighty motivator, seriously, some of you need to read history, besides what we are taught in school. It is amazing what you can find out when you choose to educate yourselves. Deny ignorance is the tagline for this site, but I see a lot of it, coming from the fringe on both sides.


Yea well that same guy also has a book claiming his wife was telepathic.

It's not without a sense of irony that book actually seems like a genuine study. In fact Albert Einstein himself sort of vouched for it:

Read Online - Upton Sinclair, Mental Radio


The preface was written by Albert Einstein who praised Sinclair's observation and writing abilities as well as good faith and reliability. Einstein writes "The results of the telepathic experiments carefully and plainly set forth in this book stand surely beyond that which a nature investigator holds to be thinkable. On the other hand, it is out of the question in the case of so conscientious an observer and writer as Upton Sinclair that he is carrying on a conscious deception of the reading world; his good faith and dependability are not to be doubted."
Wiki - Mental Radio


Read it and decide for yourself, you might just find it interesting, I did. Regardless, Mr. Sinclair was truly an interesting and intelligent individual, I've spent a lot of time reading about him. This book, Mental Radio, is one of those pseudo scientific things that has been forgotten in the pages of time.

Wiki - Upton Sinclair

reply to post by PurpleChiten
Be sure to hold on to that, because its quickly disappearing. I know I sure miss where I grew up at.
edit on 4-6-2012 by RSF77 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 4 2012 @ 10:42 PM
link   
reply to post by PurpleChiten
 


Just to note, I was not just being snarky. I was sincere. We have become a country of uneducated morons. Simple things like grammar rules are practically nonexistent. No one even uses the word "I" correctly anymore, they just always use it and it kills me. Other countries are flying by us in science and math while we have huge groups of powerful people arguing that we need more God in our schools. God does not invent the next iPad.

I want us to be smarter, stronger, healthier, faster, richer than all other nations. I see a huge waste in tax dollars spent on crap that benefits no one while schools suffer more and more.

I want better education to be accessible to more people.



posted on Jun, 4 2012 @ 11:01 PM
link   

Originally posted by habitforming
reply to post by PurpleChiten
 


Just to note, I was not just being snarky. I was sincere. We have become a country of uneducated morons. Simple things like grammar rules are practically nonexistent. No one even uses the word "I" correctly anymore, they just always use it and it kills me. Other countries are flying by us in science and math while we have huge groups of powerful people arguing that we need more God in our schools. God does not invent the next iPad.

I want us to be smarter, stronger, healthier, faster, richer than all other nations. I see a huge waste in tax dollars spent on crap that benefits no one while schools suffer more and more.

I want better education to be accessible to more people.


Yes, it does seem that certain basic skills have flown out the window. Probably the one that bothers me most is "There", "They're", and "Their". It's really not that complicated...oh and "your" and "you're".... they drive me NUTS. I'm fine with typos or even bad spelling when it's not extreme, but sheesh, come on, these are basic words and some people don't even TRY to get them right


I guess the common philosophy at the moment is more on modeling and "the ends justifies the means" and they're so anxious to move kids ahead to calculus that they forget about having them memorize the times tables. They just throw a calculator to them and say "let's move on". We're sending our kids to school younger and younger these days and it seems like they're learning less and less, it's very frustrating.

I guess one of the reasons that some say they "want God back in the schools", deep, deep down, they realize that it gives an order of discipline and some simplicity to things. Perhaps a "back to the basics" idea and the best way they can describe it is a return to the morals and values of the 1950's. It doesn't necessairly have to be God that's back in the schools as much as accountability where it belongs.
The student needs to be accountable for their actions.Accountability has been put almost everywhere except where it belongs. Ultimately, the resonsiblity needs to be on the student. The parents and the teachers are there to support the student, to facilitate, but not "do the work for them' or cater to them or bend to their will. The administration should be there to serve the teachers and parents, the central office should be serving the administration, the School Board should be serving the central office and administrators, the state departments should be serving the central offices (superintendents), the federal level should serve the states level. That's not how it works though.
The majority of money taken in should go into the classrooms, to the education of the students, but it doesn't. The teachers really do need to be paid more, but there standards need to be higher as well. They need to be evaluated by outside sources who aren't connected to the school districts, they need to show they know how to teach, then the parents need to be held accountable. They need to ensure their children get to bed at a decent hour, are fed good, healthy meals, are punished for doing wrong, complete their homework. The student needs to realize that they can FAIL if the don't do what is expected of them. There needs to be a line set, if they don't meet it, they have to repeat. They know good and well they won't be held back unless they do absolutely nothing, so they do as little as possible just to get by and they are cheating themselves along with every other kid in that class. If they want to cheat themselves, fine, but they shouldn't get to cheat everyone else.
I could probably go on for pages, but you kinda see my drift by now.
It's the 3 R's for the 21st Century.
Be Respectful - respectful to yourself and others
Be Responsible = do what is required and explore further, TRY to learn as much as possible
Be Ready - have materials with you, homework completed, be ready to learn.
3 little rules that take care of most all the issues that come up.



posted on Jun, 4 2012 @ 11:28 PM
link   

Originally posted by frazzle

Originally posted by BubbaJoe
Some people make the "Good Old Days" sound like utopia, they weren't, read your history. Upton Sinclair's book "The Jungle" is a good place to start. Many of the laws that are on the books today, federal, state, and local are there because people couldn't behave themselves. Companies and Corporations raped the land, raped their employees, and raped the public. Greed is a mighty motivator, seriously, some of you need to read history, besides what we are taught in school. It is amazing what you can find out when you choose to educate yourselves. Deny ignorance is the tagline for this site, but I see a lot of it, coming from the fringe on both sides.


I've read more not-off-the shelf history than was good for my blood pressure and from all of that, you're just painting pretty pictures with words. Greed and brutality has always been with us, the point I was responding to was that WE aren't capable of living in proximity to others without going on crime sprees. I know I'm capable of that. Aren't you?

Kings, religions and corporations have always raped the land and mowed down anyone who got in their way, but that isn't us, that's who we're trying to figure out a way to get the mower away from.

Wanna help?


edit on 4-6-2012 by frazzle because: (no reason given)


Not in any way trying to paint pretty pictures, trying to make a point. My wife and l live in about 800 square feet with a shared kitchen, that we share with 200 pounds of German Shepherd, look after my mother and step father. I work with my sister, and we mostly carpool.

We are capable, until we desire something that someone else has. Politicians are greedy, religious leaders are greedy, corporations are greedy, it is only when those of us who are not greedy can speak loudly enough that things will be changed.

Yes I am very willing to help, and try to do what I can everyday to help. The post I made was pointed to no one in particular, outside of those that refuse to learn, obviously, you are not of that nature.



posted on Jun, 4 2012 @ 11:35 PM
link   

Originally posted by RSF77

Originally posted by BubbaJoe
Some people make the "Good Old Days" sound like utopia, they weren't, read your history. Upton Sinclair's book "The Jungle" is a good place to start. Many of the laws that are on the books today, federal, state, and local are there because people couldn't behave themselves. Companies and Corporations raped the land, raped their employees, and raped the public. Greed is a mighty motivator, seriously, some of you need to read history, besides what we are taught in school. It is amazing what you can find out when you choose to educate yourselves. Deny ignorance is the tagline for this site, but I see a lot of it, coming from the fringe on both sides.


Yea well that same guy also has a book claiming his wife was telepathic.

It's not without a sense of irony that book actually seems like a genuine study. In fact Albert Einstein himself sort of vouched for it:

Read Online - Upton Sinclair, Mental Radio


The preface was written by Albert Einstein who praised Sinclair's observation and writing abilities as well as good faith and reliability. Einstein writes "The results of the telepathic experiments carefully and plainly set forth in this book stand surely beyond that which a nature investigator holds to be thinkable. On the other hand, it is out of the question in the case of so conscientious an observer and writer as Upton Sinclair that he is carrying on a conscious deception of the reading world; his good faith and dependability are not to be doubted."
Wiki - Mental Radio


Read it and decide for yourself, you might just find it interesting, I did. Regardless, Mr. Sinclair was truly an interesting and intelligent individual, I've spent a lot of time reading about him. This book, Mental Radio, is one of those pseudo scientific things that has been forgotten in the pages of time.

Wiki - Upton Sinclair

reply to post by PurpleChiten
Be sure to hold on to that, because its quickly disappearing. I know I sure miss where I grew up at.
edit on 4-6-2012 by RSF77 because: (no reason given)


"The Jungle" has absolutely nothing to do with telepathy, it is a story about the disgraces of the meat packing industry in the late 1800's. Sometimes wikipedia is not your friend. If you truly believe the story to truly be made up, think about the scandal of "Pink Slime" today.



posted on Jun, 4 2012 @ 11:39 PM
link   

Originally posted by RSF77
reply to post by PurpleChiten
Be sure to hold on to that, because its quickly disappearing. I know I sure miss where I grew up at.
edit on 4-6-2012 by RSF77 because: (no reason given)


It's already set up to stick around for at least three more generations!



posted on Jun, 4 2012 @ 11:41 PM
link   

Originally posted by BubbaJoe

Originally posted by frazzle

Originally posted by BubbaJoe
Some people make the "Good Old Days" sound like utopia, they weren't, read your history. Upton Sinclair's book "The Jungle" is a good place to start. Many of the laws that are on the books today, federal, state, and local are there because people couldn't behave themselves. Companies and Corporations raped the land, raped their employees, and raped the public. Greed is a mighty motivator, seriously, some of you need to read history, besides what we are taught in school. It is amazing what you can find out when you choose to educate yourselves. Deny ignorance is the tagline for this site, but I see a lot of it, coming from the fringe on both sides.


I've read more not-off-the shelf history than was good for my blood pressure and from all of that, you're just painting pretty pictures with words. Greed and brutality has always been with us, the point I was responding to was that WE aren't capable of living in proximity to others without going on crime sprees. I know I'm capable of that. Aren't you?

Kings, religions and corporations have always raped the land and mowed down anyone who got in their way, but that isn't us, that's who we're trying to figure out a way to get the mower away from.

Wanna help?


edit on 4-6-2012 by frazzle because: (no reason given)


Not in any way trying to paint pretty pictures, trying to make a point. My wife and l live in about 800 square feet with a shared kitchen, that we share with 200 pounds of German Shepherd, look after my mother and step father. I work with my sister, and we mostly carpool.

We are capable, until we desire something that someone else has. Politicians are greedy, religious leaders are greedy, corporations are greedy, it is only when those of us who are not greedy can speak loudly enough that things will be changed.

Yes I am very willing to help, and try to do what I can everyday to help. The post I made was pointed to no one in particular, outside of those that refuse to learn, obviously, you are not of that nature.


There was a movie... they were wanting a bigger house, then by the end of it, they decided to keep the smaller one because it made sure they stayed 'close together' or something of that nature. Your post reminded me of that. Our families are very important and we need to keep them a close part of our lives as long as we can.



posted on Jun, 4 2012 @ 11:48 PM
link   

Originally posted by PurpleChiten

Originally posted by BubbaJoe

Originally posted by frazzle

Originally posted by BubbaJoe
Some people make the "Good Old Days" sound like utopia, they weren't, read your history. Upton Sinclair's book "The Jungle" is a good place to start. Many of the laws that are on the books today, federal, state, and local are there because people couldn't behave themselves. Companies and Corporations raped the land, raped their employees, and raped the public. Greed is a mighty motivator, seriously, some of you need to read history, besides what we are taught in school. It is amazing what you can find out when you choose to educate yourselves. Deny ignorance is the tagline for this site, but I see a lot of it, coming from the fringe on both sides.


I've read more not-off-the shelf history than was good for my blood pressure and from all of that, you're just painting pretty pictures with words. Greed and brutality has always been with us, the point I was responding to was that WE aren't capable of living in proximity to others without going on crime sprees. I know I'm capable of that. Aren't you?

Kings, religions and corporations have always raped the land and mowed down anyone who got in their way, but that isn't us, that's who we're trying to figure out a way to get the mower away from.

Wanna help?


edit on 4-6-2012 by frazzle because: (no reason given)


Not in any way trying to paint pretty pictures, trying to make a point. My wife and l live in about 800 square feet with a shared kitchen, that we share with 200 pounds of German Shepherd, look after my mother and step father. I work with my sister, and we mostly carpool.

We are capable, until we desire something that someone else has. Politicians are greedy, religious leaders are greedy, corporations are greedy, it is only when those of us who are not greedy can speak loudly enough that things will be changed.

Yes I am very willing to help, and try to do what I can everyday to help. The post I made was pointed to no one in particular, outside of those that refuse to learn, obviously, you are not of that nature.


There was a movie... they were wanting a bigger house, then by the end of it, they decided to keep the smaller one because it made sure they stayed 'close together' or something of that nature. Your post reminded me of that. Our families are very important and we need to keep them a close part of our lives as long as we can.


I grew up here, watched my parents divorce as I married for the first time. I left the area for almost 30 years, traveled the country, and moved back. Yeah I will take Mayberry any day of the week. Am on my third marriage, am finally happy, and have watched both of my parents find new mates, sometimes life is good.



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