What exactly DO we want?

Originally posted by ThirdEyeofHorus

I believe in moderation. The govt is way out of control right now.

Maybe conservatives can start by slashing the portions of government they have constructed.

Maybe they can lead by example instead of simply blaming the people who do believe in government.

Originally posted by Beanskinner

Originally posted by ThirdEyeofHorus

I believe in moderation. The govt is way out of control right now.

Maybe conservatives can start by slashing the portions of government they have constructed.

Maybe they can lead by example instead of simply blaming the people who do believe in government.

We're not looking for negatives such as stop this, slash that, we're looking for positives, what SHOULD be there, not what shouldn't.
Instead of arguing about what we shouldn't do, lets work together toward what we SHOULD do.
Enough of the bickering, there are millions of threads for that, this one is for working together, not against one another.

Originally posted by RealSpoke
reply to post by PurpleChiten

 

We need some property, good variety of people, solar panels, start farming, aquaponics and all that. Live off the land and be happy.

So getting back to the basics so to speak? Allowing people to provide for themselves and making it possible! Having people work together instead of setting them against one another. Incorporating the technology we have to produce results instead of tensions... very good ideas!

reply to post by PurpleChiten


I am not prepared to express myself on this yet. Just wanted to say you are one of the most uplifting and accepting posters I have ever had the pleasure to encounter.

I will be keeping an eye out for you.

Originally posted by TsukiLunar
reply to post by PurpleChiten

 

I am not prepared to express myself on this yet. Just wanted to say you are one of the most uplifting and accepting posters I have ever had the pleasure to encounter.

I will be keeping an eye out for you.

Wow, thank you!! ... I just want to find answers instead of complaining about everything. We have to come together if we hope to improve things. As long as people are at each other's throats, nothing is going to get accomlished.... and that might be just what TPTB want, so it's time to BECOME TPTB, each and every one of us, together. We don't have to agree on the details, but we can agree that everyone wants what's best for their family, friends and community and what we're doing isn't working.
Thanks for the compliment and I look forward to seeing what you come up with too!

Originally posted by PurpleChiten

1. The government has not addressed our concerns
2. The government has not provided adequate leadership for us
3. Political extremes keep us at each others throats
4. There IS a better way.

Excuse me fortrimming down your OP (I have to go to work soon)

But to address the points in your OP;
1. Government should lead, not take care of us. Our "concerns" should be dealt with by us, the individual, instead of some faceless desk jockey in DC.
2. There is no leadership, I actually agree.
3. Political extremes are what keep us balanced.
4. There is always a better way.

Originally posted by beezzer

Originally posted by PurpleChiten

1. The government has not addressed our concerns
2. The government has not provided adequate leadership for us
3. Political extremes keep us at each others throats
4. There IS a better way.

Excuse me fortrimming down your OP (I have to go to work soon)

But to address the points in your OP;
1. Government should lead, not take care of us. Our "concerns" should be dealt with by us, the individual, instead of some faceless desk jockey in DC.
2. There is no leadership, I actually agree.
3. Political extremes are what keep us balanced.
4. There is always a better way.

edit on 3-6-2012 by beezzer because: (no reason given)

Thanks Beez!!
Good points. One of my favorite sayings during political differences of opinion is "It takes both wings to fly", we do need the balance, but we have to find a way to get the balance without flogging each other to death.
I guess that comes from mutual respect. I know we differ politically, but I respect you so I don't try to bicker with you. We need to find a way to help others do the same I guess.
Great contribution!

reply to post by PurpleChiten


Government as a concept has proven to be a massive FAIL. There is no way to constructively control/guide the minds of the masses without the "controllers" becoming themselves confused and criminal. This has been proven through the process i am following for dealing with the "authorities". They have effectively been stripped of their right minds.

The new paradigm of unity is in place, and they are refusing to accomodate those who recognize and live in that paradigm. Thus, their end will be swift and sure and final. No violence will be necessary unless/until they start it (and they will). The control of the pathetic so-called "elite" is at an end, along with their offworld masters.

You and I and everyone else needs to cultivate self-ownership and self-responsibility to an impeccable degree, in order to pass the coming test. YOU are responsible for the totality of your experience. YOU are responsible for all that you see. And best of all, YOU can choose to see it all as a lesson in love, or choose to live in fear of illusory 'others' who have 'control' over you. No one controls you against your will. Wherever you have allowed others to control you, you have done so willingly.

please see the links in the sig for more info. It may be time for this to go viral.

No one is permitted to graduate past kindergarten until he has mastered parallel operation in duality and unity.

reply to post by seamus


Very good post! I see we're in the same general philosophical area. You have some very interesting links I'll have to check out!!
I didn't go to kindergarten!
..many, many moons ago when it was used to "get kids ready" for 1st grade and only open to those who they felt needed it... anyway....
they are definitely losing control of the masses and lashing out as a result. It may very well come to a physical battle at some point, although I would much rather see it just die out as a wimper (we can always hope).
When we all take our responsibility, we we all become our own controllers, how do we then come together? What steps do we have to take to get everyone to accept the unity and accept the responsibility?

It would be great if it just "happened" and suddenly we were all working together for a better tomorrow... but it has to start somewhere. If not now, when? If not me, who?
I guess leadership isn't the answer, cooperation is, with everyone as their own leader?

I think what we want is acceptance, understanding, love and happiness. How rules made by the "current" govt. can do that is anyones guess.

What they CAN do is inform people through prime time TV shows, just take an hour and explain EVERY rule/law and make a site that allows people to download and stream the show they interupted. Then give people a vote forum they put their SSN into and vote on it and give an explanation on why they voted the way they did. Then for those who vote, they get a pick of 2 great movie titles that are more then 5 years old. People want to be part of the decisions that effect their lives and freedom and not have to go through hoops to do it or to even find it in the first place.

Originally posted by XL5
I think what we want is acceptance, understanding, love and happiness. How rules made by the "current" govt. can do that is anyones guess.

What they CAN do is inform people through prime time TV shows, just take an hour and explain EVERY rule/law and make a site that allows people to download and stream the show they interupted. Then give people a vote forum they put their SSN into and vote on it and give an explanation on why they voted the way they did. Then for those who vote, they get a pick of 2 great movie titles that are more then 5 years old. People want to be part of the decisions that effect their lives and freedom and not have to go through hoops to do it or to even find it in the first place.

So use the common media to get interaction as opposed to just entertianment and direction? kewl!

My demands:

1. Repeal the Patriot Act.
2. Shut down all Watchdog lists of American citizens.
3. Bring every American soldier home.
4. No war unless we are physically attacked on our shores.
5. No more meddling or trying to overthrow the government of other countries.
6. Fair Trade with other countries must be switched to EQUAL Trade. (Oranges for cinnamon, cars for oil...)
7. No more selling of U.S. bonds to other countries or non-Americans.
8. Our government is not allowed to give other countries money for war or defense.
9. Set up military installations all along our borders and shores.
10. Inspections at airports only for flights coming into the country, not going from state to state.
11. Ban all foreign products coming into the country that we can manufacture ourselves.
11A. Ban all products from American companies that took their business out of the country.
12. Concerns that are not in need of immediate attention (control of the internet, internet gambling, funds for items like FEMA camps) cannot become a law unless voted on by the people.
13. All government representatives caught giving false information to the public shall be tried for treason.

Feel free to add more and/or disagree with any of the above. Let's see if we can get a couple hundred million people to agree of SOMETHING.

Originally posted by jiggerj
My demands:

1. Repeal the Patriot Act.
2. Shut down all Watchdog lists of American citizens.
3. Bring every American soldier home.
4. No war unless we are physically attacked on our shores.
5. No more meddling or trying to overthrow the government of other countries.
6. Fair Trade with other countries must be switched to EQUAL Trade. (Oranges for cinnamon, cars for oil...)
7. No more selling of U.S. bonds to other countries or non-Americans.
8. Our government is not allowed to give other countries money for war or defense.
9. Set up military installations all along our borders and shores.
10. Inspections at airports only for flights coming into the country, not going from state to state.
11. Ban all foreign products coming into the country that we can manufacture ourselves.
11A. Ban all products from American companies that took their business out of the country.
12. Concerns that are not in need of immediate attention (control of the internet, internet gambling, funds for items like FEMA camps) cannot become a law unless voted on by the people.
13. All government representatives caught giving false information to the public shall be tried for treason.

Feel free to add more and/or disagree with any of the above. Let's see if we can get a couple hundred million people to agree of SOMETHING.

I like them! It takes all the things that most of the conspiracy ideas are rooted in out of the government, makes them accountable to us instead of us accountable to them and keeps the interests in our own country instead of imposing on other countries. Makes us concentrate on being the United States of America instead of "the new world government". ... we're not the "leaders of the world", we're an independent country.

Originally posted by Beanskinner

Originally posted by ThirdEyeofHorus

I believe in moderation. The govt is way out of control right now.

Maybe conservatives can start by slashing the portions of government they have constructed.

Maybe they can lead by example instead of simply blaming the people who do believe in government.

Who said conservatives don't believe in govt? That is your own erroneous construct. On the other hand, Constitutionalists believe in limited govt based on true Constitutional Law. Nanny Statism is overkill and Totalitarianism.

Originally posted by ThirdEyeofHorus

Originally posted by Beanskinner

Originally posted by ThirdEyeofHorus

I believe in moderation. The govt is way out of control right now.

Maybe conservatives can start by slashing the portions of government they have constructed.

Maybe they can lead by example instead of simply blaming the people who do believe in government.

Who said conservatives don't believe in govt? That is your own erroneous construct. On the other hand, Constitutionalists believe in limited govt based on true Constitutional Law. Nanny Statism is overkill and Totalitarianism.

Not the place for partisan bickering, we're looking for solutions, not more problems. I understand that different parties have different ideas, but lets put those aside for now and look at ways we are alike instead of ways we are different. How can we come together instead of driving us further apart....
Please, it really is worth the time and effort
Thanks

Stricter regulation of business and less regulation on individuals. Once a business gets to a certain size, it is either limited or capped. No personal profit can be made for a business owner for himself or his associates until it naturally reduces the size of the corporation allowing for a more free market. Businesses tend to out compete each other and once it gets to a certain point there is an obvious monopoly that goes on through loopholes, lobbyists and what essentially amounts to a financial assault on the smaller business that may be able to provide better and cheaper products, or products that are actually made in the country.

De-integration of business and government, the government is not a business. One business counts as the voice of ONE person, the ultimate owner or group of owners and should have no more say than an average Joe with $10 in his pocket. The course of America shouldn't be decided by how much money you have to throw at the system. This will inevitably lead to corporate tyranny, and it will.

Also, much like jiggerj says: Companies that do business in the US should either be strictly nationalized or viewed as an opposition to the country and not a force more prominent than the country itself. I don't have any idea right now how this would be accomplished, but its something that is sucking the life out of America through neglect for American citizens. That's why people don't have jobs, because business is being taken elsewhere. I say MAKE THEM do their business and create their industrial, manufacturing base here or else they can find consumers elsewhere, good luck with that. We are seriously getting the shaft as Americans.

Corporations are becoming the new nationalities and nationalities are losing their identity because of it. Splitting a company into a bunch of different companies doesn't work because they all still pretty much function as one company. That's what we have now, a plethora of big and small companies working together as one entity (essentially a single business in itself), creating a virtual monopoly exempt from law through inner dealings and a hierarchy of wealth.

My demands are to stop the above trends ^^^

Great thread. Kudos Purplechiten.

Just poking my nose in to make a few comments. Of your choices, I prefer numbers 3 and 4, more Power to the States. But skip number 1, that’s what got us into trouble in the first place, and as for 2, granted there are times when arbitration is needed, but the current system is not working properly in that regard because some federal representatives and senators have more power than the others as they sit on special committees and so many of them are willing to sell that power to the highest bidders in individual states (or countries or corporations). So other than voting, or writing polite letters to our reps or signing harshly worded petitions ~ all of which is ignored ~ those routes seem always to be blocked by big money and influence. So “they” aren’t going to do anything besides what they’re already doing and it’s a fool’s game to think we can MAKE them do otherwise.

Reading the comments it looks like we pretty much want the same things overall, but what I want most is for us all to take note of what we can do and what we cannot do and get creative about the borderline issues to find workarounds that might ultimately unblock some of the stalemates.

However, to EvilSadamClone, as I suggested on a different thread, if you wanted the government out of your marriage you probably shouldn’t have signed that license application, which when you boil it down merely grants permission and comes complete with ever changing rules. So maybe check out how being incorporated is possibly a superior workaround for marriage in terms of getting them out of your personal hair and even improving your tax situation. Write your own bylaws. Shoot, no one would even ever have to get divorced, just split the assets and dissolve the corporation.

The only way we can put our people first is if WE put our people first. Government isn’t about caring, its about control. They’ve even made it "against the law" for individuals to feed the hungry, so we need to find some workarounds fast if we’re going to get anything done about that. And I still see the incorporation of like minded people as a possible avenue going in a better direction. Even non profits and foundations could be set up. Of course how to fund such organizations is the next question and the first thing that pops into my mind are grants ~ everyone should learn how to write grants, which are available through government at all levels, as well as from corporations and already established foundations. An individual will play hell getting any of that money, but organizations can usually find a niche to fill. Here is an example: ww2.nationalservice.org... Just don’t get buried in all the opportunities because once you get started on it the sheer number of possibilities can be overwhelming.

Also, while complimentary/alternative/local currencies do have their limitations, its all in how they’re set up to function and how they’re managed that counts. There is a ton of proof that they work well to put local buying power in the hands of people who are desperate for money and it puts shoppers in stores that are just one sale from boarding up the windows. A lot of research and development and actual experience has already gone into the benefits of these currencies. I suppose the Ithaca Hour is the best example of how well it can work, although there are hundreds more local currencies operating across the US and other countries.
www.paulglover.org... Another workaround example is “The Public Banking Institute”, which is larger in scope and has great potential. globalresearch.ca... But we need to get out from under the too big to fail failures and find things we CAN do by working together.

Lastly, we don’t need to get even with "them", or even ahead, but it would probably be a good idea to start using some of the tactics they’ve used against us so successfully.

Nice selection of comments, and I know I am going to differ from a lot of folks in here.

Federal, State, and Local ordinances are all required, and of the three, Local Governments scare the living hell out of me. While we all complain about the elites on the Federal scene, many communities, small and large have their own version of the elites, and actually need much smaller numbers to get things passed. That being said, we live in a global economy, not the local economy of 150 years ago, therefore I believe some things need to be regulated, or standard set at a Federal level. I am going to try and give a couple of examples, but don't have everything thought completely through yet.

Education: For straightforward subjects, English, Math, Civics, etc., I believe there should be national standards, the child from the poorest part of any state has the same right to a standard education in a public school as does a child from a wealthier area in a public school. I would like to include several other science based subjects but do not want to get into the creationism/evolution debate.

Environment: Contrary to what many believe, this needs to be set at a national level. What Kansas or Nebraska does to there water supply, can affect me here in Missouri, same with air quality. Same with commerce, because of the environmental laws in the state of California, there are products I can not sell there, and thus California is limiting my ability to turn a profit. Or I can spend more of my profit and re-engineer the product to California standards, if this extended to all 50 states, I could probably have to have 50 different products to sell to 50 different states, which opens a whole other can of worms.

I hope with these poorly prepared comments, you can see where I am going with this.

reply to post by frazzle


It really is interesting that from all political perspectives, we're getting the same basic desires. Gives me a lot of hope for humanity actually!!
Good links too... I actually served in Americorps and it was a great experience!

Originally posted by BubbaJoe
Nice selection of comments, and I know I am going to differ from a lot of folks in here.

Federal, State, and Local ordinances are all required, and of the three, Local Governments scare the living hell out of me. While we all complain about the elites on the Federal scene, many communities, small and large have their own version of the elites, and actually need much smaller numbers to get things passed. That being said, we live in a global economy, not the local economy of 150 years ago, therefore I believe some things need to be regulated, or standard set at a Federal level. I am going to try and give a couple of examples, but don't have everything thought completely through yet.

I certainly agree with you that local governments are scary as hell, but the organization that REALLY scares the hell out of me is the Chamber of Commerce. Its almost impossible for a candidate to win locally when their opponent is backed by the Chamber and this good old boys clique always gets their "man". Do some research to find out some of the crazy $#%^ they've promoted and gotten done all over the country. And each local chamber is joined at the hip with the National organization, so their power is one heck of a lot more intrusive than your city councilman or county commissioner, they are following the dictates of the local moneymen.

Education: For straightforward subjects, English, Math, Civics, etc., I believe there should be national standards, the child from the poorest part of any state has the same right to a standard education in a public school as does a child from a wealthier area in a public school. I would like to include several other science based subjects but do not want to get into the creationism/evolution debate.

There are national standards. And how is that working out?

Environment: Contrary to what many believe, this needs to be set at a national level. What Kansas or Nebraska does to there water supply, can affect me here in Missouri, same with air quality. Same with commerce, because of the environmental laws in the state of California, there are products I can not sell there, and thus California is limiting my ability to turn a profit. Or I can spend more of my profit and re-engineer the product to California standards, if this extended to all 50 states, I could probably have to have 50 different products to sell to 50 different states, which opens a whole other can of worms.

And how the frack is that working out? Far as I can tell, national oversight is killing everybody's cans of worms. If Kansas sends contaminated water to Missouri ~ there are courts for that. And jails, too, if anybody could remember what and who they were created for.