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Why did we need to waste money on NIST investigation ?

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posted on Jun, 12 2012 @ 08:50 AM
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Originally posted by Classified Info

Originally posted by SimontheMagus


Thousands of people have come forward, just as dozens came forward to the 911 Commission Hearings, but every single one of them is written off as a nut job or an idiot...or worse, their testimony is thrown out and they are then issued with gag orders.



Thousands????

Can you provide some links for me so I can see for myself what the actual testimony was of these "thousands" of people who actually came forward?



I actually believed you when you said that You'll give a sencere reply. What would be the point in posting Any links for you ?




posted on Jun, 12 2012 @ 09:57 AM
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reply to post by maxella1
 


I followed and read the link that you posted last night. I gave you my honest opinion of it.

If there is something specific you wanted me to respond to then by all means point it out but in general I think you lost that part of the discussion. I think waypastvne, Reheat, exponent and GoodolDave responses cleared up alot of what you were stating and asking.



posted on Jun, 12 2012 @ 10:15 AM
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Originally posted by GoodOlDave
Originally posted by maxella1


I wasn’t only talking about Jennings and Hess, a lot of people reported explosions. I think you still remember the video of firemen saying there were three secondary explosions in the lobby and then the tower collapsed.



Come now, we both know you're getting that from Richard Gage, and we both know this was referring to the "mysterious explosions six seconds before the collapse" whcih just happens to be the exact same time that the Penthouse collapsed into the interior of the building. Gage all but admits this was what causing the noise himself because he takes pains to snip out the Penthouse collapse from every video he uses to present his case. Why is is you take offense at the FAA destroying tapes and yet you're willing to give Gage a pass at deliberately tampering with his evidence...which I shouldn't need to point out is a heck of a far sight worse.


NOT Richard Gage ..... FDNY firefighters sitting AT ground zero ON 9/11/01, from THEIR OWN MOUTHS. We covered this many times before, I'm surprised that you don't remember. "DEFINITELY SECONDARY EXPLOSIONS" three explosions in the lobby, prior to the collapse. Make a note to yourself somewhere because I'm getting tired of posting the same thing over and over again for you.



Oooooh, naughty naughty! Gage has not proved any such thing and I know this because I looked at his material. Literally all he does is present the same fake information you're doing now, with...


Why are you so obsessed with Gage, Jones , and what's his face ( loose change guy) ? Were you dating and they broke your heart or do they owe you money or what?

All you need to see is WTC 7 imploding, and that is the proof of something in addition to fire and damage from debris were in the building.

And this video is proof that thermate can cut steel.


edit on 12-6-2012 by maxella1 because: (no reason given)

edit on 12-6-2012 by maxella1 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 12 2012 @ 10:46 AM
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reply to post by maxella1
 





And this video is proof that thermate can cut steel.

And so could a team of suicidal Christians with hacksaws. But that doesn't mean they did.

You just can't get past the fact that all the engineers in the world agree that steel loses strength with high heat.



posted on Jun, 12 2012 @ 11:07 AM
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Originally posted by samkent
reply to post by maxella1
 





And this video is proof that thermate can cut steel.

And so could a team of suicidal Christians with hacksaws. But that doesn't mean they did.

You just can't get past the fact that all the engineers in the world agree that steel loses strength with high heat.


I totally agree that steel losses strength with heat. I just don't agree that this is what happened to WTC 7.



posted on Jun, 12 2012 @ 12:34 PM
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Originally posted by maxella1
I totally agree that steel losses strength with heat. I just don't agree that this is what happened to WTC 7.

What do you think stopped the fire from doing damage to the WTC beams and columns? What caused the creaking and sagging described by firefighters on the scene?

I ask because this is exactly what we've been told to look for by people like ae911truth for when a building is destroyed by fire. Despite this you say that fire didn't damage steel in WTC7, so what do you believe?



posted on Jun, 12 2012 @ 12:42 PM
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Originally posted by maxella1
NOT Richard Gage ..... FDNY firefighters sitting AT ground zero ON 9/11/01, from THEIR OWN MOUTHS. We covered this many times before, I'm surprised that you don't remember. "DEFINITELY SECONDARY EXPLOSIONS" three explosions in the lobby, prior to the collapse. Make a note to yourself somewhere because I'm getting tired of posting the same thing over and over again for you.



I regret to say I'm readign this from work so I cannot view the video with sound, for obvious reasons, so I will ask you ONE MORE TIME- were these people referrign to the "explosions" that occurred six seconds before the collapse of WTC 7 or not? If they are, then they're describing the actual structural collapse and you're just quoting what firefighters were saying out of shock and confusion immediately after it happened. If these firefighters continue to claim they were bombs going off ten years after the fact then you will have a point.




Why are you so obsessed with Gage, Jones , and what's his face ( loose change guy) ? Were you dating and they broke your heart or do they owe you money or what?


It's not an obsession, per se. I'm not going to spenf all this time warnign you about all the fake 9/11 information Kim Kardashian is putting out if Kim Kardashian isn't putting out fake 9/11 information. I'm goign to warn you about the fake information Richard Gage and Alex Jones (and yed Dylan Avery) are putting out because they ARE putting out fake information. All this "evidence of conspiracy" is comign from the same handful of peopel over and over and you ARE quoting them, whether you're quoting them directly or through intermediaries.

Case in point-


And this video is proof that thermate can cut steel.


This entire "thermite" hoax was created by Stephen Jones, member of the Journal of 9/11 studies along with Richard Gage, and peer review of his findings determined what he was looking at was paint. His response- completely ignore it and keep repeating the same report that was debunked to begin with.

Can thermite cut steel? I'm sure it can. So can industrial lasers, C4, and probably unicorn farts. That doesn't mean thermite was responsible any more than industrial lasers, C4, or even unicorn farts were responsible. Otherwise, you could explain how thermite caused THIS kind of damage:








posted on Jun, 12 2012 @ 02:14 PM
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Thank you Dave, for demonstrating very nicely that jet fuel was not the culprit here. Thermite is only part of what was used on the main towers, but that thermite didn't twist those beams or toast those 1,400 cars, something else did, and it wasn't jet fuel.

Now you can make up all the fairy tales you want about how this jet fuel from the Plaeiades went down elevator shafts and completely destroyed lobbies 1,200 feet away, but now you'll have to compose a song and dance worthy of Broadway to explain how jet fuel CROSSED LIBERTY STREET and twisted beams in another building. We have a FEMA photo (please do NOT bring Judy Wood into this, as I do not know where FEMA keeps this) of a steel beam at 130 Liberty Street that looks very similar:



Yeah, that steel was so friggin hot that it MELTS OTHER BUILDINGS ON CONTACT


We're supposed to be denying ignorance, but you OS'ers deny even the possibility that the Pentagon cabal behind this event is not in possession of high-tech, unconventional black-ops weaponry. Sorry, but we're just NOT THAT STUPID.

And please, if you're going to respond, could you maybe just once, pretty please, refrain from using the words "secret sinister agents"? I just had lunch, and I don't feel like barfing it up, especially since I did the laundry right before that....



posted on Jun, 12 2012 @ 02:17 PM
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reply to post by SimontheMagus
 


But thermite doesn't work like that. I don't see how you're making sense of this in your world.



posted on Jun, 12 2012 @ 02:44 PM
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Originally posted by SimontheMagus
Thank you Dave, for demonstrating very nicely that jet fuel was not the culprit here. Thermite is only part of what was used on the main towers, but that thermite didn't twist those beams or toast those 1,400 cars, something else did, and it wasn't jet fuel.


You are right, it wasn't jet fuel that twisted these beams. It was tons and tons of falling floor A collapsing down onto stationary floor B which caused it to collapse in turn that twisted the steel, all without thermite, lasers form outer space, or unicorn farts.


Now you can make up all the fairy tales you want about how this jet fuel from the Plaeiades went down elevator shafts and completely destroyed lobbies 1,200 feet away, but now you'll have to compose a song and dance worthy of Broadway to explain how jet fuel CROSSED LIBERTY STREET and twisted beams in another building. We have a FEMA photo (please do NOT bring Judy Wood into this, as I do not know where FEMA keeps this) of a steel beam at 130 Liberty Street that looks very similar:


So are you saying William Rodriguez is a sinsiter secret agent? I'm quoting his eyewitness account to NIST, and the description fits the reasons why a guy in an elevator further up in the tower suddenly wound up down in the basement and heavily burned as well as eyewitness accounts in the lobby of sheets of flames coming from the elevators. All those people must be sinister secret agents as well.

...and I'm not the one bringing up Judy Wood. You are. She's the one insisting there's something sinster about smashed and burned cars, not me.



We're supposed to be denying ignorance, but you OS'ers deny even the possibility that the Pentagon cabal behind this event is not in possession of high-tech, unconventional black-ops weaponry. Sorry, but we're just NOT THAT STUPID.

And please, if you're going to respond, could you maybe just once, pretty please, refrain from using the words "secret sinister agents"? I just had lunch, and I don't feel like barfing it up, especially since I did the laundry right before that....


So what the heck is the difference between "sinister secret agents" and "unconventional black ops Pentagon cabal"? The only difference I can see is that I'm not expressing it in the same flowery prose you prefer to use...the same way "put to sleep" is just a nice and pretty way of saying "killed" without coming out and saying it.

BUT, if you insist, since you're the one painting yourself into a corner with this bit, not me: is William Rodriguez a member of the unconventional black ops Pentagon cabal?



posted on Jun, 12 2012 @ 03:04 PM
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Originally posted by exponent

Originally posted by maxella1
I totally agree that steel losses strength with heat. I just don't agree that this is what happened to WTC 7.

What do you think stopped the fire from doing damage to the WTC beams and columns? What caused the creaking and sagging described by firefighters on the scene?

I ask because this is exactly what we've been told to look for by people like ae911truth for when a building is destroyed by fire. Despite this you say that fire didn't damage steel in WTC7, so what do you believe?


You know exactly what I believe because I told you many time already. My believes didn't change yet.



posted on Jun, 12 2012 @ 04:07 PM
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You guys are truly masters of obfuscation. Go back and look closely at the photo I posted. The beam in 130 Liberty Street was not just twisted Dave, it was MELTED and twisted. You can clearly see the black charring on the end of the beam. Unfortunately for you OS'ers, that's not possible from mere impact.



posted on Jun, 12 2012 @ 04:36 PM
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reply to post by GoodOlDave
 





I regret to say I'm readign this from work so I cannot view the video with sound, for obvious reasons, so I will ask you ONE MORE TIME- were these people referrign to the "explosions" that occurred six seconds before the collapse of WTC 7 or not? If they are, then they're describing the actual structural collapse and you're just quoting what firefighters were saying out of shock and confusion immediately after it happened. If these firefighters continue to claim they were bombs going off ten years after the fact then you will have a point.


They are not talking about WTC 7.




It's not an obsession, per se. I'm not going to spenf all this time warnign you about all the fake 9/11 information Kim Kardashian is putting out if Kim Kardashian isn't putting out fake 9/11 information. I'm goign to warn you about the fake information Richard Gage and Alex Jones (and yed Dylan Avery) are putting out because they ARE putting out fake information. All this "evidence of conspiracy" is comign from the same handful of peopel over and over and you ARE quoting them, whether you're quoting them directly or through intermediaries.


Thank you for looking out. I do not believe Gage anymore than i do Kardashian. To me they're both as credible as you are ( no offense) but i could not care less what any one of you say. I believe my own eyes and the first responders who were on scene. And as you know they reported secondary explosions going off all over the place. Guys like you start imagining what they meant, but I know that if they were talking about steel falling, or firecrackers going off they would not call it secondary explosions. And none of the firemen expected any of the buildings including #7 to completely collapse.

Don't know about thermate... Don't care who came up with it... I dont believe in magic either. Building 7 Had something in it.



posted on Jun, 12 2012 @ 04:48 PM
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Originally posted by Varemia
reply to post by SimontheMagus
 


But thermite doesn't work like that. I don't see how you're making sense of this in your world.



Not that I'm saying thermite was used, (I don't know if it was). But why do you think it cannot be used to cut steel columns?



posted on Jun, 13 2012 @ 10:15 AM
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Originally posted by SimontheMagus
You guys are truly masters of obfuscation. Go back and look closely at the photo I posted. The beam in 130 Liberty Street was not just twisted Dave, it was MELTED and twisted. You can clearly see the black charring on the end of the beam. Unfortunately for you OS'ers, that's not possible from mere impact.


I did...and something about your photo doesn't add up. Here is ANOTHER photo of 130 Liberty street (otherwise known as the Deutschebank building)-

Photo of the damaged Deutschebank Building

You can clearly see the difference between the type of structure the north tower had, and the type of structure the Deutshebank building had- the WTC had hollow box columns, while the DBB had standard I beams. What YOU'RE pointing out in your photo is an I beam, so I have to conclude the "melted and twisted steel" you're pointing out was actually a component of the DBB, not the WTC, so your conclusion is therefore false. This is what happens when you quote those damned fool conspiracy web sites- they're specifically out to embellish their in-house conspiracy stories and they don't care if what they say is even true.

...and as for why we "need to waste money on investigations", the reason is now obvious- that photo was taken by FEMA.



posted on Jun, 13 2012 @ 10:32 AM
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Originally posted by maxella1
Thank you for looking out. I do not believe Gage anymore than i do Kardashian. To me they're both as credible as you are ( no offense) but i could not care less what any one of you say. I believe my own eyes and the first responders who were on scene. And as you know they reported secondary explosions going off all over the place. Guys like you start imagining what they meant, but I know that if they were talking about steel falling, or firecrackers going off they would not call it secondary explosions. And none of the firemen expected any of the buildings including #7 to completely collapse.


That has to be one of the most intellectually dishonest thing I've seen you say. I already posted the eyewitness account of deputy fire chief Peter Hayden who was physically there at WTC 7 and he specifically said he knew from the damage the fires were causing that WTC 7 was going to collapse. I know you've seen it.

..and what do you mean by "your own eyes". Were you there? I've talked to people who worked in the south tower so they WERE there, and they say you conspiracy people are full of it. Why should I believe your eyes over their eyes?



posted on Jun, 13 2012 @ 10:43 AM
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Originally posted by GoodOlDave
You can clearly see the difference between the type of structure the north tower had, and the type of structure the Deutshebank building had- the WTC had hollow box columns, while the DBB had standard I beams. What YOU'RE pointing out in your photo is an I beam, so I have to conclude the "melted and twisted steel" you're pointing out was actually a component of the DBB, not the WTC, so your conclusion is therefore false.


Yeah, so??

Here's what I said:

"Go back and look closely at the photo I posted. The beam in 130 Liberty Street was not just twisted Dave, it was MELTED and twisted."

That's exactly the point. The melted beam belongs to 130 Liberty Street, a serious problem for the OS, in fact, an insurmountable one.

You really need to take a break, I think.



posted on Jun, 13 2012 @ 11:47 AM
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Originally posted by SimontheMagus

Originally posted by GoodOlDave
You can clearly see the difference between the type of structure the north tower had, and the type of structure the Deutshebank building had- the WTC had hollow box columns, while the DBB had standard I beams. What YOU'RE pointing out in your photo is an I beam, so I have to conclude the "melted and twisted steel" you're pointing out was actually a component of the DBB, not the WTC, so your conclusion is therefore false.


Yeah, so??

Here's what I said:

"Go back and look closely at the photo I posted. The beam in 130 Liberty Street was not just twisted Dave, it was MELTED and twisted."

That's exactly the point. The melted beam belongs to 130 Liberty Street, a serious problem for the OS, in fact, an insurmountable one.

You really need to take a break, I think.


OR, you need to find a conspiracy theory and then stick with it instead of grasping at random straws out of desperation. Are you seriously suggesting these secret thermite charges were planted in the Deutschebank building too? Or are you saying when the north tower collapsed it spread its own secret thermite charges to other buildings like a virus?

The only "insurmoundable problem" I'm seeing is in your defense of these absurd conspiracy theories of yours, as nothing in the "OS" as you call it even mentions the Deutschebank building outside of "it was damaged by the collapse of the north tower".



posted on Jun, 13 2012 @ 11:57 AM
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Originally posted by maxella1

Not that I'm saying thermite was used, (I don't know if it was). But why do you think it cannot be used to cut steel columns?


Bad logic- you're making an unsupported assumption and then basing a question on the assuption as if it were true. It's like my asking you "why do you think unicorn farts cannot be used to cut steel columns". It makes the assumption that unicorn farts are actually a legitimate point of argument in the discussion.

This whole "thermite" bit was introduced by that truther Steven Jones, and peer review has shown the thermite he found was actually paint so that should have been the end of it. I find it odd that you question the rationale behind the NIST investigation and yet you're willing to pursue this nonstop debate on the findings of another investigation that has irrefutably been shown to be false. Do as I say and not as I do, anyone?



posted on Jun, 13 2012 @ 12:07 PM
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Originally posted by GoodOlDave
Are you seriously suggesting these secret thermite charges were planted in the Deutschebank building too? Or are you saying when the north tower collapsed it spread its own secret thermite charges to other buildings like a virus?


Of course there were no "secret thermite charges" in the DBB. SOMETHING was used on the WTC to pulverize the steel, and it caused superheating. This is obvious just from watching the pyroclastic-type cloud form in collapse videos as they're coming down. Whatever it was caused the beam in the DBB to get severed from super high heat just from being contacted by the falling debris from the south tower. I don't know what it was, maybe ULF technology, some kind of SDI stuff. I know the Pentagon has this in black ops. It's what they used on the Minneapolis Bridge collapse. This would explain the toasted cars, and the molten pools, and the pulverization of the towers. The bottom line? It wasn't jet fuel, and the Boogeyman Bin Laden didn't do it... the CIA did it.



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