Were you in the "Gifted Program" ?

a reply to: Roundtree

Yeah? And where are you now? Lets be clear here, this is the US we are talking about where the education system is a joke...so gifted there would be special needs in say China, or below average in one of the other western countries.


Americans love to reward mediocrity amongst the kids in class...."come on boy, you can do it, here is a ribbon for taking part".......gifted....its ironic really isn't it!!

originally posted by: projectbane
a reply to: Roundtree

Yeah? And where are you now? Lets be clear here, this is the US we are talking about where the education system is a joke...so gifted there would be special needs in say China, or below average in one of the other western countries.


Americans love to reward mediocrity amongst the kids in class...."come on boy, you can do it, here is a ribbon for taking part".......gifted....its ironic really isn't it!!

The program under discussion was started in 1957 as a response to Russia launching Sputnik. Its goal was to raise intelligent children in such a way that America would surge ahead in science and technology. Result? Apollo, the Space Shuttle, the microchip, personal computing, cell phones... etc. It worked. Unfortunately complacency has set in and it has become politically incorrect to acknowledge that some people have greater aptitude in some areas than others.

a reply to: rukia

Though I doubt it's related, I just want to say that both my sister and I (both were in the T&G) had issues with eating disorders. She struggled with bulimia and I was like you, anorexic with purging (plus an unhealthy appreciation for Ex-Lax because just vomiting "wasn't thorough enough"). Even the smart can be total morons and for the smart, sometimes, their idiocy can truly no no bounds. You absolutely have to watch that mind of yours because, like any other mind, it can be prone to different illnesses. Probably the biggest issue is that we think we're so smart that we can handle it. Do stop. My fight with anorexia stopped 20 years ago when it was found that I had a 6 inch nearly perforated lesion in my esophagus, damaged stomach valves, and "hundreds" of ulcerations throughout my intestines. My intestines and stomach valve were failing. Even though I've not been an anorexic for those 20 years, I have tremendous amounts of scar tissue so a little flu can cause my digestive system to stop working properly or drinking a cold drink the wrong way causes extraordinary pain. Remind yourself that anorexia isn't you being in supreme control of yourself. It's the absolute opposite. Survive yourself and heal, please, before you end up bearing scars of the disorder til the end of your days.

originally posted by: DJW001

originally posted by: projectbane
a reply to: Roundtree

Yeah? And where are you now? Lets be clear here, this is the US we are talking about where the education system is a joke...so gifted there would be special needs in say China, or below average in one of the other western countries.


Americans love to reward mediocrity amongst the kids in class...."come on boy, you can do it, here is a ribbon for taking part".......gifted....its ironic really isn't it!!

The program under discussion was started in 1957 as a response to Russia launching Sputnik. Its goal was to raise intelligent children in such a way that America would surge ahead in science and technology. Result? Apollo, the Space Shuttle, the microchip, personal computing, cell phones... etc. It worked. Unfortunately complacency has set in and it has become politically incorrect to acknowledge that some people have greater aptitude in some areas than others.

Hold up there, partner. You're traipsing into what would seem logical but is actually making an assumption that those things and the programs are necessarily related. Yes, the programs were mandated by the NDEA after Sputnik in order to provide those things; however, whether they did or not is questionable at best. You need to stop and ask yourself "is it true?" I have looked through so many scholarly papers on the subject and there has only been a few times where any "outcomes" based longitudinal assessments have been done are on these subjects--Terman's "Termites" (pre-Sputnik), Project Talent (not even gifted specific), and a study on--are you ready for this?--whether or not we became self-actualized. Self actualization does not mean we became the engineers behind Apollo, personal computing and etc.

If there were any research performed on whether the programs were effective for the specific goals of the program as laid out by the original NDEA of 1958, then they were never published in any way or were sealed. The only thing that I've seen come up again and again has been the psychological health of the gifted and the other consistency with that is that they've never done a full assessment of those outcomes either once those kids grow up. Stuff like this instead:
www.sengifted.org...

They don't know how many of us, instead of thriving, turned to drug/alcohol abuse or how many of us simply committed suicide and that's really interesting to me. When Congress mandated the gifted programs into being, the field that they placed in charge of the development of those programs were psychologists so that would explain the interest in our mental health. Additionally, the Act's intentions were not specifically for just engineers, mathematicians and scientists.

the discovery of intelligent and talented young men and women and stimulating them to devote themselves to the sciences, foreign languages, technology, and in general to those intellectual pursuits that will enrich personal life, strengthen resistance to totalitarianism (lol!), and enhance the quality of American leadership on the international scene.

ektron.nagc.org...

The bold portions (and lol! obviously) are my additions but those are to highlight the portions of the NDEA's purpose of developing the gifted programs that are wholly outside of this drive for engineers, mathematicians, and scientists. The entire paper is worth a read. The reasons why psychologists were selected to do this were pretty simple--they were presumed better able to uncover a way to identify gifted children as well as attempt to assure their mental well being (that old adage of the fine line probably had some play there) and encourage their creativity.

Again though, whether it's been successful or not is impossible to say. If it was, they never published those results (other than the self-actualization thing) in any journal that found its way into a university library or database. It's just not there.

Going for a triple post but I found this to be too humorous of a realization based on following snippet of the above quote in regards to the NDEA of 1958 and the presence of the former gifted students on conspiracy forums.

strengthen resistance to totalitarianism

Totalitarianism would be defined as a political situation in which the state holds total authority over society and seeks to control all aspects of their public and private lives. I can almost guarantee that this strengthening the resistance to totalitarianism is the primary driving force amongst us all, whether the source being viewed as external, internal or examination of that state. In other words, we all are likely to have different assessments of the level of totalitarianism that exists and so, may even have opposite views. However, our presence on these and similar boards where the subject is most likely to be freely vetted out points to a probable success in that aspect of the gifted programs.

I find that thought kind of humorous.

a reply to: Roundtree

I was in one of those programs. On one standardized test I took, the Connecticut Mastery Exam, I scored in the 99th percentile out of over 48,000 students. From there my 5th grade teacher said that I should take some high school equivalency exams and I passed. The only thing stopping me from skipping from 5th to 9th grade was my family. My mom said I couldn't live with her if I skipped because I would be disobeying her and my dad was out of town for work so I couldn't stay there. My teacher, an ex Special Forces drill instructor, said that he would let me live with him for free in a spare bedroom. And that my family was pretty frigging twisted for preventing me from reaching my potential.

I decided to not skip because I was tired of my family telling me how different I would be and "Don't you have enough problems with bullying" and I got fed up. So I stuck it out in 6th grade for the whole year, literally being asleep for 3/4s of a class and still passing with flying colors. But when 7th grade rolled around, I went a little stir crazy from being intellectually under stimulated. I started getting angry and talking back to teachers, sometimes correcting them and showing that I was smarter than they were. I started offering cash for homework and got about 60 people to sign up with me. And then I exploded one day and got sent to juvie for cracking a kid's skull on the floor and breaking the D.A.R.E officer's nose.

I'm glad that I didn't go to high school though. There is a hidden agenda in these "gifted" programs. I would've been sent down the rabbit's hole so to speak and I would never have found the truth. I would still be a bookworm with his nose so close to the grindstone that I couldn't see what was happening right in front of me. Those gifted programs promote an addiction, the greatest that humanity will ever know, the quest for more knowledge.

After all, when you have three different AP classes to study for, why would you notice the government slowly passing laws that restrict our freedom and encroach on the founding legal documents of our nation?

a reply to: WhiteAlice

Thank you very much for your advice--I will take it. You gave me a much-needed reminder. I don't really know how best to express the gratitude I feel toward you for your kind and heartfelt reply. So I guess a star will have to do--that, and me going downstairs right now to go and make myself eat because you are correct and I need to fight this. I have been giving in far too much lately.

What has been scaring me recently is, I think that maybe I never really recovered in the first place and just repressed it for a time--which took immense energy and left me feeling very drained after 2 years--and now it is coming back full force. I have taken an inordinate amount of time to write this post because I know that I must be subconsciously avoiding going downstairs to fulfill my promise to eat something because the thought of it makes me get an awful sinking feeling akin to panic.

Because I believe it has become entrenched, do you think that I would be wise in seeking help? I had been browsing residential places for a bit, back when i first started relapsing this spring, but I talked myself out of it saying that I was making a big deal out of nothing. I feel like everything I try to do to make myself snap out of it isn't working and I'm starting to get worried that I'll not be able to snap out of it at all.

a reply to: rukia

You're welcome and I'm glad that you ate something. I was in a day treatment program for it myself and while I joke about some of the stuff that they did as being silly, they did do some things right. There's something to be said about knowing your nemesis well. I don't think anorexia is ever quite one of those things that one can totally overcome. It's like being a junky really. Even if you've "beaten" the addiction, you never quite stop being an addict. There will still be days where I don't eat nearly as much as I should. I just make myself eat something when I realize what I've been doing right then and there and start scolding the crap out of myself. I don't know how much is the eating disorder program or whether it's all me to be honest but I always remember that I am a "junky". I got rid of measuring tapes and scales 20 years ago and never looked back. Those things aren't allowed in my house because I can't be trusted with them and that's what you've got to do. You have to get rid of the tools of the addiction and be ever vigilant. If you think you are getting entrenched, you can go back in but the only person that can really fight for your life and health is you. They can't save you. You have to save yourself even if it's from yourself.

Hang in there and remember you really are the one in control over whether you eat or not even if it feels like you're out of control. All it takes is will and knowing when to tell yourself to f off and do the right thing for you.

Ah, a resurrected thread appealing to people's egos... hmmmm... did I post on this already?

Oh well, here too... the dreaded "gifted and talented" program from the 70's-80's... people in suits, testing... heck, I was so quiet (appalled by my brethren, really) I thought I was getting put into the "special class."

Ruined me for life...spent my high school years bitterly proving I wasn't going to be their dancing monkey, making better weapons and screwing the serfs... and now I'm not... and boy, am I poor!

So... was that smart? Heh... but really, there are several sorts of intelligence...

a reply to: Baddogma

I think we should give the gifted programs a new tagline:

T&G--Tagging and Bagging the Malcontents and Contrarians since 1958

There are all sorts of intelligence and they picked up on the fact that I was smart alright. I just think that there was a slight clerical snafu when they were transcribing my evaluation notes from the yellow pad because they missed the three letter word immediately following "smart".

a reply to: WhiteAlice

Heh... man I love your posts. And so true.

And by the way, the advice to Rukia was great... I've known too many wonderful women ruined by this society's attitudes and the result is young females (and a few males) feeling powerless and taking some control with their food intake... sigh.

Well, with me, it was certain substances with little nutritional value...

And that dreaded "smarty pants" nemesis of being frequently smarter than the folks in the psych care industry... thinking back to my rehab experience, I don't remember one counselor who didn't end up confiding their troubles to me... when I was an unemployed drug felon... go figure.

a reply to: Baddogma

LMAO. It's okay. It took mine a while to figure out that I was deliberately messing with them about 90% of the time before they decided I was hopeless and cut me loose. Told me to pretty much figure it out since I was so darn smart. And yes, there was a bit of snark in there for sure. I blame the imp that possesses me from time to time and compels me to do some of the damnedest things. I probably needed an exorcist and not a therapist. Bad call on their part...

I tell you though, we may be broke but we know how to truly have a good time when we want to. The whole world can be our playground for our hijinks. A little too much of the Homo Ludens running in me, which is pretty funny because usually on these boards I come off about as colorful as a brand new coloring book. Not on ATS, my hero is Diogenes the Cynic.

Anyways, thanks. I hope it helped Rukia, too. Mine got bad not so much because I wanted to meet society's mold. It was a challenge. Not all challenges are a good thing and god knows I'm OCD so it just made it that much worse. Yep...

We can look at the bright side though... At least we can't be put in a nuthouse. They closed them.

Gonna drop this here as this was my T&G theme song. Figure some of the others in the ATS T&G Old Folks Home might enjoy it.

I can relate to many of these posts as a former GATE student (especially the lack of memories of the program and of numerous hearing and sight tests).

A few of the memories I seem to have "recovered" of school seem to all revolve around one specific elementary school teacher and how I disliked that he seemed to do nothing about all the boys picking on one certain boy. I guess it could be simply explained that this teacher was an asshole...but I figured I might ask if anyone else remembers anything at all similar--kids being "singled out" or even demeaned by a teacher?

A lot of girls also had serious issues that were in his class later years--they would withdraw/get depressed under his tutelage and act out later in teenaged years (about one per tiny class/year). Bulimia/anorexia, severe self-esteem issues, dropping out of school, drug abuse, & sexual precociousness seemed to be the defining theme.

Thank you all very much for posting these interesting memories about the "Gifted programs" you were a part of during childhood. I actually found this website/thread after watching a movie called 'American Ultra' - ironic, I know...which is essentially about MK Ultra and a "sleeper" agent, etc etc.

I have been tested several times for intelligence throughout my life that I can recall.

The first time I was in Kindergarten. After taking some rudimentary "intelligence" tests, I met with a specialist with my mom there. They ran several exams and concluded I was highly intelligent for my age, but lacked concentration and was deemed "too distracted, hyperactive" (mind you, this was in the early 90's).

In Elementary school I surpassed my peers every year, earning top honors and the "Presidential Award" (the top two academic scorers per grade were awarded this yearly) in 1st, 2nd and 3rd grade. (I have pictures where I got to ride in a limo to go get lunch for scoring the highest on our standardized test for the school) but I don't actually recall much from this time period, other than various broken memories and drawing my 'inventions' on paper while class was going on. (Basically cars that doubled as helicopters - lol)

In 4th grade my family moved to another city nearby a military base. The local elementary school was brand new and I loved it there. I continued to be placed in the advanced classes along with the other students and then one day I remember being taken out of class early in the year. I was brought into another 'portable' classroom with about 10-15 other kids. I didn't recognize any of them and weren't sure if they were even in the same grade. It was nearly 2-3 weeks where I would go for a full hour and do psychological tests. I do remember some 'ink blot' tests, but I believe those were just for fun and were in a different setting.

I do however remember doing learning Chinese math in 4th grade. We literally learned 1-100 and had to practice writing the symbols for a short amount of time. Once we got comfortable with it, they timed us as we did math problems in Chinese. It was really weird and I thought it was completely stupid that I had to do this and didn't want to continue. This is the only thing that has really stuck out in my mind as "conspiratorial" given the political climate over the past 20 years (I wish I would've been recruited as a spy or something and trained professionally rather than let coast through the grid) if that's actually what was going on. But I regress.

I have several friends from that time whom I am still close with, and none of them recall anything like this. I've asked my parents about it, and they have no clue at all other than the regular 'advanced placement' settings I was in through the school.

I continued scoring at the tops of my classes through elementary and into Jr High. I remember in middle school having another weird experience taking intelligence tests. (I only say weird because I had no friends who were doing it and was again with some kids my age that I didn't know).

I remember very specifically having a man run a few worksheets worth of tests and have me look over pages full of numbers in very small print and would ask me to find the "5" or whatever number. I remember finding them almost instantly and still to this day have very fast reaction to this type of activity, or anything with pattern recognition.

Nothing ever came from these tests that I can tell. I continued in National Honors society from 7th - 10th grade and subsequently decided that school was a waste of my time, I could coast with C's and literally not do any homework and just play video games all of the time.


Anyways, is this some sort of conspiracy? I doubt it. I'm sure kids that display high signs of intelligence get advanced testing all of the time as they would want to maximize their potential.


As for the whole Star/Indigo child thing?
Sounds like a crock of # to me.
Yeah, I display all of those characteristics - but most borderline autistic/aspergers syndrome people do. Yeah, I have unexplained asthma as an adult but I've figured out on my own that it's just food allergies and have completely ditched my inhaler, because # wheat.

...

a reply to: Roundtree

I was in the gifted program. They called it "Gifted & Talented" or GT for short. My lowest IQ score (when tested at age 5) was 156 in math. Keep in mind that IQ levels change over time. I have no idea what my IQ is currently.

a reply to: Roundtree

Yeah, got on the radar with national tests, then took the official test in 3rd grade. I would imagine there is a record of the cohort throughout life. People like to be able to predict things and researchers are a curious bunch.

I started getting tests very early in school. I started school early and was double promoted twice. As a result I was very small compared to my classmates for regular classes. Add to that the idea that I outscored them on the tests, and it was pretty rough. I ended up giving back one of the double promotions to get me more in sync socially which ended up being a good move. I still did well and tested high but I was also much happier and less stubborn in regards to the testing. Sometimes there are more important things than the score.

Well folks I've been looking for this thread for a long time. Been searching the internet and finally found it here at my good old ATS which I read every night. I too was a subject of this experiment starting in 83 at 8 yrs old. I experienced all that has been stated, going to a different school 1 day a week with others from other schools, iq tests and a plethora of other tests. We did things others couldn't imagine. We had Apple 2e computers and were taught to program on them. When I went to 6th grade I missed the bus to go to my special class one day. This brought on so much anxiety that I literally had to pretend to be sick and go home. I did this continuous until I finally told my mom that I couldn't go to my special class anymore. To this day, I am sure there is some kind of reason for this. Although I don't remember something happened. After that I went from going to high school for advanced classes while I was in junior high to not giving a darn. I feel something I don't remember happened. Remember the years this happened. One of my fellow "gifted" friends commited suicide in highschool. If anyone has a similar suppressed memory please assist. Thanks for listening.