Before The Big Bang

reply to post by CLPrime


"It's the same with the quantum vacuum. Initially, the universe was 100% vacuum - that is, space at its lowest energy state for this given system (the system being the entire infinite universe). Then, spontaneously, that energy state collapsed, releasing an immense amount of energy (like you falling down the mine shaft). "


i still cant picture what the spontaneously collapsing energy state would be like,, how all the energy was linked... why this occurred in one particular area of infinite space....

is the quantum vacuum, pre energy state collapse, ( you say, space is the lowest energy state) energetic and physical? I guess i need energy defined, and i guess i thought energy was physical and everything but space....

reply to post by ImaFungi


Physically, energy is photons. Energy can also be a quantity contained by objects (such as kinetic and thermal energy - kinetic energy is force acting to move an object over a distance, and thermal energy is the kinetic energy of vibrating particles).

In this case, however, the vacuum energy is all potential. It's "contained" by the vacuum, but it doesn't yet physically exist. This "hidden" vacuum energy is also called zero-point energy, and people want to tap into it as an energy source. The risk here, of course, is that getting the vacuum to release its potential energy in one location could cause the vacuum everywhere to collapse, causing another Big Bang.

reply to post by CLPrime


I had a vision last night, it came in the form of a thought-story and I will title this story "The Last Moment" in line with Isaac Asimov's short stories "The Last Question" and "The Last Answer".

...In the beginning it was pure, childlike really, the imagination run wild with fractal coloring books on the scale of the infinite, meaning this was a place of no-time, where dreams and unconsciousness also share the same reality, where anything and everything you could think of is possible. No sooner had I started playing that I realized I wasn't the only player in the game, if I was here, then "here" had to be something seperate I was located in. Thus the birth of duality of energy was born. Birth, meaning I had realized that all of my thought-creation had physical-manifestation. And this was raw energy, like Lego bricks, each Peg had its own socket. It started off basic, what had happened? I asked. The first thought that came to mind was that the singularity had impacted the ether and strewn apart everything across the vastness of existence...

...Across the warmth of the electric glow of the All, as I sat back admiring all that I had created, I noticed that some of the glow began to glow-less, and here's when I thought, hmm so entropy does exist after all, I kinda figured this was coming, due to the law of thermodynamics, a warm source will always distribute its warmth to a cold source. Thus the midlife crisis, the tipping point, the apex of the bell curve of the abundance of energy within the All had been reached, and it started getting colder, and darker...

... It had been so long I had forgotten what the stars had looked like, the only thing left were the minute specs of light that slowly extinguished themselves around me, How did it get to this point? I asked. I couldn't even remember the point of it all in the first place. And as all the light around me had vanished I felt this immense draw, this feeling of attraction that emanated through my core, I was being pulled towards something, Although I had no body, I could tell my thoughts were moving, racing, towards a destination unknown. And in the center of my focus I thought I saw the faintest little spec, "Finally" I said, something "is" in here...

...I Rushed towards the point as fast as my thoughts could carry me, but I had reached a point where I lost control over speed and direction and started tumbling, end over end, side over side towards the inevitable, I was gonna be stuck in this cyclic tumbling forever I had thought. But I noticed something, the point had grown in size immensely, and now it was so big it was taking up my whole field of perspective, it was at this last moment, that the final thought occurred to me, hurtling towards this point I thought, "Holy shiiiii...it's reeeaaaaalllllllyyyyyyyyyyyy haapppppppeeeeeennnnnnnnniiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiinnnnnnnnnnnggggggggggggggggggg.... !

...and I had realized I had come full circle, that the spec I saw was the singularity, but I didn't see the singularity as a separate entity, the singularity was merely reflecting off of the mirror of the ether, the ether being the female egg, for which the male singularity seed to impregnate and hatch the continuation of life for I was still here even after the most massive release of energy that could possibly be conceived...

...And then, In the beginning it was pure, childlike really, the imagination run wild with fractal coloring books on the scale of the infinite, meaning this was a place of no-time...

I don't believe we can even start to fathom our universe, in our current state.

It is fun to speculate though, for that is all we can do at this point. Unless we somehow gain an immense amount of technological evolution that allows us to do experiments that prove the laws about the universe.

I've always though Duality is how our universe works. Everything positive comes with a negative, to balance it out. That just seems to be present in every aspect of our universe. But then bringing entropy into the situation changes things a bit. That would allow for many positive things to happen, without balance, thus increasing the entropy. That can be vice versa too, I believe.

Just remember, we cannot start to know, unless we admit to ourselves that we do not know.


If anyone knows of any physics type opportunites in or around Lexington, KY, let me know. I'm very interested in it.

reply to post by Trappenin


I really don't see us finding any solution or bold leap in technology until we can integrate the variable of conciousness into the grand unified theory. I think that conciousness could be the singularity. And that our conciousness is the result of energy flowing through matter. X

Originally posted by CLPrime
The risk here, of course, is that getting the vacuum to release its potential energy in one location could cause the vacuum everywhere to collapse, causing another Big Bang.

I am suddenly reminded of young einstein (the movie) where he figured out how to make bubbles in beer by splitting a beer atom


I wonder, if we can get vacuum energy up and running, maybe it can put bubbles in chocolate bars easier...

Originally posted by CLPrime
reply to post by ChaoticOrder

 

Right, and that's why I favour an infinite universe. I loathe the initial singularity theory, and the infinite flat universe is both supported by evidence (no matter what Spy66 says, as you well know) and the simplest way to solve both the "where did time come from?" and the "what is the universe expanding into?" questions. It takes the least amount of effort to just exist.

Motion needs time to occur and time needs motion to be relied. Time past present and future could very well be the completed fourth dimension. time therefore could be an observation issue where we are not realizing that time does not move but rather we move through time. We move through time by way of motion as we know time dilation being a known fact. All energy where some of that energy makes up all matter could be an elaborate Russian doll set, if I may use that analogy, where from beginning to the end of the Universe is a reciprocating Russian doll set of time. Because energy never expands nor multiplies as the law of energy conservation dictates it simply changes form and disperses through the Universe, and as nothing travels through the Universe in a straight trajectory it will inevitably come crashing together once again to form another primeval atom to repeat time all over again like a recording once the needle hits the venal, the Bib Bang.

reply to post by LilDudeissocool


I was agreeing with you right up until the ultimate crashing together part. There is no need for such an event. If space continues to expand, then the opposite will happen - matter/energy will ultimately get so dispersed that the universe will seem to have practically nothing in it (just sparse radiation).

reply to post by ChaoticOrder


First off, very well done sir! S and F for you!

It is stll kinda way to early to call the debate about curved vs. Flat space resolved. The evidence is pretty good both ways, which I find both funny but sad at the same time. Also I would like to ask a few questions about your theory concerning space, time and matter.

1. We know with considerable certainty that E does in fact = the square of the speed of light multiplied by the mass of the object. It is still classified as a theory, but it is so well proven it is carved into the bedrock of modern physics. If matter and space had an equivelence, than I am sure it would have been noticed, when space was being created as we released energy.

A. Or do you refer to the theory you mentioned about flat space, as we would not notice this expansion in a flat infinite space vs. An expanding curved space?

B. Also if matter and space were the same thing, then I would in theory be able to transmute, all space into matter and trap it inside a singularity right? One of say infinite mass? Like the one at the start of the big bang maybe? Which is one of the reasons for our current state of understanding. So how do you acount for the apparent seperation of space/time as understood in general relativity from matter/energy?

C. Once again, very good thread

2. You also mentioned that our perception of reality would be far different from what reality actually looks like. This is actually somthing to think about, the ramifications of reality being different than what we perceive across the entirty of humanity seems like some kind of creepy matrix kinda stuff. Or more well put perhaps, would be to say that our 5 senses limit what we can interigate out of our envirnment. Perhaps even 1000 senses would not be enough for our limited minds to make sense of it all and thus see the world as it is, instead of how we perceve it.

Originally posted by ChaoticOrder

Originally posted by LilDudeissocool
reply to post by ChaoticOrder

 

Before "The Big Bang" was a big crunch. The Universe recreates itself over and over again.

But when did that cycle start and where did the energy come from? There needs to a logical reason why such a cycle would initiate. My theory does describe a cycle of sorts, however it explains where the energy required for that cycle comes from (negative energy) as well as why the energy comes into existence (space-time turbulence).

It very well could be infinite links to higher dimensional events that also repeat themselves. That's a bit too abstract for this venue and would lead to a never never land of digression, so I'll leave such a would be conversation alone.

I will say this due to the law of energy conservation we know that energy is not a product of this Universe. It's origin must be higher than the forth dimension. You know like an ant if it could pondering where did the rain drop come from that landed on his anthill. Take that apology further in applying it to the story "Flatland" What would a raindrop be to one of characters in that book? What if the raindrop filled flatland with all that was in Flatland. If you can conceive what I am saying, there is our primeval atom which contained all energy that filled our entire universe with all that is. It's just a rain drop of pure energy that is everything on the electromagnetic spectrum.

Somewhere hydrogen and oxygen formed water. Somewhere energy was created in a realm not of this one.

Originally posted by CLPrime
reply to post by LilDudeissocool

 

I was agreeing with you right up until the ultimate crashing together part. There is no need for such an event. If space continues to expand, then the opposite will happen - matter/energy will ultimately get so dispersed that the universe will seem to have practically nothing in it (just sparse radiation).

I was agreeing with you right up until the ultimate crashing together part. There is no need for such an event. If space continues to expand, then the opposite will happen - matter/energy will ultimately get so dispersed that the universe will seem to have practically nothing in it (just sparse radiation).

I think you and I have been over this same question before together on another thread a while back, but here it is again. How is it that all the separated energy in the end is on a straight trajectory? "Sparse radiation" has to be in order to keep travailing infinitely away from all other "sparse radiation."

I guess "sparse radiation" would be what the primeval atom was comprise of then.

It must be right?

reply to post by LilDudeissocool
you will one day find out that black holes are the portals in which

reply to post by LastProphet527


-are the gateways to the higher dimensions where energy is created, and when the final black hole is created with "sparse radiation" that will collapse into a primeval atom once again recreating the universe. Repeating this universe in all events that happen within it being repeated in the same exact order. This means will be having this conversation all over again probably trillions of years from now as we probably did trillions of years ago.

When motion of the Big Bang rebounds into existence once more time/space will be born out of it. This is because when energy is separated from its source it creates a universe like this one for eternity.

reply to post by LilDudeissocool


Who says the radiation all has to be travelling away from other radiation?

reply to post by CLPrime


If its not it will all boomerang back together at some point.

So is a blackhole the remnants of a collapsed star? If so would the centre of our galaxy be the remnants of a collapsed star? I'm in over my head here but is it possible that maybe back somewhere in the past things were alot bigger than they are today? lets say that our galaxy was once a star, it exploded and collapsed etc and here we are. Would that answer the big bang theory whilst answering the age od question of how we got here and now we are being sucked back in f'd if I know, I think I might skip this one.. this aint my subject...

reply to post by LilDudeissocool


It won't do that at all. The radiation would travel in straight lines in random directions...some towards other particles, some away...all over the place. This means that, on average, the radiation won't be getting any more or less dense on its own. But, of course, space is expanding, so that causes the radiation get less dense with time. After billions of years, this would lead to such vast distances between particles that a person could travel indefinitely without coming across even a single photon.

reply to post by SedatedSon


Be careful of the use of the term "bigger." It leads people in thinking in terms of volume. More volume can mean more total mass within a localized vicinity which allows gravity to collapse the martial into a smaller more compact area.

When you espouse your theory I'm thinking a super red giant. There can't be one in this universe because it would be a tiny super condensed star. Maybe resembling more of a brown dwarf than any active star.

reply to post by SedatedSon


Stellar black holes are the cores of stars that have gravitationally collapsed.
As for supermassive (galactic) black holes, they form because the centers of galaxies are full of dense material. This isn't star-making material because it's too big and unstable, but it's obviously perfect for black hole formation.

Originally posted by CLPrime
reply to post by LilDudeissocool

 

It won't do that at all. The radiation would travel in straight lines in random directions...some towards other particles, some away...all over the place. This means that, on average, the radiation won't be getting any more or less dense on its own. But, of course, space is expanding, so that causes the radiation get less dense with time. After billions of years, this would lead to such vast distances between particles that a person could travel indefinitely without coming across even a single photon.

Okay I can bend my mind into thinking that for theoretical abstract purposes, but "How is this radiation going to pass through time if it can't make space by moving across space?" No mass, nor gravity, no time, no movement.