Will Europe Help America In WW3? Should They?

reply to post by bjarneorn


Interesting analogy. Yet, both are gone. Your NWO is, by conception and implimentation, "Old World". The single barrier to the NWO is the U.S., as infected as it is. Hence, the unending Black P.R.of the U.S.. The internally caused, externally ran, degradation of the U.S. lies at your door.
It's you who plays into the NWO's plans. No U.S.? It's over, no further barriers will remain to full defeat.
It's, at most, a ten year job to truely fix the U.S. economy. Yours? Can it even be done? I don't see how.
"The enemy of my enemy is my friend" .Knowingly or not, I see you in the NWO camp. there is no other explanation I can see....

reply to post by ElectricUniverse


Container ships? Useless unless you can defend them. Let's see, anti-ship missiles, Mark-48 torpedoes, even conventional cruise Missiles would take container ships out with ease. Not happening unless a defense system is developed. If our Carrier Task forces are exposed in coastal waters with their defense systems, do you really believe that "cantainers" aren't?

reply to post by Tardacus


Monetize The debt, default the T-Bills, lots of ways for the chinese financial dominance is negated overnight. No collapse, just a whole bunch of "new" industry that has to be rebuilt in the U.S. in a hurry....

reply to post by nwtrucker


offensive anti-ship missiles can be launched from containers.

reply to post by bjarneorn


What part is arrogant? Its a fact the next top 10 navies combine= americas naval strength. Without a naval landing you cant invade America from China. And just how do you imagine in your head china sinking all those carriers?

reply to post by cosmicts



You're assuming China will be launching an invasion of the US in war time when that isn't necessarily the case.
China has enough corvettes and cruisers to simply pound the US' West Coast with both long and short range missile systems.
Add to that the biological, chemical and incendiary missiles that China has stowed away and the fact they have only developed a brand new Fighter Jet (J-20) you can see how China could seriously punish the US during a war.
China doesn't need to invade the US to win its war. All it needs is to dominate the Asia-Pacific for long enough to launch a few hundred missiles and destroy a couple dozen US warships. Look at what happened in Pearl Harbor, the Japanese struck with part of their strength and decimated the US Navy. If they had utilized their full strength in a pre-emptive strike (As the Admiral in charge suggested doing) then the US would have been knocked from the war before it knew what hit it.

So, let me reiterate for those who didn't get the jist of the above paragraph.
China doesn't need to launch an invasion of the US. All it needs is to use short to medium range missiles to destroy US forces in Asia before sending scores of warships with long, medium and short range missiles to flatten the West Coast. Once the West coast has been utterly shattered they can fall back to simply defending China from a US reply.
Sure, the war would hurt China deeply but it can easily overcome a hundred million or two hundred million casualties and still work at the same relative rate.
The US however, can't take ten or twenty million casualties without it compromising their economic, political, industrial and military dominance.

Also, If a US-China war does break out then Russia will step in and use its own ICBMs to pound the US West Coast and Cuba will utilize its own Russian- built ICBMs to really hurt the US' East Coast.

With Russia and China ravaging the West of the US and Cuba flattening a few East Coast cities, the US will collapse under the weight.

Their only saving grace is the fact Europe will inevitably stand in, as will their allies in Asia.

reply to post by Trajan


Wars are not won from defense

Look at what happened to japan AFTER Pearl Harbor

Where exactly would the US be during all this missle launching from China?

Is the new China plane the one that used "Top Gun" footage in the press release? (honestly not sure)

China depends on American markets to keep their economy afloat, the US depends on China buying our debt. It is a symbiotic relationship and we are not going to war any time soon.

reply to post by mkgandhas


I suppose offensive "anti-ship" missiles could be fired from container-ships. Athough it would take quite a few of them to do any more than surprise damage. I was referring to a "Taiwan" type scenario or even as trans-ocean movements of troops. They'd be sitting ducks, defensively naked. A sure fired method of leveling the male-female ratio....

reply to post by Trajan


Maybe you can author a "war games Two", make some serious coin writing fiction. Just joking. All the while, the U.S. is doing nothing? Pearl Harbour "success" was based on secrecy. China couldn't make that kind of move without U.S. foreknowledge. The only major U.S. base in Asia is Okinawa. Any other lesser installations that your scenario suggests-a pre-emptive attack in Asia, immediately brings Japan and any other Nation where those bases are, into a state of war with China, probably Taiwan pitching in as well. Vietnam et al, have no love lost for China either.
Japan's move was based on desperation, China isn't desperate by any means. The U.S. would have to down-size to say Canada's military level, then there'd be a chance it would work. China is NOT an immediate threat....

reply to post by 200Plus


The J-20 is 7-Gen Fighter Jet (Not sure. Could be G-6) with some serious firepower at its disposal. The only drawback is that the Chinese can't build a sufficient propulsion system so they rely on Russia for the hardware.

As I already stated, the reason the US overpowered Japan so quickly was because Japan didn't utilize its full strength in the initial strike. If they had then the US Pacific Fleet would have been wiped out, leaving Japan months to catch up in Naval power. I am not saying Japan would have won the war but it wouldn't have ended as quickly and would have been much more brutal.
Also, Japan had hundreds of thousands of troops fighting the Chinese and trying to hold the land they had captured from Chinese assaults. It wasn't just the US fighting in the Pacific.

I am not saying China won't be hit from retaliatory strikes by what remains of the US fleet but it can take those blows and stay standing however, if China and Russia destroy the major cities along the West Coast and Cuba successfully hits a couple East Coast cities then the US' population is dramatically reduced and its industrial strength just collapses under the strain of having to produce ships to replace ones lost and then to build ones ones to fight an aggressive war.

China has 90 odd ships (Not inc. Merchant Strength) capable of delivering a few hundred missiles into the US' Western Seaboard and although the US has much more they are on maneouvres in the Gulf and power projecting elsewhere.
China could overwhelm them with Iranian and Pakistani help and deal a major blow to the US' maritime strength.

China could use its overwhelming short term firepower to severely destroy the US naval forces and after it has dealt carnage they will fall back to either either aggressively take land in Australia or just pick off US interests in the region.

America's reprisal will be harsh and brutal but China can weather the storm and still have the labor force to rebuild. America however, can barely keep some farmers in Afghanistan in check. How do they expect to destroy another Super power?

reply to post by Trajan


OK so now it China, Russia, Iran, Pakistan, and Cuba attacking the US, Europe, and Australia and "other asian interests".

If thats the case the Europe wouldn't be helping the US, we would be helping each other. Unless in your mind the US lets China destroy our navy and roll on up and wipe out the west coast, while we also let Cuba and Russia destroy everything else. All while they are also busy gobbling up the little countries around the world.

China lost to Imperial Japan
Russia lost in Afghanistan (same as the US will, you can't win a fight against the world's best runners)
Iran lost a 20 year war with Iraq
Pakistan couldn't beat India
Has Cuba ever fought anyone?

yes America has lost conflicts as well. No smart person would claim otherwise, however we have won every conflict we have fought on our own soil. both of those wars were against a superior foe, and today there simply is no superior foe.

American will NEVER fall due to military conflict (non-nuclear), we will simply fade away over time and become smaller self governing countries within the US borders. That will take a long time to happen though and none of us will be around to see it.

We are a superpower and as much as some people hate that fact we will continue to be a superpower for decades to come.

Originally posted by EyesWideShut

Originally posted by Germanicus
We could avoid attack through diplomacy.

Are you S***ting me?

I think the member(Germanicus) is awfully young or naive. Idealism doesn't exist in this world though we wish the world existed with true and high idealism.

reply to post by Trajan


China's only claim to fame is replicating Russian aircraft and now you claim the J-20 as 7th gen? It's not even up to 5 th gen level of the F-22 which is, design-wise, over 20 years old. The idea that Russia would "join" China in this very unlikely attack on the U.S. is also far-fetched. More likely, Russia sits back, does nothing, and end up the "top dog" be sitting out and avoiding the damage. Perhaps repeating it's WW2 move of joining the fray just at the end so it can,again,lay claim to land they don't deserve and haven't earned.( The Korean and Vietnam wars don't even happen if the U.S. had told Russia where to stick it in the first place)

With the technology of today, the Chinese couldn't get 10 ships together, never mind sailing them towards the U.S. without the USN knowing and making counter moves. If you don't think the US would hit that fleet first before it got anywhere near in missle range. Admirals, generals would be court-martialed, the president impeached. They tend not to want that to happen.LOL. It's not going to.....

reply to post by nwtrucker


They don't need to 'sneak' up on the US Navy. They use the 'its a routine' excuse the US is using to deploy 2 Carrier Groups to the Persian Gulf :-/... Joking.

Iran has 'gone invisible' by turning off the tracking systems on its oil tankers and the US was left dumbfounded for weeks. Who is to say China won't simply 'Blackout' their ships? By the time the USN figures out where they are heading it would be too late to do anything except frantically scramble after them and hope the Land Based weapons hold out long enough for the navy to defend them.

Also, China doesn't have to get within sight of the US to be able to do damage. They have missiles capable of travelling 5,000km and the distance between China and the US is only 2600 miles which equates to roughly 4150km which is well within reach.

Sure, the US has missile defenses but they wont get every missile that China launches and wont possibly stop whatever Russia will throw into the fight. Speaking of Russia, they have recently tested a new 'Stealth ICBM' capable of penetrating the US' ABM Shield in Eastern Europe.

As I said before, I am not saying China will come out of it unscathed but they can take a couple million casualties and not feel it but the US will feel anything China throws at them.

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On a side note.

Why wouldn't Russia get involved? It has been demonized by the West and it has few allies that can be of help to them in a war. If China gets involved in a war with the US then Russia will undoubtedly stand in.
If they don't then it will just come back to bite them in the ass when China, Europe and America turn against them and are left in political isolation.
Russia needs to help China in any fight it gets into because they will suffer either way they choose.

Originally posted by Trajan
Who is to say China won't simply 'Blackout' their ships?

Bet someone would notice that. Also imagine the US has a plan in motion for such an event, don't you?

Just as every nation on the Security Council no doubt has "plans" for several "what if" scenarios about the others on it. It's just simple good sense. Sure, it might never be nessicary, probably not, infact, but that doesn't mean there isn't atleast one person monitoring the china fleet. They have several waiting for me to say cloud. That's an exaggeration ofcourse, but really, all of China's fleet vanishes, and America is left dumbfounded? Sorry, the only attacks on america on the one's allowed (9/11, Peril Harbor) ^.~

reply to post by Trajan
I guess we will have to agree to disagree. China is doing well, growing, with increasing prosperity. They have no large beefs with the U.S. The U.S. is shrinking, economically, militarily. All China has to do is sit and wait. It is something they do well.LOL. It makes zero sense to start a war with the U.S. at this point in time.
I will say this again, China's, as well as Russia's, military interests are regional, not global, at least for the time being.China and Russia have far more to fear from each other than they do from the U.S. and they know it!
It almost sounds like you'd like to see this scenario of yours to happen.
This I can assure you of. In any war involving China and the U.S., of any kind, China ceases to exist as a country. It would split into multi-factioned mini-states, not unlike the early 1900's. A centralized gov't would be all but impossible and perhaps even continuous "internal" wars. Similar results could occur in the U.S., the difference being, and it's huge, massive food production and lots of domestic oil/coal/natural gas.

why aRE some people soo eager to spark the flame for ww3 , your either psychotic or stupid last world war 10s of minions died , the next war 100s of millions, perhaps billions will die and will continue to die after the war is over .

Going against Russia and China ?

I dont think so