abioGenesis hypothesis: scientific or just a silly idea? What say you?

Originally posted by MrXYZ

Originally posted by edmc^2

Originally posted by MrXYZ
reply to post by edmc^2

 

They also believed in talking snakes and other demonstrable nonsense like people surviving inside whales or global floods (that of course never happened).

The FACT remains, your presenting us with yet another great example of GOD OF THE GAPS

"talking snakes" - man... where's Jeff Dunham??

As for people surviving inside whales - there are fish is the world that are known to swallow things whole, as to surviving inside for three days, I wouldn't discount it as there are many things that science is still finding to be true about the scriptures.

As for the Great Flood - this will be great topic for a new thread.

It's PHYSICALLY impossible for humans to fit inside a whale...it wouldn't get past it's throat. And even if it somehow did (again, not possible for any known whale species), the pressure and lack of air would kill humans quickly.

In short, the living inside whales thing is IMPOSSIBLE

As for the flood...fine...save it for a new thread. Doesn't change the FACT that it's also DEMONSTRABLY nonsense because there is ZERO objective evidence for one

Thought I might do a quick FYI on this:

Here's what said: "there are fish is the world that are known to swallow things whole".

FISH - as a possible candidate here's one:

Dunkleosteus could open its mouth in one-fiftieth of a second, which would have caused a powerful suction that pulled the prey into its mouth,[6] a food-capture technique used by many fish today.

en.wikipedia.org...


Of course this particular species is already extinct but we're still learning about the Fish Kingdom and there are possibly giant fish still unknown to to science that's capable of such act.

Question is whether if one can survive inside the stomach naturally.

As in the case of Jonah - his survival was a miraculous event.

reply to post by edmc^2


Aside from the fact that this fish already died out over 300m years ago, it's also too small. There have been no fish or whales big enough at any time when humans existed

And even if, it would kill humans to be swallowed...and that's a FACT!

In short: just like in hundreds of other cases, the biblei is factually wrong!

reply to post by ImaFungi


Again, you are speculating without providing any evidence. You might just as well speculate that unicorns are responsible...

Originally posted by MrXYZ
reply to post by ImaFungi

 

Again, you are speculating without providing any evidence. You might just as well speculate that unicorns are responsible...

yup,, just speculating,,,, weve gone over this many times,,,, but it is possible that a god created this universe,,, if you want to think of the creator of this universe as a unicorn go ahead,,,,

but i think this is a legit speculative question,, so if you are not too scared of thinking about it and giving a legit answer, the reason I asked it was out of interest in your answer..,,.


suppose god did create the universe,,, and lets suppose you are you in the world as it is now.....

if god ( somehow) proved himself to you,, whispered in your ear " hey im god, i created the universe" ,, yada yada, proved to you without a doubt,, showed you the workings and history, and how he came to be..,.,.,

with this information,, as you,,, in the world as it is,,, how would that change your outlook on life, on fellow humans.,,. would it change anything about you? do you think it would be important proving this information to others,,, and do you think this information would change others,,, do you think this information should change others? and if so,,, how do you think it would change others?

reply to post by ImaFungi


Of course anything's possible if you don't care about evidence....

Originally posted by MrXYZ
reply to post by ImaFungi

 

Of course anything's possible if you don't care about evidence....

in the thought experiment you are fearfully ignoring,, the evidence is that god proves himself to you,.,.

reply to post by MrXYZ


I truly am hoping you come up with a legit personal answer to my prior question, If not I totally understand why. ( reasons like,, you dont believe there is a god, so you never considered... you dont believe there is a god so considering there is one might send a shock wave through the system of your pre established beliefs,,, )

but if you are too scared to answer that question,, i thought of another cool one i think,.,.

If god did create this universe,.,.,. lets assume a big reason was to allow original forms of life to arise on the billions or trillions of globes surrounding their energy orbs,,, to create a scale of time for this event almost unimaginable,, and on each of these planets to have a real time chaotic and orderly, game of life,...

In your mind what could god have done differently to make it known to the life that evolves on the planets,, that a creator created the universe they inhabit? and how would that change the game of life?

what would god have had to do differently?

and how would that have effected the style and experience of existing as a life form in any time of creation?

( Why i think most people who are atheists are atheists hate the idea of god,, is because it takes aware some of the realness of reality,.,.,. if there noone in control, if its every man for himself,, if there is nothing like a god which knows more then they do,, then they are free from care and concern,, then they are real and nothing is phony or contrived or created about it,,,, its just accident after accident,, free stlye,, improvised,.,.)

so this is what im kind of getting at,,, if it was known throughout the universe directly that a supreme intelligence created this universe for a general or general purposes,, then that would change the whole,, look ma no hands,, no training wheels, im a big boy doing it all by myself, vibe of life,,.,.., either way we are doing it all by ourselves,, with no help and no guiding direction,.,.., but if a supreme intelligence did create the universe for a reason,,, and is kind or good in the least,,, to me thats a lot cooler then,..,, nothing matters, nothing can ever matter,,, nothing is nothing, nothing is everything,, everything is nothing, always ,,, forever,.., if something much earlier on in the history of history took control and established establishment,,, and we are the product of this establishments creation septillion quintillion hyperlight years to the infinite power of time after the establishment was established,,, that would be pretty cool imo,,.,.,

If you were all that existed,,, lets say if you were god and you were all that existed and you could create anything( i am truly asking you) what would you create and why?

Technically, we are made of non-living matter, nothing more, nothing less. It's our intelligence and consciousness that makes us believe that we are living.

Of course, you could then argue that we are living matter, and therefore everuthing in the universe is alive, even raindrops, since everything is essentially made of the same things, particles and energy.




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reply to post by ImaFungi


Look, it's really simple...I need EVIDENCE to believe in something. There is none, so clearly I don't believe in it.

Could some being have created everything, sure...but at the same time, it might just be the product of natural forces without any intelligence or intent. So I don't see the point in speculating.

As for my personal opinion:

We know for a FACT no "intelligent being" was involved in human evolution once life started, and before that we don't know. It's a simple FACT that we don't know how first life started. Having said that, given that human evolution didn't require an intelligence, it makes way more sense for me to say natural forces created it. After all, no one has EVER provided any objective evidence that would prove the existence of such an "intelligence" in the first place.

Of course if some deity came forth and totally proved its existence (objective evidence...not subjective evidence like the bible/koran/etc.) then I would have to believe that...just like scientists would believe in it. But that hasn't happened, so it's lunacy to pretend that being is fact, especially in the 21st century

Originally posted by domasio
Technically, we are made of non-living matter, nothing more, nothing less. It's our intelligence and consciousness that makes us believe that we are living.

Of course, you could then argue that we are living matter, and therefore everuthing in the universe is alive, even raindrops, since everything is essentially made of the same things, particles and energy.

 

Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com

 

We even know how those base molecules everything consists of form

Originally posted by ImaFungi
In your mind what could god have done differently to make it known to the life that evolves on the planets,, that a creator created the universe they inhabit? and how would that change the game of life?

He could simply stick his head in and say "hello" every once in a while. Do you realize how many wars that notion alone would stop. All these religious concepts are fighting today over who's version of god is correct. If he just clarified which one it is, or that they are all different pathways to the same goal, then the wars would stop instantly. This is why I feel that if there is a god, he's a non interfering god and has more on his plate to worry about than this silly spec of dirt that revolves around a ball of energy. I'd say for 99.9999% sure that an interfering god that cares about how people think and judges them after they die is false. If there is a god, he did his work and then left, never to be seen again, so he's either not omnipotent, or he's a jerk. I also feel that the idea of a single all powerful creator is absurd. Creating something like a universe would take a group effort, probably an entire race of creators. Everyone loves magic, but there's no evidence that anything can ever be created from nothing.

Originally posted by Barcs

Originally posted by ImaFungi
In your mind what could god have done differently to make it known to the life that evolves on the planets,, that a creator created the universe they inhabit? and how would that change the game of life?

He could simply stick his head in and say "hello" every once in a while. Do you realize how many wars that notion alone would stop. All these religious concepts are fighting today over who's version of god is correct. If he just clarified which one it is, or that they are all different pathways to the same goal, then the wars would stop instantly. This is why I feel that if there is a god, he's a non interfering god and has more on his plate to worry about than this silly spec of dirt that revolves around a ball of energy. I'd say for 99.9999% sure that an interfering god that cares about how people think and judges them after they die is false. If there is a god, he did his work and then left, never to be seen again, so he's either not omnipotent, or he's a jerk. I also feel that the idea of a single all powerful creator is absurd. Creating something like a universe would take a group effort, probably an entire race of creators. Everyone loves magic, but there's no evidence that anything can ever be created from nothing.

edit on 29-8-2012 by Barcs because: (no reason given)

true true,.,.,. but do you see,, that by him proving himself to everyone,, give everyone no freewill.,,.. it doesnt let us figure it out on our own,, and create our own ordered way,.,.,.,
do you see that with logic and reason humans can end all wars for ever?

reply to post by Barcs


"I also feel that the idea of a single all powerful creator is absurd. Creating something like a universe would take a group effort, probably an entire race of creators. Everyone loves magic, but there's no evidence that anything can ever be created from nothing."

ok yea,,, i agree god can be a race of creators.,.,

true there is no evidence that anything can be created from nothing.,,

but the notions put forth by most scientist is that the entire universe was created from very near nothing..,.

you argument is if there is a god he at one point would have had to naturally arise,., which means why couldnt this universe have naturally arisen,..,,.

so then nature is god,, the selfless creator,, who default creates near infinite realms from near nothing, with no intelligence or plan or purpose.,,. just because nothing cannot exist because there is something,,,, and a lot of it.,


this also has a lot to do with the word "God",.,., and its connotation.,,.

say everything arises naturally,,, humans arise naturally,.,,. and at some point in the future humans can create brand new atoms and elements from an unlimited supply of captured subatomic particles,.,.. from this they eventually create in a vacuum,,, a small scale universe,, which seeks order from simple laws,,,. and can eventually form planets or some plane, for conscious entities to begin to arise on.,,.

objectively we view the entire history of the universe.,,. and view these brand new conscious entities as a naturally arising creation of nature,.,. the universe began,.,.,. time happened,,. no external interference from outside of the universe,,, these conscious entities arise..,,.

but more specifically,, these new conscious entities could not have arisen if it were not for exactly what the humans had done,..,, just as a specific flower could not have bloomed or passed on its offspring if a bee did not pollinate it,,, or you could not exist unless your parents created you,,.,.

those micro conscious entities bound to the universe we created for them,,,, would owe their existence to every event that came before them,.,,., and if they want to view us as intelligent creators,,, or just determined forces of nature,,, they can acknowledge that some "effort" went into creating them and their existence.,,.,..,

similarly if we create A.I. ,.,. do they worship the greater universe for their existence,,,, that in time and space they can experience consciousness and identity ,.., or do they more directly worship and thank us,,, for being a more direct,, and purposeful cause of their existence?

Originally posted by ImaFungi

Originally posted by Barcs

Originally posted by ImaFungi
In your mind what could god have done differently to make it known to the life that evolves on the planets,, that a creator created the universe they inhabit? and how would that change the game of life?

He could simply stick his head in and say "hello" every once in a while. Do you realize how many wars that notion alone would stop. All these religious concepts are fighting today over who's version of god is correct. If he just clarified which one it is, or that they are all different pathways to the same goal, then the wars would stop instantly. This is why I feel that if there is a god, he's a non interfering god and has more on his plate to worry about than this silly spec of dirt that revolves around a ball of energy. I'd say for 99.9999% sure that an interfering god that cares about how people think and judges them after they die is false. If there is a god, he did his work and then left, never to be seen again, so he's either not omnipotent, or he's a jerk. I also feel that the idea of a single all powerful creator is absurd. Creating something like a universe would take a group effort, probably an entire race of creators. Everyone loves magic, but there's no evidence that anything can ever be created from nothing.

edit on 29-8-2012 by Barcs because: (no reason given)

true true,.,.,. but do you see,, that by him proving himself to everyone,, give everyone no freewill.,,.. it doesnt let us figure it out on our own,, and create our own ordered way,.,.,.,
do you see that with logic and reason humans can end all wars for ever?

Originally posted by MrXYZ

Originally posted by ImaFungi

Originally posted by Barcs

Originally posted by ImaFungi
In your mind what could god have done differently to make it known to the life that evolves on the planets,, that a creator created the universe they inhabit? and how would that change the game of life?

He could simply stick his head in and say "hello" every once in a while. Do you realize how many wars that notion alone would stop. All these religious concepts are fighting today over who's version of god is correct. If he just clarified which one it is, or that they are all different pathways to the same goal, then the wars would stop instantly. This is why I feel that if there is a god, he's a non interfering god and has more on his plate to worry about than this silly spec of dirt that revolves around a ball of energy. I'd say for 99.9999% sure that an interfering god that cares about how people think and judges them after they die is false. If there is a god, he did his work and then left, never to be seen again, so he's either not omnipotent, or he's a jerk. I also feel that the idea of a single all powerful creator is absurd. Creating something like a universe would take a group effort, probably an entire race of creators. Everyone loves magic, but there's no evidence that anything can ever be created from nothing.

edit on 29-8-2012 by Barcs because: (no reason given)

true true,.,.,. but do you see,, that by him proving himself to everyone,, give everyone no freewill.,,.. it doesnt let us figure it out on our own,, and create our own ordered way,.,.,.,
do you see that with logic and reason humans can end all wars for ever?

when i talk about god,,, i do not reference the bible,.,.,. but If that did occur,,, which you already know floods are caused by an invisible blind magician,, not an intelligent one,..,., i can understand why,.,.,..,

if you are working on a masterpiece painting,,, and you mess up in an area,, say the paint dries,,, I would wipe that area clean to start again,, maybe even use water to wash it away.,,,

Originally posted by domasio
Technically, we are made of non-living matter, nothing more, nothing less. It's our intelligence and consciousness that makes us believe that we are living.

Of course, you could then argue that we are living matter, and therefore everuthing in the universe is alive, even raindrops, since everything is essentially made of the same things, particles and energy.

 

Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com

 

TECHNICALLY you're correct.

In fact chemical study of man’s body reveals that all its elements can be found in the soil around us.

Study shows that there are about 41 chemical elements that makes up the human body. Foremost of these are:

1.Oxygen (65%)
2.Carbon (18%)
3.Hydrogen (10%)
4.Nitrogen (3%)
5.Calcium (1.5%)
6.Phosphorus (1.0%)
7.Potassium (0.35%)
8.Sulfur (0.25%)
9.Sodium (0.15%)
10.Magnesium (0.05%)
11.Copper, Zinc, Selenium, Molybdenum, Fluorine, Chlorine, Iodine, Manganese, Cobalt, Iron (0.70%)
12.Lithium, Strontium, Aluminum, Silicon, Lead, Vanadium, Arsenic, Bromine (trace amounts)

chemistry.about.com...

Interestingly this finding is in total harmony with the Scripture when it said that man was made “out of dust from the ground.” (Gen. 2:7)

Thus the expression "we are dust".

But we're more than dust because we're endowed with attributes that separate us from the elements of the ground or for that matter the universe. We're more than that for we're are conscious and aware of our existence.

Question is - where did consciousness came from?

Is it just a product of chemical reactions created by the brain?

Or is there more to it?

What say you?

reply to post by edmc^2

Interestingly this finding is in total harmony with the Scripture when it said that man was made “out of dust from the ground.” (Gen. 2:7)

Wrong! The base molecules we and everything consist of don't come "from the ground"...they are forged inside stars

Originally posted by MrXYZ
reply to post by edmc^2

 

Interestingly this finding is in total harmony with the Scripture when it said that man was made “out of dust from the ground.” (Gen. 2:7)

hehehehe...

In addition here's what the link I included say:

Question: What Are the Elements in the Human Body?

Answer:

Most of the human body is made up of water, H2O, with cells consisting of 65-90% water by weight. Therefore, it isn't surprising that most of a human body's mass is oxygen. Carbon, the basic unit for organic molecules, comes in second. 99% of the mass of the human body is made up of just six elements: oxygen, carbon, hydrogen, nitrogen, calcium, and

Wrong! The base molecules we and everything consist of don't come "from the ground"...they are forged inside stars

Sure many of the elements are also found in the stars, no one is disputing that - but by you saying "WRONG" to the elements found in the ground that are present in human body is a sign of TOTAL IGNORANCE if not total close minded.

So here's your second CHANCE to redeem yourself.

Are the elements listed by scientists below ESPECIALLY H2O not present in both the soil of the ground (earth) and the human body?

Are you saying they are WRONG?

Here they are again:

"Most of the human body is made up of water, H2O"

1.Oxygen (65%)
2.Carbon (18%)
3.Hydrogen (10%)
4.Nitrogen (3%)
5.Calcium (1.5%)
6.Phosphorus (1.0%)
7.Potassium (0.35%)
8.Sulfur (0.25%)
9.Sodium (0.15%)
10.Magnesium (0.05%)
11.Copper, Zinc, Selenium, Molybdenum, Fluorine, Chlorine, Iodine, Manganese, Cobalt, Iron (0.70%)
12.Lithium, Strontium, Aluminum, Silicon, Lead, Vanadium, Arsenic, Bromine (trace amounts)

Where do you think is the MOST OBVIOUS place where these elements are most abundant - ESPECIALLY Water?

In the stars or in the planet earth?

If on earth how am I wrong?

reply to post by edmc^2

Where do you think is the MOST OBVIOUS place where these elements are most abundant - ESPECIALLY Water?

In the stars or in the planet earth?

If on earth how am I wrong?

You might wanna do some real research for once. The universe is abundant with water for example. There's more water in the universe than on earth...waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay more.

And again, you implying that because humans share molecules with the soil the bible is somehow validated is THE ARGUMENT FROM IGNORANCE

Read the list of argumentative fallacies because you STILL don't understand why your arguments are beyond laughable

Originally posted by MrXYZ
reply to post by edmc^2

 

Where do you think is the MOST OBVIOUS place where these elements are most abundant - ESPECIALLY Water?

In the stars or in the planet earth?

If on earth how am I wrong?

You might wanna do some real research for once. The universe is abundant with water for example. There's more water in the universe than on earth...waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay more.

And again, you implying that because humans share molecules with the soil the bible is somehow validated is THE ARGUMENT FROM IGNORANCE

Read the list of argumentative fallacies because you STILL don't understand why your arguments are beyond laughable

hehehehe...

typical response.

Let's try it again - are these elements abundant on earth?

Simple question.

edit:

By you saying:

The universe is abundant with water for example. There's more water in the universe than on earth...waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay more.

Is it possible then that at one point in time the planet earth was surrounded with water?


simple question.