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abioGenesis hypothesis: scientific or just a silly idea? What say you?

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posted on Aug, 21 2012 @ 11:15 AM
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Originally posted by MrXYZ

Originally posted by ImaFungi

Originally posted by MrXYZ
reply to post by ImaFungi
 


As long as you don't pretend your BELIEF is fact or somehow proven that's not a problem...


As long as you don't pretend your BELIEF ( there is no god) is fact or somehow proven that's not a problem...
edit on 21-8-2012 by ImaFungi because: (no reason given)


Of course I can't know for sure...just like I can't know whether there are really no unicorns


how much would you bet there are no unicorns in the universe? there are animals with horns on earth,,, there could have even been a horse like animal with a horn in the past....

your wrong for equating a mythical item like fairies, santa, zeus,, with the potential of a god that created the universe, you can comprehend why right?

if you cant,, its because all those things you can think of and say are creations from mans mind,, which came much after the beginning of the universe , which may have been began by god..........

whatever man thinks ,,,, has nothing to do with the simple concept,,, of a creator potentially creating the universe..,.,. call it what you like,, spehgetti monster,, you are just basking in ignorance because your scared to consider an aspect of truth....
tell me how im a luddite and scared to consider there is no god........ no... and no....




posted on Aug, 21 2012 @ 12:15 PM
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reply to post by ImaFungi
 


Unicorns, Zeus, the Christian God, Allah...all the same, none have any objective evidence proving their existence....and that's a FACT.



posted on Aug, 21 2012 @ 12:27 PM
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Originally posted by ImaFungi

Originally posted by MrXYZ

Originally posted by ImaFungi

Originally posted by MrXYZ
reply to post by ImaFungi
 


As long as you don't pretend your BELIEF is fact or somehow proven that's not a problem...


As long as you don't pretend your BELIEF ( there is no god) is fact or somehow proven that's not a problem...
edit on 21-8-2012 by ImaFungi because: (no reason given)


Of course I can't know for sure...just like I can't know whether there are really no unicorns


how much would you bet there are no unicorns in the universe? there are animals with horns on earth,,, there could have even been a horse like animal with a horn in the past....

your wrong for equating a mythical item like fairies, santa, zeus,, with the potential of a god that created the universe, you can comprehend why right?

if you cant,, its because all those things you can think of and say are creations from mans mind,, which came much after the beginning of the universe , which may have been began by god..........

whatever man thinks ,,,, has nothing to do with the simple concept,,, of a creator potentially creating the universe..,.,. call it what you like,, spehgetti monster,, you are just basking in ignorance because your scared to consider an aspect of truth....
tell me how im a luddite and scared to consider there is no god........ no... and no....


I applaud your tenacity ImaFungi. It appears that you have MrXYZ on the run with your logic.

Unfortunately the man ain't gettin it. A pure materialistic outlook of life, nature or for that matter the Universe is very very limited as it shackles one to a very narrow point of view. As such I don't see any advancement from the man as long as he insist on the "to see is to believe" frame of mind.

Anyway, thanks for your enlightening posts.



posted on Aug, 21 2012 @ 12:45 PM
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reply to post by edmc^2
 





I applaud your tenacity ImaFungi. It appears that you have MrXYZ on the run with your logic.


I think you might wanna look up the definition of "logic", because I don't think you know what it means given that all your arguments are argumentative fallacies


I'm also not sure what you mean by "on the run" because last I checked I'm still posting





Unfortunately the man ain't gettin it. A pure materialistic outlook of life, nature or for that matter the Universe is very very limited as it shackles one to a very narrow point of view. As such I don't see any advancement from the man as long as he insist on the "to see is to believe" frame of mind.


What on earth does materialism have to do with anything??

It comes down to this: You don't give a rat's ass about objective evidence and are content with argumentative fallacies "supporting" your BELIEF. That's fine, but you look a bit silly trying to pretend your BELIEF is somehow fact in the absence of objective evidence





Anyway, thanks for your enlightening posts.


Just because he uses the same argumentative fallacies as you (god of the gaps, argument from complexity, argument from ignorance) doesn't automatically validate your claims


At least he says "god is a POSSIBILITY" without pretending it's a fact like you are.

edit on 21-8-2012 by MrXYZ because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 21 2012 @ 01:44 PM
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Originally posted by MrXYZ
reply to post by ImaFungi
 


Unicorns, Zeus, the Christian God, Allah...all the same, none have any objective evidence proving their existence....and that's a FACT.


your denser then the pre big bang state of energy...

If there was a god that created the universe,, would you expect that mans religion has described and named it correctly? of course not you already know that mans religions are silly and false,,,, however the potential for a god which caused the creation of the universe does not disappear when you falsify zeus and santa... you can falsify infinite number of man made words, concepts, myths, and religions,, it would not do a thing to put a dent in the potential of a god creating this universe,,



posted on Aug, 21 2012 @ 01:48 PM
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Originally posted by ImaFungi

Originally posted by MrXYZ
reply to post by ImaFungi
 


Unicorns, Zeus, the Christian God, Allah...all the same, none have any objective evidence proving their existence....and that's a FACT.


your denser then the pre big bang state of energy...

If there was a god that created the universe,, would you expect that mans religion has described and named it correctly? of course not you already know that mans religions are silly and false,,,, however the potential for a god which caused the creation of the universe does not disappear when you falsify zeus and santa... you can falsify infinite number of man made words, concepts, myths, and religions,, it would not do a thing to put a dent in the potential of a god creating this universe,,


Again, I have no problem with you believing there's the "potential a creator did it all". I only have an issue with people who claim it's a fact...because there's ZERO objective evidence supporting that.

I'll ignore your ad hominem attack



posted on Aug, 21 2012 @ 01:51 PM
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Originally posted by MrXYZ

Originally posted by ImaFungi

Originally posted by MrXYZ
reply to post by ImaFungi
 


Unicorns, Zeus, the Christian God, Allah...all the same, none have any objective evidence proving their existence....and that's a FACT.


your denser then the pre big bang state of energy...

If there was a god that created the universe,, would you expect that mans religion has described and named it correctly? of course not you already know that mans religions are silly and false,,,, however the potential for a god which caused the creation of the universe does not disappear when you falsify zeus and santa... you can falsify infinite number of man made words, concepts, myths, and religions,, it would not do a thing to put a dent in the potential of a god creating this universe,,


Again, I have no problem with you believing there's the "potential a creator did it all". I only have an issue with people who claim it's a fact...because there's ZERO objective evidence supporting that.

I'll ignore your ad hominem attack


ok thanks,,, i figured you may get a kick out of it,,, all spice and emotion is in jest,,, I mean no harm and would hope i could cause none electronically with my words...


What would you do if when you died, you were husked away to meet god? would you at least look back on these threads, and give us a bow for "telling you so"? If your belief is correct ill give you just as much props! it is a tough guess..
edit on 21-8-2012 by ImaFungi because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 21 2012 @ 01:56 PM
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reply to post by ImaFungi
 


So now the argument is "what if you're wrong?"




In the end, unless there's objective evidence it doesn't matter. Hell, if I'm wrong and I met god(s) after dying, the first thing I'd ask is "if you really wanted us to know about you, why on earth did you hide ALL objective evidence?"



edit on 21-8-2012 by MrXYZ because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 21 2012 @ 02:09 PM
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reply to post by MrXYZ
 


"In the end, unless there's objective evidence it doesn't matter. Hell, if I'm wrong and I met god(s) after dying, the first thing I'd ask is "if you really wanted us to know about you, why on earth did you hide ALL objective evidence?"

because if everyone knew god existed right now,, wed be in "heaven".... there would be no free will,,,

It would be like playing hide and seek without the hiding.,.,.

If god wanted to hold our hands, and move us himself like puppets, im sure thats the way things would be,,,


ive got another proposition for ya..... my only problem with religion is that theres not just one ( my point being, if a god created the universe,,, all humans exist because of this one source god,, = one religion ),..,

what if everyone in the world dropped their religion and united under science? would that make you happy? would many problems go away? would people work with each other to solve existing problems? would we attempt to make the world more fair and prosperous? if everyone was on the same team, of seeking information and increasing intelligence,,, everyone would know they are related from being spawn from the same source,, let us pray to the supreme creator, biggest bangest,,,,,, I personally think a blend of science and philosophy is the true religion and the true praise of "the-if-there-is-one-god"///



posted on Aug, 21 2012 @ 02:26 PM
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reply to post by ImaFungi
 


Of course a lot of problems would get solved if people cared more about rationality and logic instead of their personal religious beliefs. For starters, people wouldn't blow themselves up or initiate wars like we're seeing the middle east. But you know what, I believe people have the RIGHT to believe whatever they want no matter how irrational or factually wrong those beliefs are.

I only have an issue if someone throws logic overboard claiming his BELIEF is a fact...and then acts in a way that influences others against their will.

So if you claim blowing yourself up to kill others is ok because that's what god wants (plus...virgins...don't forget the virgins!), then you are WRONG and people have the right to point that out. You are wrong because your actions and opinion that affects others isn't based on rationality and logic.

If you are against gay marriage because of your religion, you are WRONG too because just like in the other example you don't have any rational arguments.

There's stuff we know (the earth is round), and stuff we don't know (how the universe started out). There is no mythical third category where you get to make stuff up!! FACT is we don't know how the universe started. So you might BELIEVE some creator is responsible, but given the lack of objective evidence you are simply speculating and don't know...just like the rest of us.

As for your "free will" comment: Free will doesn't equal blind belief.



posted on Aug, 21 2012 @ 02:38 PM
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reply to post by MrXYZ
 


"As for your "free will" comment: Free will doesn't equal blind belief."

of course,,, i meant it in the way that if god existed and we were aware of him,,,. maybe we would have second thoughts when we were tempted to kill our friend out of jealousy,,.., instead of using our freewill and lack of divine punishment,to kill our friend,, potentially satisfying our base animal instincts,,.,.

If we were aware of gods existence we would have no free will in the sense that,,, we would know what was right and wrong and behave responsibly,, and do what god expected of us..,,.,. the way things are,,, we are all free and individual humans who can express ourselves in any way at any time,,,, from learning on our own we have created law and order and justice,, and understand the benefit of being domesticated and humane,, we choose ourselves to see that potential of our nature, to cooperate and be good, to experience a grander life then our chimp ancestors could imagine to throw poop at......


as for the religion and wars stuff,,, wow yea,, i do realize how much religion affects people and the chasms it creates,,, not to mention some of the middle eastern nations it is as if we are looking in a time machine to the past,, in regards to fundamentalism and oppression of women etc..... but id go one step further and say all war is bad,, and war is partaken in for reasons beyond religion,,, anything that separates humans in terms of barriers of mind, prejudice, or culture, or religion is bad,,,, this is what religion is suppose to be about,,, uniting a large amount of members of a tribe, community, or region into a larger family under there relation to each other as existing in the universe, birthed from the same source, dependent on the same food and water,, now that all these religions are cautiously and fearfully meeting each other,, as preistclasses frantic and fearful of their sheeple and minions waking up to the larger truth, of what i was saying,,, there is only one true religion ... then either people will shed the culturally fabricated religions of the past,, and embrace a clearer view of the reality all humans share...
edit on 21-8-2012 by ImaFungi because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 21 2012 @ 03:50 PM
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Originally posted by ImaFungi
If there was a god that created the universe,, would you expect that mans religion has described and named it correctly? of course not you already know that mans religions are silly and false,,,, however the potential for a god which caused the creation of the universe does not disappear when you falsify zeus and santa... you can falsify infinite number of man made words, concepts, myths, and religions,, it would not do a thing to put a dent in the potential of a god creating this universe,,


All he's saying is that there is no objective evidence to suggest the universe or anything else in nature has a creator. He's not saying there is definitely 100% no god. If you want to believe there is, that's fine, but just understand there isn't evidence for it, just like the aforementioned mythical creatures and gods. That's all. I wish that we had all the answers, but alas we are still a very young race. We've been using science for what, a thousand years tops (with just 200 years of hardcore study)? There's a lot we still have to discover. Imagine a race that's been using science for millions of years? I can't comprehend how vast their knowledge would be. We're still growing. Give us time.
edit on 21-8-2012 by Barcs because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 22 2012 @ 02:06 AM
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The man said:




He's not saying there is definitely 100% no god. If you want to believe there is, that's fine, but just understand there isn't evidence for it..."


made me laugh

edit on 22-8-2012 by edmc^2 because: size



posted on Aug, 22 2012 @ 02:14 AM
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Originally posted by edmc^2
The man said:




He's not saying there is definitely 100% no god. If you want to believe there is, that's fine, but just understand there isn't evidence for it..."


made me laugh

edit on 22-8-2012 by edmc^2 because: size


Not sure why you're laughing because he's merely stating a FACT...there is no objective evidence proving your claims



posted on Aug, 22 2012 @ 10:45 AM
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Originally posted by MrXYZ

Originally posted by edmc^2
The man said:




He's not saying there is definitely 100% no god. If you want to believe there is, that's fine, but just understand there isn't evidence for it..."


made me laugh

edit on 22-8-2012 by edmc^2 because: size


Not sure why you're laughing because he's merely stating a FACT...there is no objective evidence proving your claims


Ha. Yeah, this guy thinks that absence of evidence = evidence of absence, so you kind of expect him claim they are the same thing. Afterall, he's the one that said since abiogenesis hasn't been proven yet, that it's automatically false. Ah, the logic of creationists. It never ceases to amuse me.



posted on Aug, 22 2012 @ 02:04 PM
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"Ha. Yeah, this guy thinks that absence of evidence = evidence of absence,"



this is funny because this is your personal argument ( or mr. xyz ) for why there is no god... absence of evidence,,, if noone can show mr. xyz objective evidence proving god, then that means theres no god....or that means there is evidence of gods absence ( absence as in lack of ever existing)
edit on 22-8-2012 by ImaFungi because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 22 2012 @ 02:07 PM
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Originally posted by ImaFungi


"Ha. Yeah, this guy thinks that absence of evidence = evidence of absence,"



this is funny because this is your personal argument ( or mr. xyz ) for why there is no god... absence of evidence,,, if noone can show mr. xyz objective evidence proving god, then that means theres no god....or that means there is evidence of gods absence ( in this case,, gods existence)


I never said there is no god...I said there is ZERO evidence for one, big difference. I think the same way about unicorns, elves and space monsters. Do I have proof they don't exist...no! But at the same time I admit that there's no proof and don't waste my time believing in something that isn't backed up by evidence.



posted on Aug, 22 2012 @ 02:26 PM
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Originally posted by MrXYZ

Originally posted by ImaFungi


"Ha. Yeah, this guy thinks that absence of evidence = evidence of absence,"



this is funny because this is your personal argument ( or mr. xyz ) for why there is no god... absence of evidence,,, if noone can show mr. xyz objective evidence proving god, then that means theres no god....or that means there is evidence of gods absence ( in this case,, gods existence)


I never said there is no god...I said there is ZERO evidence for one, big difference. I think the same way about unicorns, elves and space monsters. Do I have proof they don't exist...no! But at the same time I admit that there's no proof and don't waste my time believing in something that isn't backed up by evidence.


I got ya,,,believing there is a chance in god existing is different then believing god does exist,.,.,.

it is an odd thing,..,., like the belief can do something for you.... the one thing it may help do is stop questioning whether or not there is a god ( but you can do this by accepting you dont and cant know for sure) but you can also allow your self to believe a god probably does exist, and then you just have that belief of thought in your head and thats about all it does for you....



posted on Aug, 22 2012 @ 02:31 PM
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Originally posted by ImaFungi

Originally posted by MrXYZ

Originally posted by ImaFungi


"Ha. Yeah, this guy thinks that absence of evidence = evidence of absence,"



this is funny because this is your personal argument ( or mr. xyz ) for why there is no god... absence of evidence,,, if noone can show mr. xyz objective evidence proving god, then that means theres no god....or that means there is evidence of gods absence ( in this case,, gods existence)


I never said there is no god...I said there is ZERO evidence for one, big difference. I think the same way about unicorns, elves and space monsters. Do I have proof they don't exist...no! But at the same time I admit that there's no proof and don't waste my time believing in something that isn't backed up by evidence.


I got ya,,,believing there is a chance in god existing is different then believing god does exist,.,.,.

it is an odd thing,..,., like the belief can do something for you.... the one thing it may help do is stop questioning whether or not there is a god ( but you can do this by accepting you dont and cant know for sure) but you can also allow your self to believe a god probably does exist, and then you just have that belief of thought in your head and thats about all it does for you....



I just don't feel the need to believe in something if it isn't backed up by objective evidence...I'd feel like deluding myself.



posted on Aug, 22 2012 @ 03:00 PM
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Originally posted by MrXYZ

Originally posted by ImaFungi

Originally posted by MrXYZ

Originally posted by ImaFungi


"Ha. Yeah, this guy thinks that absence of evidence = evidence of absence,"



this is funny because this is your personal argument ( or mr. xyz ) for why there is no god... absence of evidence,,, if noone can show mr. xyz objective evidence proving god, then that means theres no god....or that means there is evidence of gods absence ( in this case,, gods existence)


I never said there is no god...I said there is ZERO evidence for one, big difference. I think the same way about unicorns, elves and space monsters. Do I have proof they don't exist...no! But at the same time I admit that there's no proof and don't waste my time believing in something that isn't backed up by evidence.


I got ya,,,believing there is a chance in god existing is different then believing god does exist,.,.,.

it is an odd thing,..,., like the belief can do something for you.... the one thing it may help do is stop questioning whether or not there is a god ( but you can do this by accepting you dont and cant know for sure) but you can also allow your self to believe a god probably does exist, and then you just have that belief of thought in your head and thats about all it does for you....



I just don't feel the need to believe in something if it isn't backed up by objective evidence...I'd feel like deluding myself.


true..

what if you have confidence and you feel proud, happy, and special,,., but really objectively there not only is no such thing as those things,, but if there were scientifically it could be proven you are not special and should not be happy.... is that something you would like to live with,, or is it ok to internally delude your self sometimes?


if i can be honest i pretty much daily think about the different sides ( because I cannot know for sure I think of them all at times) whether or not a god exists,, what it may be like, etc.... and to think a god exists does give me hope,,, it does make me feel better,,, like there are greater points and purposes to what can be done in and with reality,,, like there are goals and projects and experiments,, that have greater and cooler fathomable meanings,, and it seems totally likely to me that god could be an advanced intelligence from eternal infinities ago,, that created this universe for a reason,.,...,

its actually harder for me to wrap my head around no intelligence required in designing the universe,,,, and it basically comes down to.,,. to what or who does the space and energy belong to? we are of it and assuming everything else that exists in the universe is of it as well,,, and makes the up ( aliens on other planets) we are closely related to them and all things,, every atom of the universe because what we are was all there in the beginning,, is it a free for all,, every atom for itself,, every thing up for grabs,,, cosmic casino,,,,, you want to think you are free and that your energy belongs to you,,, you are your own,, what you are belongs to you,.., but you are an after thought,, what you are was given to you,, and the universe will see it no other way then to get it back,.,.,. so i have a really hard time comprehending what the universe actually might be,,,. if there are no worries,, nothing matters or means anything,, it is just an eternal preschool of playing with legos,,,, or if the babies grew up and discovered excellent things to show and tell,, and share....



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