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Originally posted by john_bmth
reply to post by edmc^2
"I don't know" to both questions. Now, here's the important bit. Pay attention closely as it seems to have slipped under your radar many times in this thread already: science not knowing does not in any way lend credibility or magic in evidence for your "God of the Gaps" fallacy. Do you understand this elementary concept?
Originally posted by CoherentlyConfused
reply to post by edmc^2
Are you demanding that science have all the absolute answers, today, right now? Because no matter how many times you ask the question, "I don't know," "you don't know" and "nobody knows" is going to be your answer. Until either abiogenesis is found to work or completely be a failure, or someone proves beyond any doubt that an intelligent creator exists or does not exist, saying you don't know isn't just okay and expected, it's the only appropriate answer.
We don't know life created life and that's why scientists try what they try...because we don't know how life started and that's what scientists do. It's in their nature, you know. Some people are just like that by nature--they like real solid answers. They look for those answers without making baseless assumptions. You can make assumptions all you want but you don't know and you really have nothing productive to add to this discussion, other than information showing why you don't believe abiogenesis is possible, which is fantastic. Showing your hypothesis as to why you believe abiogenesis isn't possible is fine; however it doesn't prove it impossible and it certainly doesn't prove the existence of a creator.
Unless your point of this thread isn't to disprove or prove something but to just toss around beliefs and ideas while trying to be all smarter than everyone, then fine because that's all you're doing.
Are you demanding that science have all the absolute answers, today, right now?
Originally posted by edmc^2
Originally posted by john_bmth
reply to post by edmc^2
"I don't know" to both questions. Now, here's the important bit. Pay attention closely as it seems to have slipped under your radar many times in this thread already: science not knowing does not in any way lend credibility or magic in evidence for your "God of the Gaps" fallacy. Do you understand this elementary concept?
hahahaha...
Look I even went along as to pretend that God - the Creator doesn't exist - that ONLY SCIENCE exist - nothing more nothing less - ONLY SCIENCE EXIST - NO God.
Yet you can't even see what SCIENCE has done - it has proven that Life can ONLY arise from pre-existing life.
Science can't bring back the dead!
NO ONE can animate an inanimate thing.
YET "I Don't Know" - is your answer.
Am I talking to a non-thinking person here?
IDK.
Originally posted by edmc^2
All I'm looking for is logic and common sense?
And it's becoming very obvious - you (abio people) don't have it.
Imagine that - a very simple, very basic question:
If life can arise from life - I don't know is the answer - did they teach you that in science class?
Can life arise from inanimate things> I don't know is the answer - is that what you've learned in your science class.
Common sense man - where's your common sense?
Originally posted by john_bmth
Originally posted by edmc^2
Originally posted by john_bmth
reply to post by edmc^2
"I don't know" to both questions. Now, here's the important bit. Pay attention closely as it seems to have slipped under your radar many times in this thread already: science not knowing does not in any way lend credibility or magic in evidence for your "God of the Gaps" fallacy. Do you understand this elementary concept?
hahahaha...
Look I even went along as to pretend that God - the Creator doesn't exist - that ONLY SCIENCE exist - nothing more nothing less - ONLY SCIENCE EXIST - NO God.
Ask your questions 100 years ago about phenomenon we couldn't explain then but can now. See how ludicrous your God of the Gaps fallacy is? No, you probably don't.
Yet you can't even see what SCIENCE has done - it has proven that Life can ONLY arise from pre-existing life.
Nope, you're just making things up again. "We don't know" is not "proof" that "life can ONLY arise from pre-existing life". You still are not grasping this very basic concept, are you?
Science can't bring back the dead!
NO ONE can animate an inanimate thing.
YET "I Don't Know" - is your answer.
Erm... what? You're rambling again. Please reform this into a coherent argument.
Am I talking to a non-thinking person here?
Nope, that's just your internal monologue.
IDK.
Uh huh, yet you do claim to know based on absolutely zero evidence. 17 pages on and you have no evidence what so ever. You're just repeating the same circular argument and commiting the same fallacies over and over and over and over...
Nope - not one - even 100 or 1000 years from now because it is a scientific fact that life can only arise from life. That I'm 100% sure of.
Originally posted by CoherentlyConfused
reply to post by edmc^2
Nope - not one - even 100 or 1000 years from now because it is a scientific fact that life can only arise from life. That I'm 100% sure of.
Ahh, I got you now. You can't be more clear than that.
Have fun with your thread.
Originally posted by Cogito, Ergo Sum
reply to post by edmc^2
Has life been observed arising from non life? - no.
Has god been observed? - no.
Have magical spaghetti monsters been observed? - no.
Have omniscient pink unicorns been observed? - no.
Have omnipresent leprechauns been observed? - no.
Have omnipotent fairies been observed? - no.
Ergo...god did it. WTF ?
Unlike all of the other non observations of imaginary beings, the first one is a process, one that we know did happen. We don't understand this natural process, as of yet. Your assertion of proof that it can't happen is a negative one and a logical fallacy.
This in itself doesn't lend validity in any way to fairies or magical sky leprechauns, because to attribute any process to them, you would first need to establish that they exist.
Has the negative psychological effects of religious cult indoctrination been observed? - yes. It has been observed and documented.
Has the negative psychological effects of religious cult indoctrination been observed?
Originally posted by edmc^2
has anyone proven abiogenesis hypothesis - that you can create, produce, animate life from non-living matter?
Nope - not one - even 100 or 1000 years from now because it is a scientific fact that life can only arise from life.
That I'm 100% sure of.
Originally posted by edmc^2
Which is so clear to me now - believers of abiogenesis - lack logic and common sense - has been observed and documented.
edit on 21-6-2012 by edmc^2 because: nope
Originally posted by edmc^2
reply to post by Noncompatible
Eh???
So I'm a- is that all you got Noncompatible? ad hominem attacks?
"anti-science"... "a scientific luddite"
Well if I'm one then you should be able to answer my scientifically constructed questions:
That is, do you think the universe with all it's amazing fine tuned properties (as listed below) just came to be by mere chance/accident?
1) The charges of electron and proton must be equal and opposite
2) the neutron must outweigh the proton by a tiny percent
3) a matching must exist between temperature of the sun and the absorptive properties of chlorophyll before photosynthesis can occur
4) if the strong force were a little weaker, the sun could not generate energy by nuclear reactions, but if it were a little stronger, the fuel needed to generate energy would be violently unstable
5) without two separate remarkable resonances between nuclei in the cores of red giant stars, no element beyond helium could have been formed
6) had space been less than three dimensions, the interconnections for blood flow and the nervous system would be impossible
7) and if space had been more than three dimensions, planets could not orbit the sun stably.
If so please explain how scientifically is that possible?
And do you know the answers to the questions below?
1) Exactly how does the body communicate its need to the cell, and how does it trigger part of the DNA molecule to “unzip” at just the right place and later to go back together?
2) What prevents the rest of the DNA helix from “unzipping”?
3) How did not only the right chemicals, but also all the right mechanisms, such as the ribosomes, come to be in the cell for the making of a new strand of RNA?
4) How does the ribosome “read” the RNA and exactly how are just the right chemicals provided at the right places to reproduce the DNA’s pattern and to make the proper protein?
5) How is the information encoded on DNA transferred to cell enzymes that then control the growth of new cells?
And finally, we encounter the biggest question of all:
6) How did such complex substances, and life itself, get there in the first place?
If you think abioGenesis is capable of producing the amazing cell, the DNA structure surely you won't any problem answering my SCIENTIFIC questions above.
Time to put up or....
Originally posted by Noncompatible
Originally posted by edmc^2
reply to post by Noncompatible
Eh???
So I'm a- is that all you got Noncompatible? ad hominem attacks?
"anti-science"... "a scientific luddite"
Well if I'm one then you should be able to answer my scientifically constructed questions:
That is, do you think the universe with all it's amazing fine tuned properties (as listed below) just came to be by mere chance/accident?
1) The charges of electron and proton must be equal and opposite
2) the neutron must outweigh the proton by a tiny percent
3) a matching must exist between temperature of the sun and the absorptive properties of chlorophyll before photosynthesis can occur
4) if the strong force were a little weaker, the sun could not generate energy by nuclear reactions, but if it were a little stronger, the fuel needed to generate energy would be violently unstable
5) without two separate remarkable resonances between nuclei in the cores of red giant stars, no element beyond helium could have been formed
6) had space been less than three dimensions, the interconnections for blood flow and the nervous system would be impossible
7) and if space had been more than three dimensions, planets could not orbit the sun stably.
If so please explain how scientifically is that possible?
And do you know the answers to the questions below?
1) Exactly how does the body communicate its need to the cell, and how does it trigger part of the DNA molecule to “unzip” at just the right place and later to go back together?
2) What prevents the rest of the DNA helix from “unzipping”?
3) How did not only the right chemicals, but also all the right mechanisms, such as the ribosomes, come to be in the cell for the making of a new strand of RNA?
4) How does the ribosome “read” the RNA and exactly how are just the right chemicals provided at the right places to reproduce the DNA’s pattern and to make the proper protein?
5) How is the information encoded on DNA transferred to cell enzymes that then control the growth of new cells?
And finally, we encounter the biggest question of all:
6) How did such complex substances, and life itself, get there in the first place?
If you think abioGenesis is capable of producing the amazing cell, the DNA structure surely you won't any problem answering my SCIENTIFIC questions above.
Time to put up or....
An observation of a behavior is not an attack, it is an observation.
Evading the issue, is not an answer.
"I don't know, but am hoping we find out" is a valid response.
"I don't know. Therefore god." is a nonsensical answer.
I had written you off, but felt I should at least respond.
Enjoy yourself and please at least try to embrace new knowledge, if only a little.
Remember if you truly believe...then all we will find is the evidence of your gods handiwork.
And stop trying to shoot the messengers, after all if by some chance you are correct, god made us this way. Who are you to argue ?
Originally posted by edmc^2
OK good luck with your search but just to let you know the answers are staring you in the eyes - you're just refusing to see them.
In the meantime proponents of Creation are way ahead of you as we've already passed the how and what but are in the why. And the answers are wonderful and just truly amazing.
You on the other hand is stuck in first gear - just like the flat-earther's denying the fact that
LIFE COMES ONLY FROM LIFE
now that science my friend.
But something that I learned further from this thread.
abioGenesis hypothesis on the other hand is NOT only a silly idea
but fundamentally founded on "I Don't Know".
Like I said - good luck with your search.
Nope, still not a shred of evidence for your unfounded opinions.
Nope, you're only illustrating your ignorance of science.
Nope, still not a shred of evidence for your unfounded opinions.
“By applying the strict canons of scientific method to this subject [the spontaneous generation of life], it is possible to demonstrate effectively at several places in the story, how life could not have arisen; the improbabilities are too great, the chances of the emergence of life too small.”
“Regrettably from this point of view, life is here on Earth in all its multiplicity of forms and activities and the arguments have to be bent round to support its existence.”
Originally posted by edmc^2
hahahaha...
Look I even went along as to pretend that God - the Creator doesn't exist - that ONLY SCIENCE exist - nothing more nothing less - ONLY SCIENCE EXIST - NO God.
Yet you can't even see what SCIENCE has done - it has proven that Life can ONLY arise from pre-existing life.
Science can't bring back the dead!
NO ONE can animate an inanimate thing.
YET "I Don't Know" - is your answer.
Am I talking to a non-thinking person here?
IDK.
“The only acceptable explanation is creation. I know that this is anathema to physicists, as indeed it is to me, but we must not reject a theory that we do not like if the experimental evidence supports it.”
“evolution became in a sense a scientific religion; almost all scientists have accepted it and many are prepared to ‘bend’ their observations to fit in with it."
“From my earliest training as a scientist I was very strongly brainwashed to believe that science cannot be consistent with any kind of deliberate creation. That notion has had to be very painfully shed. I am quite uncomfortable in the situation, the state of mind I now find myself in. But there is no logical way out of it. . . . For life to have been a chemical accident on earth is like looking for a particular grain of sand on all the beaches in all the planets in the universe—and finding it.”
Before you can claim god is responsible for anything in a scientific sense, it isn't unreasonable to first ask for verification of its existence. First, prove for us directly (as opposed to providing personal assumptions) that god exists (or leprechauns, or unicorns, or fairies) instead of offering only your belief...and we can take it from there. So that we can also directly observe this being in a verifiable and repeatable way.
Originally posted by Barcs
Originally posted by edmc^2
hahahaha...
Look I even went along as to pretend that God - the Creator doesn't exist - that ONLY SCIENCE exist - nothing more nothing less - ONLY SCIENCE EXIST - NO God.
Yet you can't even see what SCIENCE has done - it has proven that Life can ONLY arise from pre-existing life.
Science can't bring back the dead!
NO ONE can animate an inanimate thing.
YET "I Don't Know" - is your answer.
Am I talking to a non-thinking person here?
IDK.
But science hasn't proved that life can only come from life. I'm not sure why you keep repeating this despite it clearly being explained to you. Science doesn't yet know that answer of the origin of life, and claiming otherwise is a lie. Science is actively trying to find the answer. You are just sitting back and criticizing them for attempting to learn more about our origins, when you yourself are not looking for answers, you are just accepting what you are told by your parents or whoever else. Attacking a hypothesis because it hasn't been proved yet, is silly, because that's what defines a hypothesis. Like I said, it's similar to claiming the concept of cell phones was impossible 50 years ago. It's just making the assumption because our knowledge and technology hadn't reached those heights yet. Do you believe science is maxed out and will not learn any more from today forward?edit on 22-6-2012 by Barcs because: (no reason given)