Warhammer fan receives legal notice for uploading "modified" 3d models.

Warhammer fan receives legal notice for uploading "modified" 3d models.

www.wired.com

He tweaked the designs for a week until he was happy. “I put a lot of work into them,” he says. Then he posted the files for free downloading on Thingiverse, a site that lets you share instructions for printing 3-D objects. Soon other fans were outputting their own copies.

Until the lawyers showed up.

Games Workshop, the UK-based firm that makes Warhammer, noticed Valenty’s work and sent Thingiverse a takedown notice, citing the Digital Millennium Copyright Act.

(visit the link for the full news article)

Well obviously, he's a fan, and his reason for this isn't to create cheap duplicates to be sold, rather - modified copies to be shared amongst other fans.

But i don't blame games workshop as it could potentially damage sales of their overpriced products. (i remember collecting these when i was younger, and stopped at 1 box due to lack of pocket money haha)

But in saying that, he was modifying them with a creative goal. That was to bring about a community of enthusiastic fans, sharing their own work.

Of course it isn't seen that way where big business is involved.

So what are your thoughts, ATS? Could "physical piracy" be the next form of piracy? What sort of legal issues will it bring with it, and how far will they go with this? Would it become the huge mess that is digital music and movie piracy?

It could destroy the sales of overpriced genuine car parts, for example

I was browsing a diy 'hack' forum and saw a story about a few engineers in germany getting their hands on a cnc machine that was previously used for manufacturing wind turbines 50 meters in length.
(hackaday.com...)

www.wired.com
(visit the link for the full news article)

I am probably the biggest Warhammer nerd out there.
I just finished painting some Chaos Wordbearers.

I can understand both sides of this, actually.
Games workshop have a good business model partly because they protect it so well.

Originally posted by CodyOutlaw
Games workshop have a good business model partly because they protect it so well.

I'm sure with time, they may be fighting a losing battle. I'm not certain about it, but following the trends with current online sharing methods, it wouldn't be hard to copy their designs, really.

All someone would have to do, is compile a collection of war-hammer units, zip it, and put it all over the web, and that's all, or at least a large portion of games workshop's work.
It wouldn't even be a large file, either. Every figurine of a certain race would probably dwarf that of a movie file, making it shockingly easy, and decrease the time for "peer spy's" to hone in on other peers.
They would find it impossible to police.

I wonder what effect it would have on the model's value? haha. I've always sort of liked them because they were a bit pricey. That does sound a bit crazy, or maybe that's just me.

reply to post by xxdaniel21


Just Warhammer huh.

Damned good thing I got the hell out of Star Trek when I did, else Paramount Pictures' goons would be knocking on my door to reclaim potential petty penny losses for supporting the fans!

Greedy, Capitalist bastards.

reply to post by xxdaniel21


This is a really good issue to debate.

Some people think only physical works should have rights and others think any works should have rights. I think, where do we stop? Can I copyright the way I comb my hair if it is a work from the mind and body? How about the way I walk? What if every action was copyrighted? How would we even learn? e.g. Oh sorry, you can't use 1+1, that's copyrighted material.

History of patent law

In 500 BC, in the Greek city of Sybaris (located in what is now southern Italy), "encouragement was held out to all who should discover any new refinement in luxury, the profits arising from which were secured to the inventor by patent for the space of a year."

The above may be where it started, but where does it end?

Not sure what to make of this as I've not checked it properly yet, was a big fan of this game as a kid though! Was also surprised to realise that I really liked the Dawn of War game a few years back. Actually just thinking about it makes me want to check out some of the other games in that series.

As a kid I was well into Slaanesh, but now I'd definitely play Eldar! My massive geekery has recently passed to Magic The Gathering Online though and I have a feeling I'll be sticking with it for a long time to come.

*pumps nerd fist in the air*

Would the only choice for modelers be to create totally different designs? Or would they be then stopped from advertising for what games they are made?

When you see the quality of some mods made by the fans, I think it sometimes put to shame the creators... But I know for them it's a question of business, and money.

Could the example of modified cars, and the market of modified replacement parts, serve as a defense basis for this type of case? I never heard of a car manufacturer suing one of its customer for modifying a vehicle...

E-world businesses are so Fecukd Above...

In the CG world we've dealt with this before, except in the case I'm thinking of, and everyone will have to give me a day to find the forum post on it, Lockheed-Martin had told a digital artist that their rendition of one of their planes was in violation of the DMCA. It took a while and a LOT of arguing with Lockheed and they finally backed down, to my knowledge that was the last time that a company had done something such...

However it's always in the backs of our mind as we sometimes reproduce designs, and try to make them faithful to their originals that the next time it may be Paramount or Fox telling us that we can no longer produce a design.

The general rule of thumb has been - if you make it for fun and distribute the CG mesh for free there's no harm and no foul. If you start charging for a copyrighted design, then watch out and get a lawyer..

reply to post by xxdaniel21


this is kinda sad. withstanding the the rights the lawyers have to cease and desist its kinda important for a fan to be able to appreciate an artist work and critique.

reply to post by NowanKenubi

I never heard of a car manufacturer suing one of its customer for modifying a vehicle...

I have, but it involved modification to the carb so the car got better fuel efficiency. Copyright law is clear mess of a situation. With Walt Disney lobbying to push the terms of copyright to 75 years past the death of the author it is an abomination of copyrights original intention, to provide incentive for creativity. Now this kid finds his own incentive and gets drawn into head banger city as copyright now becomes perverted into a gravy train rift for exploitation and a power games. Pretty much lot a lot of the legal system these days.

In the end it comes down to what is most important, having great and wonderful creative works or some security in pumping more stuff no one really wants. Warhammer should pull its head out of its a$$ and give this kid a job.

reply to post by xxdaniel21


That's a really good point. Perhaps they'll have to move with the times, now?

reply to post by robhines


Slaanesh is cool, but I'm a Tzeentch man

Actually, I have a thousand point game tomorrow. The guy plays necrons, so I really hate playing him.
Heh.

Capitalism at it's most evilness.

This is why simple Consistency has been impossible to attain in a genre like Star Trek. One guy comes out with a specific ship design and gives it a class name. Another guy likes it and wants to use it but there's that Name in the way so he gives it a different class name. Another guy comes along and uses it, but to get away with not "stealing" royalties he draws it slightly differently to the point where it can belong to neither of the previous two class designations. So all continuity is screwed up.

Then there's the whole clashing of Star Trek "universes" which includes timelines, ship design theories, and tech.
Treknical Fandom vs. FASA vs. Star Fleet Battles etc. then some 'Canon' twit with a title comes along and fingers All of them and does things His Way--decades After these have become ingrained into Trekkers' hearts.

Originally posted by NowanKenubi
I never heard of a car manufacturer suing one of its customer for modifying a vehicle...

E-world businesses are so Fecukd Above...

That, they are. But as i work in an auto trade, i see the prices of genuine interior parts on a pretty regular basis.

To give you some sort of idea... something as simple as a plastic cover that slides over a door seal on the door step of a car, can cost over 100 dollars, and it doesn't have to be seeing it's JUST a piece of plastic.

But they can charge that price, because it is made by ford for their vehicles.

And in the case of replacement by owner or mechanic, i think it would be greatly considered building a non genuine replica.

Originally posted by robhines
As a kid I was well into Slaanesh, but now I'd definitely play Eldar!

haha i played wood elves in the original warhammer when i was around 12, but there was one good shop right in the city that required
a) more pocket money from my dad; and
b) a means of transport

It wasn't worth it haha, i had a few really good models, but was able to buy more when a lord of the rings version of the game came out.

Originally posted by vkey08
The general rule of thumb has been - if you make it for fun and distribute the CG mesh for free there's no harm and no foul. If you start charging for a copyrighted design, then watch out and get a lawyer..

Well that's what i always thought! It sort of limits people's creativity, and just paves the way for people keeping designs for themselves and charging for them - pushing us more into capitalistic behaviour where everything has a price tag.

And at the end of the day, some are left with no choice in these times where people aren't exactly "millionaires"

Games workshop and the 40k hobby helped me stop drinking so I am kinda in their debt so to say.

I am all for modifying designs, from "kit bashing" to full conversions, but this is wrong.

3D printers are going to lead to many lawsuits involving IP rights. Why buy a product when you can get it cheaper somewhere else. Games Workshop realizes this and limits (does not share) its intelectual property rights. Why should they? How much money have they invested in sculpters, game designers, writers, production equipment, and everything else involved in the game?

Buy their product or find another game, solution is simple.

reply to post by 200Plus


That is very true. They have taken risks, and invested in their own business, and why should people take that from them?

BUT, in saying that, there are certain companies that capitalize on overpriced goods, which makes it more "morally correct" (or less "wrong") for people to make duplicates.

It's the same logic as "would you steal from a small clothing store, as opposed to target?
Some people can't afford it, and will do it. There's no helping that.

On another note, would it be okay if people modified, or recreated them solely for their own use? The same way we buy a film on dvd, and upload it to our ipads, computers, etc, or would even THAT be regulated?

It opens so many legal issues here haha.

EDIT: By the way, good on you for getting rid of that habit, mate, and it's admirable that you found a replacement.

Personally I always thought that GWs stuff was way overpriced for what it was and a little too cartoony for my tastes.

We did enjoy our WHFRP, though and did get into the armies as well, my nuddy always played orcs and his army was called "The Green Tide" whereas I favored dwarves and named my army "The rock Rumblers" cheesy I know, but we were a lot younger.

Played tons of D&D too, all the way back to the Red Box (dating myself here) as well as Traveller (I sure wish a company would come out with a CRPG based on Traveller) and who could forget Blood Bowl?

What would happen if this guy made his own design from scratch but used GW's rules to play the actual battles?

Since, as mentioned above, I never like GWs figures, we usually used various D&D figures for our PCs. Would we be facing the possibility of a GW goonsquad barging in on our gaming session if we were using figures of our own design and their rule set?

I'm actually surprised. GW has always been one to embrace their fans innovations. When a couple of fans from Italy tried to convert the Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay to 40k it prompted them to finally make Dark Heresy. So if they're actually suing over this it must mean it's a legitimate threat to their continued existence.

reply to post by xxdaniel21


The only problem i can see is that he may have added the copyright name.
We have all seen cheap copy's of products on shelves and Nana's who have modified knitting patterns with logos on them.

So in my opinion he would have been ok as long as he didn't say anything about the Warhammer and Games Workshop.

The pieces he made and drew are not the same products that Gamesworkshop make. he could have stated he was influenced by the design.

love and harmony
Whateva