The Truth is Clear

I've read ATS for years. Probably going on 10 years now. However, I've never created a tread. Mostly I've read and enjoyed the experience of others opinions. However, now I'm ready to get involved.

I am an "armchair" theologian. I've studied most aspects and sacred texts of the predominant religions of the world. So after doing all this I have one question.

Why do we argue amongst each other when the basic, core teachings are so similar? Look at the teachings of Christianity, Buddhism, Islam, Hinduism, and others. The basic teachings are all the same. I realize that some believe in Monotheism, others are Henotheistic, and some Polytheism. However if we move beyond that most of the core teachings are similar.

Could it be that there is truly one source of all belief? Could it be that a spiritual course requires adherence to one path? Could it be that humankind has distorted it all with their own agenda's? Who is right and who is wrong? Is that the question? Or is it just the desire to build a better world around a belief that around a god we can all make this world a better place.

Could it be that if we learn to leave our preconceived opinions behind we find that we are all the same. No matter what "details" there are in the "law". We are all "children of the God" who simply need a way to guide us back to who we are?

The path may follow different ways, but in the end don't we all understand the same basic concepts?

These are questions I have. I'm interested in answers and honest conversation. I have no desire in argument or continued pursuit of dogma. Every religion teaches that ultimately we are spiritual beings. We are gods. We have the ability to create and destroy.

I look forward to your response.

Originally posted by intjus01
I've read ATS for years. Probably going on 10 years now. However, I've never created a tread. Mostly I've read and enjoyed the experience of others opinions. However, now I'm ready to get involved.

I am an "armchair" theologian. I've studied most aspects and sacred texts of the predominant religions of the world. So after doing all this I have one question.

Why do we argue amongst each other when the basic, core teachings are so similar? Look at the teachings of Christianity, Buddhism, Islam, Hinduism, and others. The basic teachings are all the same. I realize that some believe in Monotheism, others are Henotheistic, and some Polytheism. However if we move beyond that most of the core teachings are similar.

Could it be that there is truly one source of all belief? Could it be that a spiritual course requires adherence to one path? Could it be that humankind has distorted it all with their own agenda's? Who is right and who is wrong? Is that the question? Or is it just the desire to build a better world around a belief that around a god we can all make this world a better place.

Could it be that if we learn to leave our preconceived opinions behind we find that we are all the same. No matter what "details" there are in the "law". We are all "children of the God" who simply need a way to guide us back to who we are?

The path may follow different ways, but in the end don't we all understand the same basic concepts?

These are questions I have. I'm interested in answers and honest conversation. I have no desire in argument or continued pursuit of dogma. Every religion teaches that ultimately we are spiritual beings. We are gods. We have the ability to create and destroy.

I look forward to your response.

Cool question.

I think deep down, despite all doctrines, moral codes and tablets, we as a species find it in our best interests to control our animal impulses and instincts.

As communities grew, it probably became mutually beneficial to have some sort of common ground or moral code. I would also say that this moral code is something that is self-evident, merely because it is a necessity, as humans have to engage other humans on a daily basis. It becomes a survival technique for a completely social animal.

I also agree that in religion, moral codes show an even ground. Confucius discussed the Golden Rule hundreds of years before Jesus. And Christianity took a lot from Plato. These and many other philosophies travelled all over Asia, Africa and Europe probably shaping the moral codes of many religions.

reply to post by LesMisanthrope


Thanks for your response. I agree that based on history most of the division came via cultural evolution. My goal is to understand as we have advanced, why has this continued and why do so many religions cling to it when we are so close in belief.

I do see theology as the one clear pathway out of all this religious confrontation and conflict. As with all of life, diversity is the one constant, but there are some very clear and highly respected guidelines on what it mean to be human and how we should behave for both the individual and greater good. As someone well educated in this field it is good to see that there is a lot of common ground, humanity needs it as much has become out of focus with the complexity that has grown.

What are the main common points?

reply to post by intjus01

Why do we argue amongst each other when the basic, core teachings are so similar?

The "devil" is in the details and "we" do not argue about the core issues or teachings.

Could it be that there is truly one source of all belief?

Yes the "belief" is in our selves, it is not externally to anyone of us. The source of faith is the source of willing reality. The only reality is the one each of us creates, it is distinct, individual, hard to share and life defining...

Could it be that a spiritual course requires adherence to one path? Could it be that humankind has distorted it all with their own agenda's? Who is right and who is wrong?

Spirituality has nothing to do with the any-other path beside self understanding and enrichment (spiritual one). These are the core offerings in most religions, a definitions and understanding of what your are (in accordance to the dogma) and they "intend" to provide you and involve you with that peruse on their terms, the multiple paths. While doing that they are preventing people to be free to by themselves reach true self enlightenment.

One that reaches a point of being that it believes he is truly enlightened do not question it, he knows and at the same time is able to deal, evolve and accept that others will reach similar but distinct states of understanding on the meaning of all.

Forcing someone to comply with your view of reality is not a goal of enlightened beings, individuality is precious and should be recognized by being the only way ideas can evolve. In a single minded environment there is no place for the emergence of new realizations.

The path may follow different ways, but in the end don't we all understand the same basic concepts?

With the imposition upon one self of any shared dogma, one stops to be free to think outside of that set box. My view is that the end is not unique, but individual, an so very difficult become fully sharable.

Basic concepts are indeed valid and shared even in most "standardized" paths, as you state in your first question.

Originally posted by intjus01
Every religion teaches that ultimately we are spiritual beings. We are gods. We have the ability to create and destroy.

Islam's main message is to teach us that there in only ONE god. and that our free will is the ultimate test.

But yes your right many of the religions are similar, Islam's explanation for this is that god sent many messengers to spead gods words. e.g Abraham, Jesus, Moses, Muhammed, Noah etc etc

reply to post by _Phoenix_


So long as you obey, serve, and don't manage to annoy the messenger or his stable of women. Much of whom he siphoned his wealth and subsequent power from.

Path to higher consciousness begins with childlike innocence.

Promote action to gain various types of understanding.

Condense units of such understanding to council.

Integrate this council into a single director.

Utilize director to reach out to others.

Reach out to others via sacrifice.

Become sacrifice to expand.

Expand to unite as "One."



The End of Line Club...

reply to post by intjus01




Whilst reading your post two points hit me between the eyes to quote you

"why do we argue amongst each other when the core teachings are so similar" AND

"The path may follow different ways but in the end don't we all understand the same

basic concepts"


There is something else that has come down from the first recorded history which

puzzles me and it is the subjugation of women. [although in the last 100 or so years

in the West it has improved] An instance - Women [usually muslims] who cover

themselves from head to toe and hide their faces [and i have heard that it is supposed

to be their own choice] but here i would say they have been indoctrinated into believing

this!

As i said before although it is some what better in the west we still don't have female

Bishops or Popes? And the percentage of women at the top in commerce is minimal

As the saying goes 'The hand that rocks the cradle is the hand that rules the world'

So when there is 100% equality we may get more 'understanding' and less 'war'?

I realise my points are not totally religious but it is within religions that this division

of men and women begin!

To say that man is god is a mistake, IMO. There is no doubt that man, and everything else, is connected to the source. However, Man is the only creature (on this planet) that can consciously influence his reality in any way he wants. Perhaps Man are gods in the making? I really don't know, but I think the purpose of religion, and of life itself, should be defeating the "animal" in man. Re-discovering the source that your soul decided to separate itself from, the inner voice.

reply to post by intjus01


I have an analogy about God and all spiritual beliefs.

God is like a huge mountain...and standing at the base of the mountain...are people from every country and religion...these people are holding hands and are in a circle....and....they are all looking up...at the same mountain.

I believe there are many paths to (heaven)...and it is the condition of a person's spirit and soul...and how they treat themselves and others...that gets them in ...or keeps them out of (heaven).

Indeed..
I also study theology, and my personal opinion.. all this arguing, all the fighting, all the criticism and hate towards others in the name of God, it's all unnecessary. However, if just one of these beliefs was proven right, 100%, then that would eliminate the ideal of faith, the core to most beliefs. When there is absolutely no way to prove something wrong, and no way to make another question the belief they cling on to, then there is no more such thing as free will. If you can't *not* believe it, you don't have a choice but to know it's real, then you can't deny it.

And I think that's the beautiful thing, we can deny it, if we choose to. It can be disputed from a different view. But I don't think the wars will ever stop.. you just can't convince that many people to just STOP and get along.. unless of course you are God.

Our consciousness, faith, God, and fate may all be intertwined into one ball of existence that goes so much further than what we can see.. perhaps.
Love.

Originally posted by intjus01
reply to post by LesMisanthrope

 

Thanks for your response. I agree that based on history most of the division came via cultural evolution. My goal is to understand as we have advanced, why has this continued and why do so many religions cling to it when we are so close in belief.

Self preservation of the institution itself. No religion is going to discontinue just because there are other systems that have similar teachings, the whole point is that they are mutually exclusive, - offering something the other is not. The people who recognize this take their choice to abandon or remain loyal to their religion. I don't think people are denying that many religions are similar in their essence as to giving man purpose, but think about how people have been raised over the hundreds of years. Parents don't raise their kids to be open minded critical thinkers, they mold their children to fit views that they want them to have, and the logic goes that you as a parent made the correct choice, so your children shall too. Even though the leniency in raising children has changed in more recent times, most of the logic remains in terms of explaining the world the way you understand it. So even if you are an open minded parent, if you belong to a religion, children carry that sense of trust with themselves and believe what the parents believe.

There seems to be a constant battle of spiritual evolution and dogmatic obstructionism. there are also negative entities who's opportunism is peppering religion with a great deal of traps to ensnare the people who would only seek to get closer to the prime creator and the truth of existence itself.I submit it is so muddy it will not be clear until everyone has psychic capabilities or we get a jump start from the outside.Universal love isn't possible as man is locked into perceptions of the prime material plane.If we expand our consciousness together then and only then could we supercede our current paradigm.
Otherwise it would be perceived (as it is) to be an aberration and be quite limited in it's scope and a subjective thing.

Originally posted by _Phoenix_

Originally posted by intjus01
Every religion teaches that ultimately we are spiritual beings. We are gods. We have the ability to create and destroy.

Islam's main message is to teach us that there in only ONE god. and that our free will is the ultimate test.

But yes your right many of the religions are similar, Islam's explanation for this is that god sent many messengers to spead gods words. e.g Abraham, Jesus, Moses, Muhammed, Noah etc etc

edit on 1-6-2012 by _Phoenix_ because: (no reason given)

You overlook "God is NOT THE AUTHOR OF CONFUSION" and therefore He didn't send Muhammad, otherwise you too would have heard the good news of the gospel.

Originally posted by WhoKnows100

Originally posted by _Phoenix_

Originally posted by intjus01
Every religion teaches that ultimately we are spiritual beings. We are gods. We have the ability to create and destroy.

Islam's main message is to teach us that there in only ONE god. and that our free will is the ultimate test.

But yes your right many of the religions are similar, Islam's explanation for this is that god sent many messengers to spead gods words. e.g Abraham, Jesus, Moses, Muhammed, Noah etc etc

edit on 1-6-2012 by _Phoenix_ because: (no reason given)

You overlook "God is NOT THE AUTHOR OF CONFUSION" and therefore He didn't send Muhammad, otherwise you too would have heard the good news of the gospel.

The good news of the gospel?
The christian religion is probably the most confusing of all, consider how much it has been changed.

P.S I'm not trying to have a "which religion is right/best debate" here, I'm just stating what the main message of the quran is, that it states several times there is only one god.

The fundamental ideologies of most religions are the same. They all derived from the so called “truth”. Over many millennia, the “truth” has been manipulated and twisted for the creation of various religions whether it be for control or the search for enlightenment.

What most people don’t understand though is that the “truth” resides in one’s self and not in a society or religion although various societies partake in hiding the truth. The “truth” is our individual interpretation and understanding of life.

Originally posted by caladonea
reply to post by intjus01

 

I have an analogy about God and all spiritual beliefs.

God is like a huge mountain...and standing at the base of the mountain...are people from every country and religion...these people are holding hands and are in a circle....and....they are all looking up...at the same mountain.

I believe there are many paths to (heaven)...and it is the condition of a person's spirit and soul...and how they treat themselves and others...that gets them in ...or keeps them out of (heaven).

This is all very cosmetic but it defys the authority of scripture. For if we accept the idea of God we must accept his ability to geet us a message he wants us to have, And that message says wide are the gates of well you know ?

reply to post by intjus01


Having studied World Religions (long ago in a seminary college) I gained a wide and diverse perspective on the commonality of most religious beliefs. As you have so suscintly observed in your opening observation, They (religions) all base thier philosophy on the existance of a Greater (God) being/Creator. They all pursue a path to achieve enlightenment via various means of self discipline or the like. They all seek a path of non violence and peace between the members. Most also strive to accept the existance and tollerance of those that do not adhere to thier particular faiths.
On the whole, all religions are of like mind, but the problem exists when the dogma/faith is corrupted and twisted to meet the ambitions of those who profess to be the "spokesperson" for the various "diety", as well as the entire congregation.
Man is weak, both spirtually and physically.
I'm sure you reall the old adage " power corrupts, absolute power corrupts... "

If religion could exist without "leaders"/ministers/Hierarchy/etc, we might all have a better chance at co-existance.
This, of course, is not the only issue to plague organized religion but, imo, it is one of the more prominant ones.

Keep the peace!

reply to post by intjus01


I believe the breadths of the texts are so wide that it allowed people to single out individual lines and take them out of context. Or, that there are old, dated concepts that just are not applicable to today's times, and that if someone tried to follow them today, they'd be committing murder or some other serious crime.

What really doesn't make sense to me is that 'God' is considered the good guy but "he" or "she" does all the killing. That's really nice. Make a human vulnerable to temptation then kill him for giving in to it. God would be good if he just made us robots that did whatever he said. (There are plenty of people like that, but it hasn't been perfected.)

Anyhow, radicals or fundamentalists always end up taking things and using them to do violence, hiding behind the "holy" bible. Sure it's holy if you're using it to kill someone else! Just like the war on terror will stop wars!

There is also what I call the “phenomenal driver” of religions. For example, phenomenal occurrences regarding our solar system and the “movement through the heavens” such as the solstice appear to be phenomenal and “god-like” as to why these dates occur so often in various religions.

If these “phenomena” were not implemented into religions, then the religions would not appear so god-like and thus, they would not succeed successfully as a religion.