The Eurozone collapse, socialism writ large.

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posted on Jun, 2 2012 @ 02:39 PM
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I like how the OP keeps using the word "Socialist' completely wrong, and yet just pushes forward with his entirely inaccurate understanding, even when presented, repeatedly, with contrary facts.




posted on Jun, 2 2012 @ 02:41 PM
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So socialism (in whatever form) caused the Eurozone crisis?
Nothing at all to do with those temples of uber capitalism, the banks, then?
What a joke.
The richest organisations in the world made some bad bets and every government uses that as an excuse to harry the poorest people into the gutter in order to pay the bankers (by screwing their pensions, their healthcare and their educations)...

One thing I don't get, though is this.
Any financial transaction has a winner and a loser, you sell a share, if it falls right after you win, if it rises you lose.
Someone always makes on the deal, right?
So who made on the deals that left so many big banks in trouble? The money didn't just cease to exist.



posted on Jun, 2 2012 @ 02:41 PM
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Originally posted by stanguilles7
I like how the OP keeps using the word "Socialist' completely wrong, and yet just pushes forward with his entirely inaccurate understanding, even when presented, repeatedly, with contrary facts.


That's what right wingers rely on in America. They rely on the ignorance of most Americans, Americans think Socialist = Evil.



posted on Jun, 2 2012 @ 02:48 PM
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Originally posted by beezzer
reply to post by ANOK
 
Because my uncle (who's British) died last year because at 72, he was deemed too old to receive a kidney transplant.
YAY nationalized healthcare!


So why didn't he go private then? I mean it's there if you want it. See, they have a choice.

But I think you might want to read this mate...


Most renal units do not have an age limit for kidney transplantation. People are considered on merit (ie their suitability for a transplant), rather than age. However, having said that, most units would think very seriously before transplanting someone over 65 years old. The main reason is that older people often do not tolerate the transplant operation very well. Also, the drugs that are needed after a transplant are often too strong for older people.


www.kidney.org.uk...

Hmmm? Thoughts?

Edit; BTW 65 is the limit in the US also...

65 years of age should not be used to limit access to kidney transplantation

It has nothing to do with national health care.

edit on 6/2/2012 by ANOK because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 2 2012 @ 02:49 PM
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reply to post by stanguilles7
 
Nawww, I started this thread because I perceived similarities between failed socialistic programs and the crisis in the Eurozone.

I challenge, I reply, I counter, not to fulfill any agenda but to learn.

I will concede on certain issues that I came in with, who couldn't? But I will continue to question and challenge.

It's how slow people like me learn.



posted on Jun, 2 2012 @ 02:50 PM
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Originally posted by ANOK

Originally posted by beezzer
reply to post by ANOK
 
Because my uncle (who's British) died last year because at 72, he was deemed too old to receive a kidney transplant.
YAY nationalized healthcare!


So why didn't he go private then? I mean it's there if you want it. See, they have a choice.

But I think you might want to read this mate...


Most renal units do not have an age limit for kidney transplantation. People are considered on merit (ie their suitability for a transplant), rather than age. However, having said that, most units would think very seriously before transplanting someone over 65 years old. The main reason is that older people often do not tolerate the transplant operation very well. Also, the drugs that are needed after a transplant are often too strong for older people.


www.kidney.org.uk...

Hmmm? Thoughts?


He's family. If you wanted a rational discourse on the subject, you'd only be disappointed.

Sorry.



posted on Jun, 2 2012 @ 02:51 PM
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Originally posted by beezzer
reply to post by stanguilles7
 
Nawww, I started this thread because I perceived similarities between failed socialistic programs and the crisis in the Eurozone.




Great. Hopefully you now understand that it was actually due to 'failed capitalistic programs', and your further analysis will reflect such a more accurate understanding of world economics.

Reading some actual NEWS, and not just punditry within an echo chamber would be a GREAT place to start if you want to understand these terms.
edit on 2-6-2012 by stanguilles7 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 2 2012 @ 02:54 PM
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Originally posted by beezzer
He's family. If you wanted a rational discourse on the subject, you'd only be disappointed.

Sorry.


I'm sorry for the loss of your uncle, but to use him as an excuse to try to slander the NHS, and then make this hand waving reply is a little much mate.

You're hear to learn? Starting to sound a little trollish to me. C'mon Beezzer I was starting to like you.

edit on 6/2/2012 by ANOK because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 2 2012 @ 03:03 PM
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Originally posted by ANOK

Originally posted by beezzer
He's family. If you wanted a rational discourse on the subject, you'd only be disappointed.

Sorry.


I'm sorry for the loss of your uncle, but to use him as an excuse to try to slander the NHS, and then make this hand waving reply is a little much mate.

You're hear to learn? Starting to sound a little trollish to me. C'mon Beezzer I was starting to like you.

edit on 6/2/2012 by ANOK because: (no reason given)


Growing up in the UK, I have stories plenty.

But since I can't separate emotional from rational on some issues, I just tend to avoid debate.



posted on Jun, 2 2012 @ 03:06 PM
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Originally posted by beezzer

I can't separate emotional from rational on some issues, I just tend to avoid debate.


I've noticed
edit on 2-6-2012 by stanguilles7 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 2 2012 @ 03:09 PM
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Originally posted by stanguilles7

Originally posted by beezzer
reply to post by stanguilles7
 
Nawww, I started this thread because I perceived similarities between failed socialistic programs and the crisis in the Eurozone.




Great. Hopefully you now understand that it was actually due to 'failed capitalistic programs', and your further analysis will reflect such a more accurate understanding of world economics.

Reading some actual NEWS, and not just punditry within an echo chamber would be a GREAT place to start if you want to understand these terms.
edit on 2-6-2012 by stanguilles7 because: (no reason given)


I'm not willing to throw in the towel on capitalism just yet.

But I am just a newb when it comes to economics.
edit on 2-6-2012 by beezzer because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 2 2012 @ 03:10 PM
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Originally posted by stanguilles7

Originally posted by beezzer

I can't separate emotional from rational on some issues, I just tend to avoid debate.


I've noticed
edit on 2-6-2012 by stanguilles7 because: (no reason given)



Oooh, snap!



posted on Jun, 2 2012 @ 03:37 PM
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Originally posted by beezzer
Growing up in the UK, I have stories plenty.

But since I can't separate emotional from rational on some issues, I just tend to avoid debate.


I grew up in the UK, I didn't leave until I was 24, I've seen it on both sides of the pond.

I remember lots of stories about how bad the NHS is when I lived there, but like most sensationalized stories they were either highly exaggerated, or simply not true. See what you claimed about your uncle is how these kind of false rumours get spread, especially on teh net. The NHS is far from perfect, but it's as good as any system anywhere, if not better, including the USA.

That's a nice convenient excuse to have to avoid a debate you know you've already lost. (not that I debate to win, this is not about winning and losing, just trying to share knowledge, it gets frustrating to be continually challenged when the challenger doesn't acknowledge the reply, or even reply when they're challenged)

edit on 6/2/2012 by ANOK because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 2 2012 @ 03:42 PM
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reply to post by ANOK
 

*sigh*

Seeing both sides, I know too how it is.

I used to argue FOR it.

So start another thread, I accept any challenge.



posted on Jun, 3 2012 @ 09:44 PM
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the zionist jews control the economy in eurozone and causing these economic problems



posted on Jun, 3 2012 @ 11:52 PM
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reply to post by beezzer
 


But this debate hasn't really been about sides, it's about misunderstandings of terms.

Those terms need to be understood in order to debate 'sides' from any common understanding.



posted on Jun, 4 2012 @ 01:15 AM
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Originally posted by beezzer
reply to post by ANOK
 

*sigh*

Seeing both sides, I know too how it is.

I used to argue FOR it.

So start another thread, I accept any challenge.


I jumped the gun a bit with my previous reply. I see now you're talking about the NHS specifically? My mind was back on the previous discussion lol.

Personally, as I said, I just don't think public services should be in the hands of private owners, for profit.





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