4,000 years ago, climate change caused massive civilization collapse

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posted on Jun, 1 2012 @ 12:52 PM
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reply to post by ANNED
 


That's interesting because my tribe went through the same thing here in Southern California. There used to be a lake called Lake Cahuilla that my tribe used to live by and their way of life was based on that lake. It dried up in a very short amount of time (I forget why), and turned to desert. Well today it is all desert here and my ancestors had to learn to live from the canyons instead during the brutal summer months. Now the canyons are an integral part of my tribe. Just with this one example I believe humans have an amazing ability to adapt to their circumstances to survive. I find it hard to believe that humanity as we know it is only 4,000 years old. I believe humanity and civilization go back thousands if not tens of thousands of years more than history gives our ancestors credit for, especially with the evidence of the sunken cities. I can only hope we learn the truth sometime in the near future. I honestly just have the feeling that we as a civilization have lost a lot of ancient knowledge and power (not supernatural but whatever forces/power that was behind the building of such great feats like the pyramids or the Aztec/Mayan temples). Maybe we'll regain it someday.




posted on Jun, 1 2012 @ 01:50 PM
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Between 5000 and 10,000 years ago Nevada went from a state with one of the largest lakes

Which means climate change has existed since the beginning of this planet and has gone under numerous changes lakes have become deserts, and desert become lakes, and without "man made interference".

Climate change has cause civilization collapses since long before recorded history hell even when a volcano or super volcano goes off that is climate change because of what gets released from them.

Man is nothing compared to climate change and he thinks he is a master in his own mind.



posted on Jun, 1 2012 @ 01:57 PM
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Originally posted by SLAYER69
They found "Slightly higher than average" radiation and a bunch of human skeletal remains lying huddled together face down in the streets and which showed no sign of scavenger mutilation/molestation of the bodies.

So, what does one deduce from that?

Well, as half the planet will have higher than average radiation and skeletal remains are often found huddled together....I don't think we can deduce anything. Not just from those factoids anyway.



posted on Jun, 1 2012 @ 02:02 PM
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Originally posted by FissionSurplus
It does seem that the oldest cities are now under water,

Really? Such as?



posted on Jun, 1 2012 @ 02:22 PM
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I read this article yesterday and found it very informative. The breakdown from large urban settings on river way's to smaller farming communities caused a cultural stagnation. People in cities have more free time it seems. How long would it take for the descendants to forget what their forebearers knew?

"They had cities ordered into grids, with exquisite plumbing, which was not encountered again until the Romans," Read more: www.foxnews.com...
Achievements like this would have no place in smaller settlements where survival took priority. I imagine after a couple of generations the achievments they once made would have faded into myth being that the information was passed down orally.



posted on Jun, 1 2012 @ 04:20 PM
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Thanks Slayer for posting this!


This timeline our human history has always fascinated me.
Something happened 4000 years ago that changed how civilization started.
But I have always bough into the theory of previous civilizations that were wiped out by the rising seas ,thus covering up the evidence .

And written languages have fascinated me also.
They seem to start around 3500 years ago.
www.ancientscripts.com...

Coincidence?

But is this the earliest know writing?


The Tărtăria tablets are three tablets, discovered in 1961 by archaeologist Nicolae Vlassa at a Neolithic site in the village of Tărtăria (about 30 km (19 mi) from Alba Iulia), in Romania.[1] The tablets, dated to around 5300 BC[2], bear incised symbols - the Vinča symbols - and have been the subject of considerable controversy among archaeologists, some of whom claim that the symbols represent the earliest known form of writing in the world.


en.wikipedia.org...
edit on 1-6-2012 by kdog1982 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 1 2012 @ 05:37 PM
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Originally posted by benrl
Humanity in its current form has been around some 200-250k years, civilization rose in the the last 10k... Something seems off about that to me...

Thats from the current smartest of us is no smarter than the smartest man 250k years ago, we may have more "knowledge" but actual brain powers the same...

So it took humanity 200k years to get off is ass and do something? I think not.


Thats a bit of a leap..how could one possibly know what brain power is at work

something stagnating for 200k+ years, then suddenly and rapidly advancing.
Well, first off, lets establish that humanity has been around for that long (my understanding was about 40k for current form homo-sapians...yes, I know about the ancient archeology stuff, but I don't believe that just yet..I do consider it, but more evidence needs to come forward to support it).

If its found out that indeed we have been here for a quarter million years, and then one day, after 200k years of nothing, we started advancing (rapidly)..then its time to consider intervention...something outside altering the system.

Wouldn't it be weird if tomorrow we came across a pack of monkeys building a pyramid and carrying around armor..eyebrows would certainly raise.



posted on Jun, 1 2012 @ 05:42 PM
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reply to post by SLAYER69
 


I am always looking for connections to the truth about our climate, so thanks for the thread, I do however think it rather odd that back then they could not survive a mini ice age better than people today.



posted on Jun, 1 2012 @ 05:42 PM
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Originally posted by FatherLukeDuke

Originally posted by FissionSurplus
It does seem that the oldest cities are now under water,

Really? Such as?


Here is a neat little cliffnotes website with some pics
Go swimming

Its clear the environment shifted during the ancient era...

Imagine living in a coastal region and watching the water rise higher and higher.
Its no wonder there are soo many worldwide stories of a major flood. Ya, I totally buy into a ending of the ice age and a increasing temp making water levels rise...I am just wondering if there was a sudden meltoff to account for the lost cities (I would think a inch or so each year verses a sudden massive flooding..but would need a proper scientist to explain this one)



posted on Jun, 1 2012 @ 05:44 PM
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Originally posted by antar
reply to post by SLAYER69
 


I am always looking for connections to the truth about our climate, so thanks for the thread, I do however think it rather odd that back then they could not survive a mini ice age better than people today.


Whats odd about that?
Well, they survived..not everyone mind you, but clearly by us being here, plenty did. But, you gotta also remember, they didn't have a massive understanding of global trends.

How will we deal with the next ice age? I think we will fair a lot better than our ancestors..we have heating, energy, etc etc etc...so, it won't be nearly as catastrophic as it would be in a primitive stage of development.

Frankly, when you look at the history of humans, its surprising we made it as far as we did, what with the various natural disasters, plagues, etc...



posted on Jun, 1 2012 @ 05:45 PM
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Well its sure pretty close to the actual time when the flood overwhelmed the earth. Its pretty hard to have a civilization under water, and with no people alive. And its interesting about 4000-4400 years ago is when scientists can predict when civilizations started to expand very fast, and when all the major laguage systems started to emerge.



posted on Jun, 1 2012 @ 06:45 PM
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Great to see a thread by a well respected member socking it to the global warming brigade


Gonna take a stab, and suggest a pole shift occured about 4000 years ago ?

With regards to the humans found huddled together with higher radiation levels be related to radon ? As it is naturally occuring, I read something the other week about Scotland having raised radon awareness.



posted on Jun, 1 2012 @ 07:08 PM
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What's so hard about believing that a worldwide flood happened 4,000 years ago?

It seems that people want to avoid the Biblical perspective, when it says that God flooded the entire world (which would settle so many geological anomalies). They just slap on several million years and climate change or whatever. Then the alternative theorists come in and claim it was a rogue body out in the solar system or a catastrophic shifting of the poles; which both of those have very little weight backing it up.



posted on Jun, 1 2012 @ 07:22 PM
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sorry no link but Meso-America is full of abandoned cities and vanished civilizations (Olmecs, Mayans)
many theories that climate change also did them in, or at least outgrew/exhausted the agriculture

read somewhere, China's history, revolution every 200-300 years caused by flooding and famine.
lots of cyclical history.



posted on Jun, 1 2012 @ 07:29 PM
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Originally posted by SLAYER69
reply to post by FissionSurplus
 


They found "Slightly higher than average" radiation and a bunch of human skeletal remains lying huddled together face down in the streets and which showed no sign of scavenger mutilation/molestation of the bodies.

So, what does one deduce from that?
edit on 1-6-2012 by SLAYER69 because: (no reason given)
An early nuclear war.Beside radio activity there was also evidense of very high temps on the stones.



posted on Jun, 1 2012 @ 07:36 PM
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Originally posted by SLAYER69


Many feel {as do I} that the areas cultural beginnings happened offshore in a now submerged location just off the coast where when at around 9,000 or 10,000 BC the Coastlines were flooded out by the last of the ice age melt off. The people simply moved inland up the river valley where they began again.

Your thoughts?
edit on 1-6-2012 by SLAYER69 because:
9,0000 or 10,0000 BC? Changed to the correct esitmated age LOL


oh... This makes sense.

I have often wondered why civilization seemed to just pop up fully formed out of nowhere. This could explain that. It didn't. The earlier versions, the transition from wandering around to living in cities is under water. Then when they moved, they just copied what they already knew how to do. They would also then build bigger structures to try and make sure the evidence doesn't go away. This would also give them a need to record history, and hide that history away in giant monuments so that the past would not be lost to the future as their former past was.

I like it.

Didn't William Henry say something about structures off the coast of India?? I think it was him, but it may have been Grahm Hancock. I get them confused, but one of them dives, and explored the coasts of India were fishermen told them structures were there. They also dived the coastline of Japan...

In that Zelda game you start off and there are these crazy legends of the past. Giant kingdoms and heroes, but none of it seems to exist anywhere. You ride around in a boat going from island to island. It's not till later in the game that you realize these "islands" are really just mountain tops, and the kingdoms in the legends are under water.


~Dusty



posted on Jun, 1 2012 @ 07:53 PM
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I'm an anthropology student, archeology specifically. I hope to earn my Ph.D in a couple of years. Shows on TV such as Ancient Aliens actually played a part in my choosing such a field. Fascinating stuff.

Having learned something of the methodology and dating techniques, as well as the scientific method and the responsibility that a scientist must adhere to I'm afraid that most of the mysteries have disappeared from before my eyes. Much of what is seen on Ancient Aliens is junk. There are a few exceptions.

Like the OP I too believe that there is something missing in our prehistoric record. I cannot really put my finger on it though.

The great pyramid simply was not constructed in the time frame claimed IMO. As pointed out in Ancient Aliens there were just too many stone blocks. There is no great challenge in moving the stones however. The combined efforts of even 40 men equals a great deal of moving potential.

Clearly much is lost to sea level rise. However, I can't see where a professional can support the idea that there are significant civilizations that predate circa 4000BC. There are ample examples across Europe and everywhere else of what civilization was in 6000 and 8000BC. In every known example it was pretty rudimentary; the forerunners of what was to come. One cannot expect to find advanced civilization and its' arcane beginnings in the same time and region. While carbon14 dating is fallable it is generally good. Very good indeed within the time frame we are talking about. Plus, the degree of uncertainty of a given date can be obtained thanks to outliers during the analysis process.

Science simply must be conservative to be of value. Scientists are not inclined to step out on a limb and risk their reputation. That said, when the evidence is there it is there. I cannot fathom respectable, non-fringe scientists not jumping on great mysteries. For this reason I have come to believe that most of the mystery found in history is not rooted in fantastical things. I did say "most".
edit on 1-6-2012 by Erectus because: correction



posted on Jun, 1 2012 @ 08:13 PM
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There are examples of civilization as far back as 8-9000BC. We see village life, including some well built structures, but nothing all that large. There is clear evidence of the emergence of stratification and class society. There was often a communal structure that served religious purposes. Defensive walls and embankments were common. Generally we are talking about dozens up to a few hundred people. In the beginning the larger villages were situated along trade routes. In a time before agriculture had developed into a mainstay a given area simply could not support large populations of sedentary people. Places ideal for trade could support the largest populations.

By 5-6000BC we can find larger examples of what was becoming an intermediate civilization. Many hundreds lived in some villages with large swaths of hinterland attached, which supported lesser villages. Agriculture was now in full swing as people adapted plants over time to deliver more and better food. All this set up the emergence of what we typically think of as civilization by 4000BC. Egypt, while large and well known, was not the only example.

This entire series of events became possible only because we entered the holocene period. Before that we were hunter-gatherers, which mandated a mobile lifestyle of small bands numbering little more than a dozen, perhaps 2 dozen people.
edit on 1-6-2012 by Erectus because: spelling correction



posted on Jun, 1 2012 @ 08:16 PM
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Originally posted by SLAYER69
reply to post by FissionSurplus
 


They found "Slightly higher than average" radiation and a bunch of human skeletal remains lying huddled together face down in the streets and which showed no sign of scavenger mutilation/molestation of the bodies.

So, what does one deduce from that?
edit on 1-6-2012 by SLAYER69 because: (no reason given)


Hmmm,

Solar Radiation ? Couldnt have been man-made Radiation...........



posted on Jun, 1 2012 @ 08:35 PM
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reply to post by SLAYER69
 

Hey Slayer,

I'm in general agreement with you that something of a highly unusual nature happened approximately 4000 years ago on a planetary scale that severely and significantly affected humanity.

In fact, I'll go a step further and give you an almost exact date period when this "event" took place ... it was around 2340BC - 2350BC.





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