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Where does gun ownership stand in light of the bible

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posted on Jun, 1 2012 @ 07:52 AM
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NOTE - This thread is NOT about political arguments for or against gun ownership, but rather Tto discuss gun ownership from a christian perspective.

I was running searches on google earlier today on the subject of christians and gun culture in America. After much reading, my understanding is that American Christians consider gun ownership an inherent right. I've noticed that the 2nd Amendment is usually cited to defend the right to own guns. Then doesn't it mean that Christian gun owners rely on non-biblical law to uphold the right to gun-ownership? If not, then what biblical verses can you cite that justifies gun ownership.

I cant find a single instance where Jesus advocated ownership of weapons for "self defense" or "sport hunting" (or whatever else gun owners cite). From what I know, Jesus instructed his disciples to "buy a swords" but later on asked Peter to put his sword back in his place saying "all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword.". Another thing to consider is that there is no known instance of Jesus or his disciples using swords or any other weapons for "self defense"... but rather went about their missions enduring persecution.

So keeping all that in mind...

1. Where does the very idea of Christian gun ownership stand in light of the bible? Or even Jesus' teachings?

2. If you start facing persecution for your beliefs (according to your interpretation of revelations) would you use your guns against enemy? If so, how does that make you any different from say, the Afghans (who also have a very strong gun culture) and who use their guns to fight off invaders?




posted on Jun, 1 2012 @ 08:10 AM
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reply to post by sk0rpi0n
 


Comparable to guns in their culture would be swords I suppose. And Jesus told his followers to sell their cloaks and get one if they didn't have one before they ventured out on their missonary journeys.



posted on Jun, 1 2012 @ 08:24 AM
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reply to post by sk0rpi0n
 


There isn't a connection. Many Christians in America kind of mash together our constitution with biblical law. It's not remotely theologically sound. The bible says people are given the government God thinks they need, not the best one possible. So by bible standards a military dictatorship is no less Christian than democracy. The notion democracy is prescribed by the bible is a fallacy.

If you had a gun and didn't fight off invaders your either dumb or scared. Christian, atheist, etc. none of us want to live in bondage.



posted on Jun, 1 2012 @ 08:31 AM
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reply to post by NOTurTypical
 



Comparable to guns in their culture would be swords I suppose. And Jesus told his followers to sell their cloaks and get one if they didn't have one before they ventured out on their missonary journeys.


A sword for what?
Also when did any of the disciples use swords in self defense...apart from the instance when Peter attacked a soldier.... resulting in Jesus asked Peter to put his sword away.

Also nothing is known about disciples using swords to resist anybody... rather they endured persecution without swords.



posted on Jun, 1 2012 @ 08:36 AM
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I wish gun laws were a little more relaxed in Australia, Id have a gun or two.
I could kill somebody with my chain saw or a Hammer or my car or myself on my Kawasaki.
Its a tool, why the beat up comment.

Its not acceptable to use it to hurt anyone, the bible states its not acceptable to say horrible thing to people but we have a tongue.
Silly question skorp, even for you.



posted on Jun, 1 2012 @ 08:39 AM
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Luke 22:36-38

36 Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.
37 For I say unto you, that this that is written must yet be accomplished in me, And he was reckoned among the transgressors: for the things concerning me have an end.
38 And they said, Lord, behold, here are two swords. And he said unto them, It is enough.

Granted, there are questions about the meaning of these verses concerning Roman law and prophecy at the time. But the verses are there, nevertheless.



Then doesn't it mean that Christian gun owners rely on non-biblical law to uphold the right to gun-ownership?

Christians are to abide by the laws of the land they are living in. Which means they also fall under the protection of those same laws.



posted on Jun, 1 2012 @ 08:58 AM
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reply to post by borntowatch
 



I wish gun laws were a little more relaxed in Australia, Id have a gun or two.
I could kill somebody with my chain saw or a Hammer or my car or myself on my Kawasaki.
Its a tool, why the beat up comment.
Its not acceptable to use it to hurt anyone, the bible states its not acceptable to say horrible thing to people but we have a tongue.
Silly question skorp, even for you.


Sure one could kill with anything.. thats not the point of my thread. And I'm not even getting into that aspect of guns. You say you'd like to own guns. Thats fine, I guess. But are you basing it on biblical law or the secular law of the land?

But exactly what part of the bible teaches christians to keep a weapon even for self defense... and are there any instances of Jesus or his disciples using weapons for self defense. The only time it happened, Jesus stopped the disciples and ordered him to put the sword back.



posted on Jun, 1 2012 @ 09:21 AM
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reply to post by sk0rpi0n
 



Christians are to abide by the laws of the land they are living in. Which means they also fall under the protection of those same laws.


Interesting. Which verse teaches that? I'll try and make a mental note of that verse for later use.



posted on Jun, 1 2012 @ 09:25 AM
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Originally posted by sk0rpi0n
reply to post by NOTurTypical
 



Comparable to guns in their culture would be swords I suppose. And Jesus told his followers to sell their cloaks and get one if they didn't have one before they ventured out on their missonary journeys.


A sword for what?
Also when did any of the disciples use swords in self defense...apart from the instance when Peter attacked a soldier.... resulting in Jesus asked Peter to put his sword away.

Also nothing is known about disciples using swords to resist anybody... rather they endured persecution without swords.


The Bible also doesn't say if the disciples had bowel movements either. So maybe they never did on their journeying? The roads were places people were ambushed and robbed in that day, that's why Christ told them to sell their cloak and buy a sword if they didn't have one, for personal protection. If you dont want to own a gun you don't have to, it's a free country. Just don't judge other folks who don't see anything wrong with it. You can't trade one apparent sin for another one and hold your head high as some authority on holiness..

that's what the Pharisees always did.


edit on 1-6-2012 by NOTurTypical because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 1 2012 @ 09:33 AM
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Originally posted by sk0rpi0n
reply to post by sk0rpi0n
 



Christians are to abide by the laws of the land they are living in. Which means they also fall under the protection of those same laws.


Interesting. Which verse teaches that? I'll try and make a mental note of that verse for later use.


It's always amazing how the Lord works. I was reading this just this morning in my quiet time. I read James, then 1 Peter. Specifically chapter 2 of 1st Peter, verses 13-17.



posted on Jun, 1 2012 @ 09:34 AM
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reply to post by sk0rpi0n
 


Try reading the Book of Romans



posted on Jun, 1 2012 @ 09:35 AM
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Looking back into the Old Testament, we see that Abraham was a peaceful man, but when his nephew Lot was kidnapped, he armed the men under his authority, and they kicked some serious ass. I see that as our paradigm. God knows that we live in a sinful, violent world. If we do not defend our loved ones, we fail in our duties before God.



posted on Jun, 1 2012 @ 09:46 AM
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Originally posted by sk0rpi0n


Sure one could kill with anything.. thats not the point of my thread. And I'm not even getting into that aspect of guns. You say you'd like to own guns. Thats fine, I guess. But are you basing it on biblical law or the secular law of the land?

But exactly what part of the bible teaches christians to keep a weapon even for self defense... and are there any instances of Jesus or his disciples using weapons for self defense. The only time it happened, Jesus stopped the disciples and ordered him to put the sword back.



I am basing it on hunting rabbits and roos.
Its no different to a knife, as a weapon.

Its not the gun its the operator, the bible teaches about the person not the gun. Jesus is about the person. Guns are insignificant. Have one dont have one. Pure Christianity does not encourage self defence.



posted on Jun, 1 2012 @ 10:01 AM
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I think it's kosher to own firearms for defensive purposes. I thought about getting one but, i don't see much of a reason in it. I probably should considering my neighbors have been robbed recently but they were robbed when no one was home.



posted on Jun, 1 2012 @ 10:07 AM
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reply to post by sk0rpi0n
 


One of Yeshua's/Jesus disciples cut the ear off of
the servant of the high priest,Matthew 26:51



posted on Jun, 1 2012 @ 10:11 AM
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Originally posted by sk0rpi0n
reply to post by sk0rpi0n
 



Christians are to abide by the laws of the land they are living in. Which means they also fall under the protection of those same laws.


Interesting. Which verse teaches that? I'll try and make a mental note of that verse for later use.


See Noturtypical's post in answer to this, and also see Romans chapter 13.



posted on Jun, 1 2012 @ 11:15 AM
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Originally posted by NOTurTypical

It's always amazing how the Lord works. I was reading this just this morning in my quiet time. I read James, then 1 Peter. Specifically chapter 2 of 1st Peter, verses 13-17.


There really is some great fodder for an empire in that there bible...



posted on Jun, 1 2012 @ 11:52 AM
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Originally posted by wearewatchingyouman

Originally posted by NOTurTypical

It's always amazing how the Lord works. I was reading this just this morning in my quiet time. I read James, then 1 Peter. Specifically chapter 2 of 1st Peter, verses 13-17.


There really is some great fodder for an empire in that there bible...


I could have referrenced the OT when there was no such thing as Rome. Shall I? Point being, God sets up kings/kingdoms and tears them down. Rebelling against one's authorities is in essense rebelling against God Himself. Not sure how familiar you are with Babylon and Jerusalem story from tue book of Jeremiah but God used Babylon and their enslavement of the Jews as a judgment against them and the ones who rebelled against that were killed.



posted on Jun, 1 2012 @ 12:22 PM
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Wouldn't we be up to our neck in plow shears by now.



posted on Jun, 1 2012 @ 12:37 PM
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reply to post by NOTurTypical
 


I was half kidding. As you point out there are multiple occurences of this theme. I'm not saying I believe it but I can understand those who tout the conspiracy that the bible is little more than a tool of control for TPTB. Plus this idea that God uses men like a chessboard, maybe Risk is a better analogy, to do his will kind of kills the freewill argument, No?



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