Which would you choose, unconditional love or unconditional freedom

reply to post by arpgme


Good luck with your thread. I will watch how it progresses.

Thank you.

Now for everyone, there was some confusion so let's clarify.

You get to choose love or freedom.

If you choose love, you must love all others and even animals and the planet so you must not eat meat, you must think of others and never yourself.

For freedom, you can do whatever even take the freedom of others.

You are already unconditionally free. Not as yourself though, but as the one.

Unconditional love is the way to realize yourself as the one, and therefore realize your unconditional freedom.

I've had unconditional freedom and didn't much care for living that way... I've given love unconditionally but never received it so if I would actually get what I give... I'm going with love because I'd really like to experience it unconditionally...

reply to post by arpgme


Neither exist so.... neither.

Originally posted by arpgme
With unconditional love, you will get it but you would have to give it.

No eating meat, you would have to care for the animals.
No smoking, you would have to care about your body and the earth
No rudeness, you would have to care about other people's feelings
No revenge or justice, you must always forgive no matter how many times people do evil to you
You must be selfless, always seeking to give to others and unconcerned about receiving


With unconditional freedom, you will get it without rules.

You can take away another's freewill and control them and even make them slaves
You can take and never give if you choose
There will be no punishment for rape, murder, and theft (unless a person choose to take away their freedom)

Which would you choose?

i choose love and freedom.

just not the extremely limited ways you offer it.

*Thinks about it* - " With unconditional love you say I can't continue to have my ciggies and other vices (which are the spices of lifes, a mystery that health nazies struggle with) and without my vices (which are dwindling due to people with control issues) i'm more inclined to be inspired towards a 'free will' homicidal rampage but that would put me in the freedom camp and anything goes there....which includes being with a deluge of morons...but I love freedom....how can I have my cake an eat it too?

Do I have to choose one or the other or can I choose a more middle or alternative approach? If not, then I'll simply just rebel and choose the middle or an alternative anyways.

reply to post by arpgme

your rules for love are too restrictive. i've experienced two-way unconditional love. you can't dictate that kind of thing and it's got nothing to do with not eating meat and forgiving everyone for doing wrong by you.

due to human nature, I believe it's impossible to achieve on a large scale.

it's unconditional forgiveness and kindness. it's complete trust and open honesty. no secrets. it's thinking of the other person first instead of yourself.

it's very rare, and priceless.

reply to post by arpgme

Which would you choose?

Forgive my late posting, I would have been here sooner, but life happens.
Also if anything I bring up has already been posted please forgive me, I don't have time to read them all.

It is now only becoming apparent what is actually transpiring so I have to put it into overdrive, if you will. I will play devils advocate since he is not here to speak for himself. I will also speak for the hordes of humanity and no person in particular. And of course, all of this is hypothetical.

It is really an illusion that we have a choice in this matter, we are, a product of our DNA, our instincts, of our bloodlines. You can not changes the stripes of a tiger any easier than to remove a humans instincts. We are, what we are. Certain secret societies prove this by intending to be a pillar of morality when in fact they have just as many bad eggs as the general public. There is a covert program ongoing presently to heighten awareness of our animalistic tendencies, or the attack of the zombies. All occurring at a key time in humanities enlightenment. A force that wants to show we humans are nothing more than animals and not worthy of any "external" concerns. "Don't reach out to them, they will only bite you".

Yes, we have no choice in our instincts and some people will choose them over listening to that little voice in their head. But when people wake up and realize they do have a choice over those Satan installed switches the world can start to mend itself. We are born pure and clean and though our lives we are tempted by the physical world that is all neatly ordered to keep that truth hidden, we are in fact far more than animals. And even a greater truth that humanity is divided in a "Bigger" way.

What I am trying to share is that when expectations are placed too high and in a short time span failure will most likely be the outcome. There must be a middle ground ( ) where both trains of thought can coexist and learn from each other, and I dare say, unity. Something Satan would be dead set against, and for good reason.

Can these two mindsets live in harmony? You bet! We been doing it for quite some time already, we just don't see it.

Since this is all just hypothetical and not based in any truth or fact, or reality, it has to be left there for one to wonder about.

(Would it help if I said we would wipe our feet before we entered and treat our host with thankfulness and respect?)

Your whole concept of both unconditional love and unconditional freedom is very skewed. Unconditional love has nothing to do with serving or not serving, it transcends duality so all of your dualistic ways of seeing the world go out the window.

reply to post by Returner


Did you read the original post before replying, because there were indeed rules there, so it isn't unconditional.

lol you should have KNOWN no one would follow your hypothetical rules! If you learn anything about your fellow ATSers from your thread it will be that us metaphysical spiritual-types will come like moths to a flame and run all over your thread forgetting that its all a game (while professing to know that 'its all a game').

That being said...I'll play along.

Freedom

They are both one in the same. Unconditional love is not an act, it's an experience. The experience is joyful and peaceful and brings about peace within. Freedom follows. It is not something you to do. Instead, what you do, comes FROM it.

On the other coin, freedom brings about unconditional love. It releases you from the restraints of your own self perception and the bindings of the world's projected perceptions of you. Heals you and reunites you with yourself.

This births unconditional love within your own being, which unleashes compassion for others. The actions that you do at this point is the manifestation of love. Love can not be done, and it can not be a result of any act. The loving acts themselves, come from that love within.

reply to post by arpgme


Dude, is your s/o a vegan and crunchy granola type? This seems more of a personal validation than a philosophical question.
If you really want steak, dump your restrictive s/o. Don't be hesitant, you're relationship is going nowhere if you're questioning your manhood at standing up to her.

And sorry if I've totally misinterpreted your original question. But somehow, I don't think so...good luck anyway.

Originally posted by awakendhybrid
lol you should have KNOWN no one would follow your hypothetical rules! If you learn anything about your fellow ATSers from your thread it will be that us metaphysical spiritual-types will come like moths to a flame and run all over your thread forgetting that its all a game (while professing to know that 'its all a game').

That being said...I'll play along.

Freedom

Haha. Yeah, I should have seen it coming.

uote]Originally posted by QueSeraSera
reply to post by arpgme


Dude, is your s/o a vegan and crunchy granola type? This seems more of a personal validation than a philosophical question..

This is a philosophical question, you have to choose compassion and be compassionante to everything including the LIVES of animals, or choose freedom where anything can happen...


And, no, I am not a vegan, or a vegetarian...

After a long night of migraine, I thought more on the question, it's a difficult one for me because my nature is mirthfully chaotic at times, I like a diversity of candy...so if I had to choose, it would honestly have to be freedom.

reply to post by arpgme


Unconditional freedom... unconditional love I already have

Originally posted by arpgme
reply to post by Returner

 

Did you read the original post before replying, because there were indeed rules there, so it isn't unconditional.

Then its not unconditional, so don't call it so.

reply to post by arpgme


Unconditional Love

Ive been vegetarian for many years and I fall along the other lines as well... so it wouldnt be very challenging for me to pull off at all.


What is freedom worth without love?

reply to post by arpgme


If you had unconditional fredom then you could make everyone love you anyways, so this appeals to my Narcasistic side. Unconditional love appeals more to my spiritual side though.