It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Would Christians be greedy for wanting to get into Heaven so bad?

page: 1
1
<<   2 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on May, 31 2012 @ 11:17 PM
link   
(I am not a Christian, so bear with me as I might mess up Bible scripture. Lines are taken from different Bibles, but they all mean the same.)

Luke 9:24-25

"For whoever desires to save his life will lose it, but whoever will lose his life for my sake, the same will save it.
What good is it for someone to gain the whole world, and yet lose or forfeit their very self?"

I think this means that whoever lives for the purpose of reaching heaven will not get to heaven, but those who live their life teaching what Jesus taught will get into heaven. This doesn't mean just going to Church, or reading the Bible 5 times over, or quoting scripture,every chance you get, or even having a personal relationship with Jesus. I think it means if you teach what he taught -- that is, loving everyone, just for the simple fact that they are human like you -- then you will be saved.

Personally, I think Christians who only do good deeds because in the back of their mind they only really care about getting into heaven are disgusting. Like tyrannical people who convert on their death-bed 'just-in-case'. I am not a Christian, mainly because I do not accept Jesus as the son of God, but I do really enjoy what he taught, and I think that Jesus knew what it really took to get into Heaven. It doesn't take years of Church service. It doesn't take just accepting him. I think it also requires that you help spread his teaching -- not by shoving the Bible in everyone's faces -- by acting out his teaching to everyone around you.

My view on his teachings: I believe he wanted people to reteach his moral teachings, and let people choose for themselves if he was the son of God or not.The poor lead a more honest-with-themselves life, not tempted by the material things on earth. Once you release yourself from the material things, you shall be able to truly know what happiness feels like. Just my thought.

So I've laid out my view. What do you guys think? Would Christians be greedy for wanting to get into Heaven so bad?

Please refrain from just posting Bible verses. Explain your view in a simple way so I can everyone's post.

Here are a couple of things I like about his moral preaching:




"Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself." [Matthew xix. 19.]



"Blessed are ye that hunger now, for ye shall be filled." [Luke vi. 21.]



"Blessed be ye poor, for yours is the kingdom of God." [Luke vi. 20.] But woe unto you that are rich, for ye have received your consolation." [Luke vi. 24.]

edit on 31-5-2012 by mr10k because: (no reason given)




posted on May, 31 2012 @ 11:29 PM
link   
reply to post by mr10k
 


What Your talking about isn't really the case in the theology of a lot of Christians. For example, most Protestant and all evangelical churches would say good deeds don't really help or hurt your chances of getting into heaven. By accepting Jesus as your savior you are automatically going to heaven, period. What your talking about "good deeds" to buy your way in isn't common theology, may somewhat in catholicism.

Besides why do you care why people are doing good deeds if there doing them? Would you not agree 90% of people sit on their couches and don't volunteer or any of that. We should applaud people who do atheist or religious...

Or we're you only looking for responses that fit your viewpoint?



posted on May, 31 2012 @ 11:37 PM
link   
Nah ... real Christians just what everything to be put right.



posted on May, 31 2012 @ 11:43 PM
link   

Originally posted by KnawLick
reply to post by mr10k
 


What Your talking about isn't really the case in the theology of a lot of Christians. For example, most Protestant and all evangelical churches would say good deeds don't really help or hurt your chances of getting into heaven. By accepting Jesus as your savior you are automatically going to heaven, period. What your talking about "good deeds" to buy your way in isn't common theology, may somewhat in catholicism.

Besides why do you care why people are doing good deeds if there doing them? Would you not agree 90% of people sit on their couches and don't volunteer or any of that. We should applaud people who do atheist or religious...

Or we're you only looking for responses that fit your viewpoint?


No, I am welcoming all responses. I just want people's opinion of what they think of the topic.



By accepting Jesus as your savior you are automatically going to heaven, period. What your talking about "good deeds" to buy your way in isn't common theology, may somewhat in catholicism.


Last time I checked, you also had to repent for your sins. This means turn away from your sins, meaning you become a better person. What I'm saying is, If you just accepted Christ and repented just so you can go to heaven, wouldn't that be greedy? IMO, Jesus didn't want people to accept him and repent just so they could go to heaven. He expected that by loving him, they would end up loving everyone around them. He wanted people to accept and repent so that they would treat everyone else better.




Besides why do you care why people are doing good deeds if there doing them? Would you not agree 90% of people sit on their couches and don't volunteer or any of that. We should applaud people who do atheist or religious...


I don't care why people are doing goods. I didn't say "why is everyone acting so nice". 90%? No. More like 10% sit and do not help anyone but themselves. But 90% at least love another person, or they help their fellow man. It may not be a good deed on the scale of ending world hunger or saving the world, but it's a start.

I agree. We should applaud good deeds, regardless. Which is my main point. Are Christians greedy if they only do good deeds because they want to get into heaven?

It's like if I only returned your wallet because I thought you'd let me have a reward.



posted on May, 31 2012 @ 11:43 PM
link   
reply to post by mr10k
 


you "think" you know yet didn't bother to read 9:22 and 9:23 which defines 9:24

funny how that works...



posted on May, 31 2012 @ 11:50 PM
link   

Originally posted by anoncoholic
reply to post by mr10k
 


you "think" you know yet didn't bother to read 9:22 and 9:23 which defines 9:24

funny how that works...



When did I say 'I know'? I don't know anything about the book. No one does. It's what you interpret it as, which is why I always used 'I think' when talking about it or parts of it.

Ahem



And he said, “The Son of Man must suffer many things and be rejected by the elders, the chief priests and the teachers of the law, and he must be killed and on the third day be raised to life.” 23 Then he said to them all: “Whoever wants to be my disciple must deny themselves and take up their cross daily and follow me.


That isn't relevant to anything I'm talking about, and doesn't affect 9:24 in the least. 9:24 is a metaphor for 9:23, so that whole verse isn't needed. I think I should include 9:25 though. It adds on to 9:24.



What good is it for someone to gain the whole world, and yet lose or forfeit their very self?



posted on May, 31 2012 @ 11:50 PM
link   
Is there a reason why, people think, the B.I.B.L.E. is a book about heaven and hell? Heaven and hell are rarely talked about. What IS talked about, is God's people, fighting a corrupt devil worshipping system.

As far as "sins" go...."he who forgives much, is FORGIVEN MUCH!"

Please, do yourselves a favor...and start learning some of God's principles. Store up treasures in heaven, with your works on earth. Give, forgive, and love. It's as easy as 1, 2, 3!

Next topic!!!



posted on May, 31 2012 @ 11:55 PM
link   
reply to post by mr10k
 


I mean we are getting into fine details of the bible here but lets give a whirl. You got to remember Jesus came as the reformer for Judaism not as the founder of Christianity. So if you read the bible Jesus does give many teachings and ways to better one self, to be followed by all. But on the issue of heaven, if you read the bible, Jesus makes it plain and simple: gentiles (all non-jews) go to heaven simple by accepting him as your savior. This was the whole point of Jesus, lol its pretty obvious most people don't like the Jews, so it was a way for gentiles to still get into heaven.

"He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life; and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him."
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life."
"For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. "

On the other point. I'm not trying to be rude I just don't see the point... Kids volunteer to get brownie points for college, etc. I don't see any volunteering as self-serving or greedy. I assure you a homeless person in a shelter isn't question the motives of the person serving them the mean the desperately need.



posted on May, 31 2012 @ 11:55 PM
link   

Originally posted by nuttin4nothin
Is there a reason why, people think, the B.I.B.L.E. is a book about heaven and hell? Heaven and hell are rarely talked about. What IS talked about, is God's people, fighting a corrupt devil worshipping system.

As far as "sins" go...."he who forgives much, is FORGIVEN MUCH!"

Please, do yourselves a favor...and start learning some of God's principles. Store up treasures in heaven, with your works on earth. Give, forgive, and love. It's as easy as 1, 2, 3!

Next topic!!!


Well, I can't tell who you're replying to, as no one said anything about that. I was not implying the Bible is a book about Heaven and Hell, just that one of the key points it talks about is that one needs to accept Christ and repent to be saved, which I inquire, are those who repent and accept that only do it to get into heaven greedy?

I agree about the principles part. Jesus, actually. I think he taught a good wealth of things, and retaught things that are also present in other religions.




Store up treasures in heaven, with your works on earth. Give, forgive, and love.


Couldn't have said it better myself!



posted on Jun, 1 2012 @ 12:01 AM
link   

Originally posted by KnawLick
reply to post by mr10k
 


I mean we are getting into fine details of the bible here but lets give a whirl. You got to remember Jesus came as the reformer for Judaism not as the founder of Christianity. So if you read the bible Jesus does give many teachings and ways to better one self, to be followed by all. But on the issue of heaven, if you read the bible, Jesus makes it plain and simple: gentiles (all non-jews) go to heaven simple by accepting him as your savior. This was the whole point of Jesus, lol its pretty obvious most people don't like the Jews, so it was a way for gentiles to still get into heaven.

"He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life; and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him."
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life."
"For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. "

On the other point. I'm not trying to be rude I just don't see the point... Kids volunteer to get brownie points for college, etc. I don't see any volunteering as self-serving or greedy. I assure you a homeless person in a shelter isn't question the motives of the person serving them the mean the desperately need.


Yeah, I agree. It's just hard to see it that way though, as a religious system just so non-Jews could be 'saved'.

I just think that it's acceptance + good deeds, not just good deeds, or just acceptance. If it really is like that, then what an awful religion. An entire system created just so people don't have to worry about burning in an eternal flame, spoken of by another religion? That is awful.



posted on Jun, 1 2012 @ 04:02 AM
link   

Originally posted by mr10k

Personally, I think Christians who only do good deeds because in the back of their mind they only really care about getting into heaven are disgusting.


That's basically the doctrine of saved by faith. You could say it's like the main doctrine of Christianity. In other words, what you just said Christianity should be, is exactly what it is. You're saved by Jesus, then you spread the word and emulate Christ. Which is just another way of spreading the word.
edit on 1-6-2012 by tinfoilman because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 1 2012 @ 06:38 AM
link   
reply to post by mr10k
 


Greedy?? Lol, that's where Christ is. We should want to be there where our Lord and Savior is.



posted on Jun, 1 2012 @ 06:41 AM
link   

Originally posted by tinfoilman

Originally posted by mr10k

Personally, I think Christians who only do good deeds because in the back of their mind they only really care about getting into heaven are disgusting.


That's basically the doctrine of saved by faith. You could say it's like the main doctrine of Christianity. In other words, what you just said Christianity should be, is exactly what it is. You're saved by Jesus, then you spread the word and emulate Christ. Which is just another way of spreading the word.
edit on 1-6-2012 by tinfoilman because: (no reason given)


Thats not at all the doctrine of "saved by faith".. people trying to earn heaven by doing works are not believers in saved by grace through faith, they would be trying to earn their salvation by works.



posted on Jun, 1 2012 @ 02:05 PM
link   

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by mr10k
 


Greedy?? Lol, that's where Christ is. We should want to be there where our Lord and Savior is.


Yes, I think it's greedy. Like I said in my analogy:

It's like returning your lost wallet only because I thought you would give me a reward. I should be returning because it's the right thing to do, not because I think I'll get a reward.

If a Christian only does good things because he/she is a Christian that is sad. They should do nice things because they are a person, not what religion they are.



posted on Jun, 1 2012 @ 02:29 PM
link   

Originally posted by mr10k

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by mr10k
 


Greedy?? Lol, that's where Christ is. We should want to be there where our Lord and Savior is.


Yes, I think it's greedy. Like I said in my analogy:

It's like returning your lost wallet only because I thought you would give me a reward. I should be returning because it's the right thing to do, not because I think I'll get a reward.

If a Christian only does good things because he/she is a Christian that is sad. They should do nice things because they are a person, not what religion they are.


Do you want to talk about doing good works or going to heaven? I thought your thread was about why we would want to go to heaven and if that was greedy or not? Good works don't get you to heaven. Or another way to put it, doing good works doesnt save you, good works is what saved people do. (Ephesians 2:8-10)



posted on Jun, 1 2012 @ 03:40 PM
link   

Originally posted by mr10k


Luke 9:24-25

I think this means that whoever lives for the purpose of reaching heaven will not get to heaven, but those who live their life teaching what Jesus taught will get into heaven.


Like another post stated, your interpretation is not taking into account the surrounding scripture:

"23Then he said to them all: “If anyone would come after me, he must deny himself and take up his cross daily and follow me. 24For whoever wants to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for me will save it. 25What good is it for a man to gain the whole world, and yet lose or forfeit his very self? 26If anyone is ashamed of me and my words, the Son of Man will be ashamed of him when he comes in his glory and in the glory of the Father and of the holy angels. 27I tell you the truth, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the kingdom of God.”

My summary:
If you are not willing to deny yourself and take up your own cross, then you will be choosing to save your life physically yet lose it eternally.
If you are willing to deny yourself and take up your cross, then you will be choosing to lose your life (live for God not self) but SAVE IT eternally.



So I've laid out my view. What do you guys think? Would Christians be greedy for wanting to get into Heaven so bad?


Jesus has asked us to give up our selves and live for God to do God's Will whilst here on Earth, and the reward is to be given as eternal life with Him. Is that greed? No, that is recognising that God loved me so much that Jesus died so that I had that salvation available to even consider. Not many will attain the faith of Jesus to walk with God as Noah, Enoch, Jacob, Isaac and Abraham showed. Jesus gave everything to do Our Father's will, including laying down His life.

"This is how we know what love is: Jesus Christ laid down his life for us. And we ought to lay down our lives for our brothers." 1 John 3:16

Yes, God's will is that I live now to do His Will, not my own, and that is laying my life down and living to do His work through Christ within me. Yes, that may even mean that I am to be killed for His name and the sake of my brothers and sister, but I leave that up to Him. Are there many Christians today who do not realise that this is the level of Faith required? Yes. But they do not care to seek the truth of the matter. I pray that as the gospel is preached that they come to know the truth.


edit on 31-5-2012 by mr10k because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 1 2012 @ 04:03 PM
link   

Originally posted by mr10k

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by mr10k
 


Greedy?? Lol, that's where Christ is. We should want to be there where our Lord and Savior is.


Yes, I think it's greedy. Like I said in my analogy:

It's like returning your lost wallet only because I thought you would give me a reward. I should be returning because it's the right thing to do, not because I think I'll get a reward.

If a Christian only does good things because he/she is a Christian that is sad. They should do nice things because they are a person, not what religion they are.


A person with the moral Thou Shalt Not Steal would return the wallet because it would be stealing if they didn't. That person doesn't do it to get a reward, they do it because they are obedient to that commandment. It becomes the "right" thing to do. God offers salvation to those that are obedient to His commands and to those who remain faithful to Jesus. God set the expectation - DO THIS AND YOU WILL LIVE. Greed is a "selfish desire for something" so yes, I desire to save my family and my eternal life because I can see how precious it is and the price that was paid by Jesus. I've realised that my physical life is but a drop in the ocean of a bucket called eternity and that is what God offers to those who seek Him earnestly. Most will not choose to lay down their earthly life in exchange for that promise. I pray always that He's rooting for me to overcome. What joy!



posted on Jun, 1 2012 @ 04:13 PM
link   
Heaven sounds great, and I don't blame anybody for wanting to go there when they die. The thing that bugs me more is that a lot of Christians just assume that they're automatically entitled to go there for "accepting Jesus into their lives," and "being forgiven," regardless of their past horrible behavior. They believe they've drawn a Get Out of Hell Free card, and have the Bible verses to prove it.

That to me seems like the worst kind of annoying, lazy hubris, and downright sinful self-absorption, and certainly deserves punishment of at least a relatively short time in burning fires of Hell. Maybe 1,000 years or so.



posted on Jun, 1 2012 @ 04:27 PM
link   
reply to post by Blue Shift
 


Dont get mad at us for believing Christ, afterall we are called Christians for a reason. Salvation is a free gift, rewards for faithful service take faithful service. The reason why salvation is based on unmerited grace is because Christ aline gets the praise, honor, and glory for redeeming us.



posted on Jun, 1 2012 @ 04:28 PM
link   

Originally posted by NOTurTypical

Originally posted by tinfoilman

Originally posted by mr10k

Personally, I think Christians who only do good deeds because in the back of their mind they only really care about getting into heaven are disgusting.


That's basically the doctrine of saved by faith. You could say it's like the main doctrine of Christianity. In other words, what you just said Christianity should be, is exactly what it is. You're saved by Jesus, then you spread the word and emulate Christ. Which is just another way of spreading the word.
edit on 1-6-2012 by tinfoilman because: (no reason given)


Thats not at all the doctrine of "saved by faith".. people trying to earn heaven by doing works are not believers in saved by grace through faith, they would be trying to earn their salvation by works.


Yeah what you said lol. I quoted OP where they say trying to get into Heaven by doing good works is wrong. And I was saying, yes that's correct, that's wrong. Works aren't gonna do it.
edit on 1-6-2012 by tinfoilman because: (no reason given)



new topics

top topics



 
1
<<   2 >>

log in

join