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Your opinions on the Taurus PT 709 Slim

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posted on May, 31 2012 @ 11:00 PM
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Hello all, a week ago I purchased my first gun. It took me some time to make the decision,... price (this one was $350), maker, ect... I read some reviews on the Taurus and there were alot of good reviews, although there were some that were pretty bad. After awhile, I decided im going to buy it. Before going to the range, I made sure to clean it as best I could. It came with a heck of alot of grease inside (as every review said it would).

Today was my first day at the range. I bought 2 cases (50 rounds each) of Remington 9mm Luger. I first set the target to 25 ft, but later backed it up to 15 ft. Well, I am pretty new to shooting, so my accuracy was pretty bad at both ranges (25 ft was the least accurate). It took me awhile but I slowly began getting better, but im still pretty inaccurate. The recoil seems to be a bit more for a 9mm, but it is a pretty small gun.

At about round 50, I got my first "stovepipe" (its also called other names but that's the one I use). Cleared it no problem, but then a few round later, I got my first dreaded double feed. That made me pretty mad. I tried pressing the magazine release button a few times but it wouldnt drop out, so I had to slip my fingernails inbetween the magazine on the bottom and rip it out. A few more rounds after that I decided to call it a day. I'll be back at the range next week hopefully.

Also, while loading my magazine with rounds, the magazine really really fights me after the first couple rounds. (It holds 7). First round goes in no problem, 2nd is alright but a bit tougher, 3rd is fairly tough, then any after that is a real fight. Ive read that I should load the mag up full, and let it sit for a day, week, 2 weeks or more, to help break in the spring toughness. Have any of yall done that, and how long would you reccomend letting it sit?




posted on May, 31 2012 @ 11:10 PM
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reply to post by buni11687
 


The reason you are having problems hitting anything is you bought a subcompact frame gun as your first pistol. If its your first gun I assume you don't conceal carry, therefore I'd suggest making the next one a full-size. Like a glock 17 or something til your more comfortable. Don't underestimate the difference in accuracy between a subcompact and full-size pistol.

That being said I would invest in some after market sights to maybe maximize what your doing with the Taurus. I like the tru-glo fiber optic tfo personally. Try cheaperthandirt.com



posted on May, 31 2012 @ 11:17 PM
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reply to post by KnawLick
 


Thanks for the reply. I was looking at full size but eventually decided on the Taurus because of the price difference. Almost every review said the gun will be firing low to the left, and I noticed that after awhile (Around round 20 was when I finally began to get a little accurate, but still not too good). The gun came with keys that adjust the rear sights, but I wont be able to be at the range until about another week from now. Im definantly going to be adjusting them next time Im there.

ETA - As for when I finally get a full size pistol, im problably going to go for a glock, since they seem very similar to this Taurus, but that's still a long time from now
edit on 31-5-2012 by buni11687 because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 31 2012 @ 11:29 PM
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Never tried it myself... although im a full-size kinda guy... i cant stand those pea shooters haha...

Taurus from my experience has quality guns, I own the PT 1911, which I picked up used for 400$ and it performs just like my step dads S&W 1911... Plus Taurus offers lifetime warranty for any owner... cant beat that

EDIT: If your looking for a 9mm that doesnt jam/double feed... may I recommend the Beretta 92F or FS... Taurus also makes the PT92 model of the Beretta 92 for a bit cheaper, though I have never tried it, but have a Beretta, and I love it... feels so good in my hands, plus the open-top slide design almost eliminates all stovepipes
edit on 31-5-2012 by morder1 because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 31 2012 @ 11:34 PM
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reply to post by buni11687
 
I have a Bersa Thunder, sounds like your clips need breaking in, but you shouldn't be having these problems. Clean it all real well, see if the problem continues.

Nice for a C&C though.



posted on May, 31 2012 @ 11:35 PM
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reply to post by buni11687
 


Bought a Taurus as my first pistol too. They are pretty nice never had an issue. Your gonna have a hard time adjusting the sights yourself if your not to experienced. I'd suggest taking it to your local gun store and having them do it. Probably only be like $30.

On purchasing guns remember. They last forever, when your buying one its for life. Better to save for an extra month or two and get the best.



posted on May, 31 2012 @ 11:38 PM
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reply to post by buni11687
 


Go for the Glock. Over 3k rounds, not a single issue and I think I've cleaned it twice. I've got a lot of handguns, have shot many, Glock and Sig are the way to go. My 226 Combat has had a few stovepipes when it got dirty. No biggie though.

Not a Taurus fan. I know they're getting better, but I believe they are cheap for a reason.

You'll get better with practice. Though that short sight radius isn't going to help with accuracy.

I leave my G17 mag loaded all the time. It's my bedside gun. Never an issue, but again it's a Glock. Don't know Taurus mags.

Do have to give Taurus some props on those grips though. I like. My buddy carries one and he actually loves his. Not a bad first gun OP, but maybe trade it for a used full size to start.
edit on 31-5-2012 by Domo1 because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 31 2012 @ 11:41 PM
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After reading some more into my magazine fighting me stuff, I think im going to fully load it and let it sit until next time I go to the range (about 7 days, maybe more maybe less). If I remember, ill post my experience afterwards.

reply to post by KnawLick
 





Better to save for an extra month or two and get the best.


Im problably going to buy a rifle for my next gun, but I may end up getting another pistol. If I do decide on a pistol for my next purchase, im going to up my price range to around $500



posted on Jun, 1 2012 @ 03:58 PM
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try several diffrent brands of ammo, some may work better than others, and most guns "prefer" a certain brand over others. enjoy your new purchase safely.



posted on Jun, 1 2012 @ 04:57 PM
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I checked out the Taurus when looking for slim carry gun for Summer and ended up with a Kahr CW9 (which has a long break in period 200rounds) I took care of that in one range session. It has certainly improved with every trip to the range since.

Give it some time to break in and some more rounds down range and pay attention as to what brand and type of ammo you are using. Experiment with different brands and see what happens. My Kahr is a little finicky with certain brands and weights of Hollow Points due to the tight tolerances of a compact pistol. Now, I stick with Speer Gold Dot for my defense rounds.
edit on 1-6-2012 by jibeho because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 1 2012 @ 06:01 PM
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Couple of things. The smaller and lighter the handgun the less accurate in general. Although when shot by a expert the difference in accuracy is not there. But the smaller and lighter the gun the bigger the initial learning curve to get accurate with it.

Also, being new at shooting there will be some anxiety which causes little things to happen that are messing up your aim. If you tell me what the shot groupings are looking like I may be able to tell you what you are doing wrong.

The magazine/clip being hard to load. Almost all brand new magazines are like that. the spring just is real stiff and needs breaking in. I'm a real strong guy and I even struggle getting rounds 8-10 in. There are loading tools that really, really save you a bunch of pain. Cheap too.

The advice to just load a magazine and keep it like that for a few weeks will work just fine. But keep in mind that the softer the spring gets the more issues it will have pushing the next round up. So for dire life and death home defense situations you may want to keep a half loaded magazine that you know will not misfeed when TSHTF

Other than that. Welcome to the club new gun owner. You are actually one of the silent majority. And a good example that 99% of gun owners are normal friendly people.

Also the previous poster is right. Often you get what you pay for with handguns. the more expensive (to a point) the higher quality. Doesn't mean less issues. expensive guns can sometimes act finicky. but it does make an big difference.

Poster who just bought the Kahr. Good choice. sweet lineup of compacts they got.

as for me. I too own a handgun, but I'm more into long gun sorta stuff and stick to the rifles which are more my joy.

PS about the accuracy thing. pistols are some of the hardest firearms in my opinion to get really accurate at shooting. the shorter the barrel the more control the operator needs to have regarding their hands and stance.

Also stance makes a huge difference. try not to keep your back straight, bow it a little and roll the shoulders slightly forward and keep your elbows in, similar to a boxer, don't chicken wing it (hard to explain easy to show) and don't lower your head to align the sights. bring the sights up to your eye level, not the other way around. Also aim your lead foot at what you are trying to shoot. ie if you are standing left foot forward make sure your left foot is aligned with the target (pointing at it) the rear foot can be at 45 degrees or whatever is comfortable.

Also experiment with your grip. that makes a huge difference. watch how the competition shooters cradle the gun in between both palms with both thumbs parallel (ish) to each other on the left side of the slide, thumb aimed length wise as much as possible down the gun. makes a huge difference in control and recoil mitigation.

Your going to find that you'll really enjoy shooting over time.
edit on 1-6-2012 by BASSPLYR because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 1 2012 @ 11:54 PM
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reply to post by BASSPLYR
 





Also, being new at shooting there will be some anxiety which causes little things to happen that are messing up your aim. If you tell me what the shot groupings are looking like I may be able to tell you what you are doing wrong.


I can tell I sometimes end up moving a tiny bit once the trigger is about to be pulled. (I also did have some anxiety when starting, it was my first time) My trigger is pretty much the same as a glock. I have to pull both triggers for it to fire. After I get through the first trigger pull, and when I feel the force of the 2nd trigger going into action, that's usually when I move a tad. (the second trigger pull is alot shorter than the 1st) Im still working on that, but next time Im at the range, I'll try to see how I progress throught that session.

As for my shot groupings, well....I was kind of all over the place on the target up until about 20-25 rounds. After that, I began getting a little more control, but I kept hitting low. A little to the left, but mostly lower than what I was aiming for. I did hit center, but only 4 times. Plus I had a few fliers to.




There are loading tools that really, really save you a bunch of pain. Cheap too


I read a bit about the Maglula. It seems it will save me alot of time, plus my fingers will like me more.The closest place to me that has it, Academy Sports, sells it for only $30. I think it will problably be a good investment for me.



posted on Jun, 5 2012 @ 08:10 AM
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You have received some decent advice. Here is my two cent.

Clean the gun again. Clean it and then wipe it dry with a "gun rag." After that lube it exactly as the manual instructs.

Leaving a magazine loaded will help loosen it up. However, not as dramatically as some believe. Cycling does more to loosen the spring than leaving it sitting. So, get a few "snap caps" and load your magazine. Then manually cycle and "dry fire" it a few dozen times. Not only will the magazine loosen up, but everything else will be breaking in.

Check your grip. Some pistols are picky about the grip. A weak or awkward grip can cause some guns to malfunction. The malfunction may be you.

If you do all of those things and still experience problems, Taurus has a lifetime waranty.



posted on Jun, 5 2012 @ 12:28 PM
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Forgot about snap caps! good call. get some of those too. plus here's a good trick to getting better control over your trigger finger.

Load the Taurus with a snap cap. Place an empty shell casing on top of the slide and now practice pulling the trigger smoothly so that the shell doesn't fall off. Will make sure you aren't jerking the trigger.



posted on Jun, 5 2012 @ 01:12 PM
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Lots of good advice here. I just want to throw out a few things to keep in mind.

Take a class and then take another class. I'm not talking about a high speed Front Sight, EAG, or Magpul kind of class. Just a few simple NRA handgun classes. Gain some consistency in your shooting. If you can get a consistent group, whether it's low left or whatever, you are getting the hang of it.

Once you get a consistent shooting style down then you might, and I stress might, want to consider altering your firearm. It is your first gun so I am not going to be negative but spending more money on your Taurus is like putting lipstick on a pig. It's still a pig, thought I wouldn't describe any sub-compact as a pig. Putting better sights on it could help, but how much are you willing to invest on a sub-compact CCW style firearm? Kahr's have great reputations in the sub-compact CCW world. If your going to carry this for self defense or Concealed Carry you want to make sure it will fire every time the first time. There are no "can you wait one second while I clear this malfunction before I shoot you sir?" If you are going to carry it concealed or on a daily basis I would straight up trade it in for a Kahr or maybe something a little bigger like Glock 19, small but a gun fighter. I am a huge plastic gun fan. I have +K's of rounds down range with a Glock 17 and a M&P 9. Though I admit I salivate when I see someone at the range with a Kimber, Knighthawk, or a sweet custom 1911. I just personally beat on firearms to hard to justify a 1911 and the level of care it take to maintain one at 100% effectiveness.

Training really is everything. If you do go CCW, please take a few more classes. Not for your benefit but for everyone else. You take a lot of inherent responsibility while carrying a concealed weapon. If you have to draw that weapon in a dangerous situation, you become responsible for everyone's safety around you.

Again, train then take a class and train some more and take another class before you go Whiz-bang on your Taurus. Only through effective training will you learn what works for you and you alone.
edit on 5-6-2012 by NoRemorse762 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 5 2012 @ 02:59 PM
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Yeah don't spend money upgrading the taurus. Maybe get a trigger job, but thats it.

The previous poster is correct. When you are ready trade it in, getting a better gun. Besides as you get better at shooting you will want to get a better gun that won't be as limiting.

Feel you there on the custom Kimber 45's very manageable action on them. Plus they just feel right in your hands. Even though it's a 1911 it didn't feel like one when shooting. felt like butter.



posted on Jun, 7 2012 @ 04:45 PM
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Thanks again for all the advice. Im going to the range later today and hopefully I'll do better this time.



posted on Jun, 8 2012 @ 12:42 AM
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Well today seemed alot better than last week on the range. I put 100 rounds through it this time. It's still only my second time ever going to the range (and actually shooting a real gun), but I took a picture of my 3 targets.



Left to right - 1) First 35 rounds, 2) 30 rounds, 3) Last 35 rounds

I had a few "fliers" on each one (last one had a flier on the bottom right). Im still very new, but it seems that I have a general area hit in each one, down and to the left. As I previously said, most reviews I read said the firearm will fire low left, so I think im getting my general aiming down, although i have a long way to go.

As for the ammunition I used today, I used the Federal American Eagle 9mm for the first 50 rounds, and Winchester SXZ for the last 50 rounds. Last week, I only used Remington UMC 9mm.

Malfunctions - I had a failure to extract after about 35 rounds. This wasnt a "stovepipe", but the after the round was fired, it stayed completely in the chamber and the next round was already trying to come up. This happen again around round 70. I tried the tap-rack-bang to see if that would work, but nope, I had to resort to the double feed method of clearing these. *For my first time last week, I had a stovepipe and a double feed, previously mentioned in the thread*'

Well...that's pretty much my review for today. I'll be going back next week, hopefully with better accuracy!


ETA - Forgot to mention how far away these were...all 3 were at 15 feet
edit on 8-6-2012 by buni11687 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 8 2012 @ 07:19 AM
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Good stuff. Your groups look pretty good for a newbie(no disrespect intended). To get a real good gauge on your groups try and use a fresh target and put five or so rounds on the targets and then measure the distance between the two farthest hits. That will be your grouping like a 4 inch group at 15 feet. Do this several times to see if you can increase your grouping, or should I say decrease the size of the group. This is a good way to track how your consistency is doing. Replicating results is the path to consistency and is a good way to gauge improvement. Your groups may also change depending on the ammo you use.

Also keep track of what kind of ammo you are using. Brand, grain, and type of ammo. Especially when you encounter a malfunction, that way you will know what kind of ammo your gun likes and dislikes. You might see that it likes American Eagle 115 gr FMJ but not American Eagle 147 gr FMJ. For what ever reason weapons can be like women sometimes, "I don't know honey, the curtains both look brown to me." When to her the curtains are clearly light brown and beige. Ya feel me, sometimes there is no rime or reason to why some ammo shoots and some doesn't. Just keep track of it so you don't load your gun with some no-go's when your life depends on it.

Also, take a class and train then take another class and train some more. If you keep shooting without instruction you may develop some bad habits/training scars that are hard to unlearn. Other than that keep throwing that lead down range.



posted on Jun, 14 2012 @ 08:30 PM
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reply to post by NoRemorse762
 


Thanks. I just got back from the range again (3rd time), and I think this was my best trip yet. Here's my 2 targets, 50 rounds each. (Both at 13 feet)

First 50



Second 50



I used American Eagle 115 gr for all 100 rounds. To me it seems I did better with the second 50. The first 50 hit the center a few times. but some rounds were way off. The 2nd 50 didnt really hit the center as much, but they seem more grouped.

Ive also got alot better handling the recoil. Also, there were no jams this time. I guess the previous double feeds and failure to extracts were just part of the breaking in period.






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