The Jesus Similarities

I have recently done an independent study on historical figures similar to Jesus, that also predate Jesus. I will go briefly into detail on the similarities.

1. Krishna: Krishna was born without sexual union, through mental transmission. Krishna and Jesus were of royal decent. Both selected disciples to spread their teachings. Both performed miracles, casting out demons, making the blind see again, and healing disease. Both were visited by wise men and shepherds. Both were crucified and were resurrected.
2. Zoroaster: Both baptized in a river. Both born of a virgin. Both cast out demons and returned sight to the blind man. Both follower's expect a second coming. Both were tempted in the wilderness. Both taught about heaven and hell.
3. Dionysus: Born of a virgin on December 25th. Was placed in a manger. performed miracles. Turned water into wine. Rose from the dead. He was called “King of Kings” and “God of Gods.” He was considered the “Only Begotten Son,” Savior,” “Redeemer,” “Sin Bearer,” Anointed One,” and the “Alpha and Omega.”
4. Attis: Attis was born on December 25th of a virgin. He was slain for the salvation of mankind. His body was eaten as bread by his worshipers. Crucified on a tree. Rose after three days. Descended to the underworld.
5. Horus: Only Begotten son of god, born of a virgin. Received a death threat as an infant. Placed in a manger. No accounts of their life between ages 12 and 30. Baptized at age 30, and the baptizer was beheaded. Walked on water, cast out demons, healed the sick, restored sight to the blind. Was crucifed, descended into Hell; resurrected after three days. Oh yeah, and he resurrected his friend, whose name translates to Lazarus.

Now, taking into account all of this information, how is it that Jesus's story is any more true than the others. The stories are strikingly similar, especially the stories of Horus and Krishna. It seems as if The story of Jesus, may in fact be a compilation of all of these stories. Doesn't it seem likely that the four writer's of the gospels had heard these stories and used them and the prophecies in the old testament to create this Jesus character?
To the Christians of ATS:
What makes Jesus any more real than these other people?
What makes your holy book anymore true than the many other holy books out there?
What makes your god any more real than the thousands of other gods?
Which seems more plausible: God created many men, or man created many gods?
At what point does this all break down and just become a bunch of made up stories decided to implement fear and control people? At this point, if you are a logical, rational thinker, you should be doubting (even the slightest bit) your beliefs. How is it that the events in the bible are only 4,000 years old, but humans have been around for at least 100,000 years? How is it that the central character in the bible, is very similar to other people who predated his existence? I think the answer to those two questions is quite simple:
It's all make believe. Even though the question of god can not be answered, we can at least say that more than likely, theism is incorrect. You may still choose to be a deist, but with so many religions and beliefs out there, I don't see how anyone can maintain a position of theism. I myself was Christian, at least until I reached the age of reason. To say that you are theist, you claim to know god as a personal god, and your theism is the right one over everyone else who has a different theism. You place your faith in a book with so many inconsistencies and paradoxes, the authors of the book couldn't even agree. You place your faith in Jesus, someone who sounds so similar to the 5 previously mentioned characters. Everyone can't be right, and considering these other characters predated Jesus, your theism is probably wrong. At this point there is not much of a case for Jesus, or at least in my opinion. So from here, I will leave it to the people of ATS.
I would like to ask any Christian to answer the questions I have presented. Let us debate intelligently and with respect for each others opinions (at least to some degree).. I ask that you take in all of the data provided with an open mind. Thank you for your time..

I would like to add one last thing:
As an atheist, it is not my job to prove or disprove god, as it simply cannot be done.
But, as a theist, it is your job to show why your theism is correct.

I will admit, I am not an atheist myself, and we may disagree with certain things, but... Christianity as we know it is essentially paganism with Jesus thrown in there. The Catholic church is extremely corrupt and has adopted pagan belief and thrown Jesus in the equation.

I will admit, I am not an atheist myself, and we may disagree with certain things, but... Christianity as we know it is essentially paganism with Jesus thrown in there. The Catholic church is extremely corrupt and has adopted pagan belief and thrown Jesus in the equation.

I will admit, I am not an atheist myself, and we may disagree with certain things, but... Christianity as we know it is essentially paganism with Jesus thrown in there. The Catholic church is extremely corrupt and has adopted pagan belief and thrown Jesus in the equation.

I will admit, I am not an atheist myself, and we may disagree with certain things, but... Christianity as we know it is essentially paganism with Jesus thrown in there. The Catholic church is extremely corrupt and has adopted pagan belief and thrown Jesus in the equation.

I am new here... Why the hell did it post four times? :| I apologize for that. It was not intentional.

im all for people speaking out against Christianity but most the information you posted is just wrong and bull#. Jesus, Buddha, Krishna- you can probably find people that mirror their lives for millions of years back. stories in the collective consciousness that become reality time and time again

reply to post by biggmoneyme


In what way is my information wrong? I showed how other figures are similar to Jesus.. These similarities aren't very general either, they are mostly major details that Christians observe; For example, the virgin birth, being crucified, and resurrection.

reply to post by TheCelestialHuman


Meh, what's the point. We all believe, for the most part, what we wanna believe. Right? I usually just accept people for who they are...beliefs, politics and all.

reply to post by TheCelestialHuman


Another fantasy "Look, it is like Jesus thread" because I read the BS on an atheist website.

Dionysus don't sound like Jesus? Really?

According to one myth, Dionysus is the son of the god Zeus and the mortal woman, Semele (daughter of Cadmus of Thebes). Semele is killed by Zeus' lightning bolts while Dionysus is still in her womb. Dionysus is rescued and undergoes a second birth from Zeus after developing in his thigh. Zeus then gives the infant to some nymphs to be raised. In another version, one with more explicit religious overtones, Dionysus, also referred to as Zagreus in this account, is the son of Zeus and Persephone, Queen of the Underworld. Hera gets the Titans to lure the infant with toys, and then they rip him to shreds eating everything but Zagreus' heart, which is saved by either Athena, Rhea, or Demeter. Zeus remakes his son from the heart and implants him in Semele who bears a new Dionysus Zagreus. Hence, as in the earlier account, Dionysus is called "twice born." The latter account formed a part of the Orphic religion's religious mythology.

I don't have time to frag each one but most of this "similarity myths" are from recent "interpretations" of freeking pictures on walls or versions of plays.

Attis?

A god of growth and fertility in Asia Minor, also venerated in Greece. His service remained more Asian than Greek, however, and was connected to that of Cybele. Because of his manifestations of intense sadness and ecstatic joy, his service resembles that of Adonis. Attis was thought to be beloved by Cybele and when he refused her love, in her rage she unmanned him. His followers sometimes did the same. Attis is portrayed on coins from the Roman era and on tombstones. He is represented as a young man in tight-fitting clothes and a Phrygian headdress and shepherds staff.

reply to post by TheCelestialHuman

You may not have heard of this before, but I know of an easy way for you to make $1000. Here's the link:Jesus-Myth Challenge Here's a quick summary of the challenge:

Below, I give seven common lists that I see Christ-mythers give. They say that these are things that pre-Christian deities were credited with doing that influenced the Jesus story. I will give $1000 to the first person who can provide evidence of any one of these lists being valid. Yes, just one. It must be evidence which shows that the deity was believed, prior to the writing of the Gospels, to have done these things. Please contact me (through the link above) if you have the evidence.

All I'm asking of you is that you go to the site, check the lists and tell us if you're going to take the challenge. OK?

reply to post by infolurker

So your just going to come in here and deny all these similarities? did you even read the OP? The similarities are so close to Jesus' story that it almost looks like it has to be plagiarism.. Don't forget, all the previously mentioned people predated Jesus.

reply to post by TheCelestialHuman


The "people" predated Jesus. The stories of being similar are bogus.

reply to post by charles1952

He's asking for impossible evidence, there isn't even that much evidence to support the bible.. I have about as much evidence to support my claims, as anyone else does to support the bible. It is all based off of writings from thousands of years ago. So before you ask me for all kinds of evidence, how about a little to help your case out.

Galileo Galilei:

Brought to trial for heresy. At his trial he swore he held great faith in his religion even though some of his ideas were contrary to those religious beliefs. Like Jesus he was clever in his answers, and like Jesus he was still found guilty of heresy.

It is said that when Galileo recanted his advocacy of a heliocentric universe he muttered under his breath: "Yet it still moves." There is no verification of this and the legend only started many years after Galileo's death. That trial and his legendary muttering are a part of Galileo's mythology. Mythology are tales told, generally to explain the mystery's of life, or to inspire humanity to heroism. The mythic structure of Jesus is also similar to Heracles, or Hercules. They are myths, which does not make them untrue and certainly does not make them false. We know for a fact that Galileo Galilei lived and stood trial, and yet he fits the hero myth in the very same way Jesus, Hercules, and Spiderman do.

As a theist I do not have any "job" to convince you, or anyone else that my theism is valid or correct, anymore than any atheist has any responsibility to prove their beliefs are valid or correct. As a theist, however, the difference between myself and the O.P. is that I have not place unreasonable demands on the O.P. whereas the O.P. has remarkably excused their own believe from any scrutiny demanding that all theist surrender to his, or her, scrutiny. That's a pretty big difference.

reply to post by Jean Paul Zodeaux

As a theist I do not have any "job" to convince you, or anyone else that my theism is valid or correct, anymore than any atheist has any responsibility to prove their beliefs are valid or correct. As a theist, however, the difference between myself and the O.P. is that I have not place unreasonable demands on the O.P. whereas the O.P. has remarkably excused their own believe from any scrutiny demanding that all theist surrender to his, or her, scrutiny. That's a pretty big difference.

I have simply asked you to say why your theism is more true than others. An atheist has no beliefs by its very definition, therefore, there is nothing for me to prove. Its funny how instead of answering the question "how is your theism better than others", you and others try your best to evade it, because you have no answer..

reply to post by TheCelestialHuman


What writings thousands of years ago.
Zend Avesta?
www.arcaneadvisors.com...


Oh, you forgot one

www.crystalinks.com...

Meskalamdug, the first Sumerian King I could find dated the the 26th Century BC was Born of a virgin on December 25th. Was placed in a manger. performed miracles. Turned water into wine. Rose from the dead. He was called “King of Kings” and “God of Gods.” He was considered the “Only Begotten Son,” Savior,” “Redeemer,” “Sin Bearer,” Anointed One,” and the “Alpha and Omega.” Was also Crucified on a tree. Rose after three days. Descended to the underworld.

my proof is someone told me on the internet that the rock with cuneiform on it said that and even wrote an ebook recently as proof which said they also had Greek references from the time of Alexander the Great. We got a wiki and a whole bunch of other sites are using our "true story" and reposting it all over the place for the truth that it is

Why not. Let's make us some more Saviors! ... Mine is pretty good with the 26th century BC!

See, here is the tablet that proves all the BS I just made up

www.crystalinks.com...

Oh, below is a statue of him made later... see the writing
www.crystalinks.com...


All those others were copies of our guy Meskalamdug

reply to post by TheCelestialHuman

Dear TheCelestialHuman,

I'm sorry to disagree, but I don't think his "proof" is impossible at all. Again, from the challenge site:

I'll take anything which strongly suggests that the "parallel" claim truly existed sometime prior to the writing of the Gospels. For example:

1) Versions of their stories in which we can read about them actually doing these things, provided that the stories are generally agreed-upon by scholars to be pre-Christian. This is the one I'd most like to see. If the deities are truly believed to have done these things, you would think there would be stories somewhere in which they do it.

2) Any information coming from scholarly sources: For example:

a) General mythology books and websites, provided they have no Christ-myther agenda (sorry, I won't accept Wikipedia or similar forums, since there's no way to determine whether the individual doing the posting is a Christ-myther or not). If it's a book, I must be able to acquire it from my local library, or you can mail me the book or e-mail me copies of the pages in question. I won't spend my own money on it (this is to prevent someone from naming some impossible-to-find book and then calling foul on me for not going on a wild and expensive goose chase to get it - remember, I am asking YOU to provide the evidence.)

b) Scholars (Christian or not) who work for a university who agree that the parallels are valid.

c) Anything coming from a mainstream peer-reviewed journal.

3) Photographs of heiroglyphs showing them clearly doing these things (I've seen Christ-mythers claim such hieroglyphs exist for Horus, but every time I ask them to send them to me, I never hear from them again).

Overall, I expect any evidence you provide me with to be something that a reasonable, skeptical and unbiased person (say, someone who is neither a Christian nor a Christ-myther) would accept as convincing evidence that the deity in question was believed, in pre-Christian times, to have done those things. Simply quoting a Christ-myther, or quoting one Christ-myther who quotes another Christ-myther (and so on) obviously will not count. I am expecting evidence that clearly existed prior to and separate from Christ-mythers. (Emphasis added)

Again:

I'll take anything which strongly suggests that the "parallel" claim truly existed sometime prior to the writing of the Gospels.

That's impossible proof? When all you need to do is come up with some story from before Jesus showing that the other god matched Him? And you've got your choice of seven different gods to try. He's even said that he'll pay a partial reward if you can match a part of the list (at least 1/2).

As an example, you claim that some of the gods (I forget which) were born of a virgin, crucified, and resurrected. Just show the story that claims that. What level of proof do you need?

Overall, I expect any evidence you provide me with to be something that a reasonable, skeptical and unbiased person (say, someone who is neither a Christian nor a Christ-myther) would accept as convincing evidence that the deity in question was believed, in pre-Christian times, to have done those things.

Go to it. I won't even take my finder's fee for steering you to easy money.

With respect,
Charles1952

reply to post by TheCelestialHuman


I have never argued that my theism is "more true" than other beliefs, that is your strawman. Any ism by its definition is a belief system. As an atheist you clearly have beliefs, so much so they compelled you to write this thread. If you cannot be honest with yourself, it is hard to believe you will be honest with others. It is funny how you thought you could create a strawman and compel people to fall for your logical fallacy. Whatever your reasons were for such fallaciousness, that you have a strong belief system is more than evident.

This is a common idea but no serious biblical scholar agrees with this.

Even agnostic New Testament scholar Bart Ehrman says the case can't be made...
...so I suggest you keep researching,