Deny Ignorance - A term which Americans find hard to understand

Here we go. Round up for another one of daaskapital's anti-American threads

I will put it in simple terms so the Americans on ATS will understand:

Most of you are ignorant to other countries, world events, and (this is a big one) history!

Furthermore, most of you choose to remain in that state of mind, talking out of your arses, or going off what you read in American history books, or American sources. It doesn't cut it when it isn't real history. It doesn't cut it when others tell you about the real circumstances and provide legitimate sources.

The American ignorance, and indeed, arrogance is astounding. Do you even know what type of crap most of you talk sometimes? Heck, even a moderator was talking in their ignorance yesterday, defying the very quote in which they should be enforcing.

No, i am not anti-American. No i don't hate you all. I just think you's should do more research before talking crap.

Perhaps it isn't the ignorance of most of the Americans of ATS which leads them to act like this. It may be that the arrogance is the overwhelming factor. Most of you are too arrogant for your own good. Most of you are so arrogant, you think you's are always right, and you won't listen to what others have to say. This inevitably leads to what we call, ignorance. Try researching for more, unbiased sources than quote the first thing you see as true. Try taking into account what other members have to say, than just pushing them aside, or arguing, using your bias sources.

The act of commenting without knowledge or credible sources is one that i only see Americans on ATS do. So please, to the Americans on ATS, Deny Ignorance

I don't kno wat givz U teh idae us merikans iz stoopid.

reply to post by FortAnthem


Surely it isn't what you replied with

I outlined my thoughts in the OP.

One of the best questions to ask Americans is whom the first president was. Most will say George Washington. They say that the people wanted to make him a king. Why would they want to do that if they'd already had many presidents before him? lol True, George Washington is the first president under the current constitution, but they refuse to realize that he became president in 1789, but wait... The US became a country and gained independence in 1776... Where is the history before him? They refuse to acknowledge it because it disproves that saintly Christians founded the nation. What fools...

Does this really need another thread man? I know what thread you are talking about and you can go there to see how I feel about it.

Originally posted by AnimositisominA
Does this really need another thread man? I know what thread you are talking about and you can go there to see how I feel about it.

Yes it does need another thread, because i am sick and tired of dealing with their ignorance/arrogance - especially when it comes to American/Australian relations.

I am not only talking about 1 thread, but numerous threads.

Yes there have been numerous threads I been on this website since 2004, The America bashing just gets old after a while. For my part I gave up arguing about it a few years back. You got a problem with my government fine , speak your mind, I do the same, because I thinks its pretty obvious lots of Americans have problems with their government also.

Where you will get a response from me is when you denigrate Americans who are in harms way at the present or have given their live in past wars. I lost family members in the Pacific Theatre and for them to be called cowards and what not, while they were giving up their lives in defense of countries not their own is totally shameful behavior. I am talking about American service men here not their Generals or Political leaders. Same is true for the Vietnam Veterans who have been slandered in these bash America threads. I feel the South Vietnamese people were worth fighting for regardless of what politics were involved. I have an adopted sister who is from South Vietnam, so my view is a bit different I would assume.

I have never taken away credit from any of our Allies in war, I personally have the utmost respect for the Servicemen of all the Commonwealth Nations. The average American does not control what war movies hollywood produces, or what some General or Politician says, and I think anyone one visiting from Commonwealth countries would actually be hard pressed to find average Americans who would say anything derogatory about them.

Blamey had issues with MacArthur, Patton had issues with Montgomery, these issues were 60 years past, the important thing was the war was won with great sacrifice by all allied countries , and each allied country will have a slightly different take on events.

My Grandfather served in Papua, and then later moved to the China India Burma theatre, He always spoke highly of the Commonwealth soldiers, I personally have had good experiences with Commonwealth soldiers, while stationed in Europe, and Iraq the first go round.

As for the present wars, Afghanistan and Iraq, all 4 of my children have served multiple tours, so when blanket accusations are thrown out about American service folks in these wars you are going to get a response from me.

For the US servicemen or women who have done bad things you want to rail about them as individuals I got no problem just do not blanket accuse all Americans of these offenses.

My problem with last night thread is that American Servicemen we being accused of starting a brawl in Australia and being gang-bangers and thugs, and even with updates on the situation with it being shown that the people involved in this incident were not Americans at all but apparently African immigrants to Australia, the America bashing in that thread continiued for another 8 pages.

Not exactly what I was expecting....
but, in my arrogance and omniscience, I'll go ahead and make it what I want it to be...

As far as the term "Deny Ignorance", from what I've seen, the big problem is that instead of saying "No, this ignorance can go no further", there is a BIG group that is "just downright ignorant but deny that they are".
It is, indeed, a description of the term, but not quite what I think the site had in mind.

Originally posted by DarkStormCrow
Where you will get a response from me is when you denigrate Americans who are in harms way at the present or have given their live in past wars. I lost family members in the Pacific Theatre and for them to be called cowards and what not, while they were giving up their lives in defense of countries not their own is totally shameful behavior. I am talking about American service men here not their Generals or Political leaders. Same is true for the Vietnam Veterans who have been slandered in these bash America threads. I feel the South Vietnamese people were worth fighting for regardless of what politics were involved. I have an adopted sister who is from South Vietnam, so my view is a bit different I would assume.

Lets get this straight once and for all. I do not denigrate the USA - not entirely anyway. I show respect where it is due. Have you forgotten Australia's involvement in said wars? I too have had family fight in past wars also, so i think i can relate when i get Americans jumping on threads to bash Australia and it's military/involvement in wars. Australians on the ATS boards only dish out what they are served. We only reply in the manner many Americans think we do only after they start it all. Australia and it's troops have always been denigrated and treated unfairly since WW2 - by the USA. If you want to see a thread where dozens of Americans slander Australia, check out my thread about the NK missile aimed at Australia. geez, if there was ever a battle between Aus/US on ATS, that was it.

I have never taken away credit from any of our Allies in war, I personally have the utmost respect for the Servicemen of all the Commonwealth Nations.

I know you don't

The average American does not control what war movies hollywood produces, or what some General or Politician says, and I think anyone one visiting from Commonwealth countries would actually be hard pressed to find average Americans who would say anything derogatory about them.

No, but the average American can control what they read and how much they know (this is what this thread is getting at).

Blamey had issues with MacArthur, Patton had issues with Montgomery, these issues were 60 years past, the important thing was the war was won with great sacrifice by all allied countries , and each allied country will have a slightly different take on events.

Even though the war was won by all countries. It is fact that Australia was marginalised, and silenced in their involvement in WW2 (and Vietnam). This is why we get so many ignorant/arrogant Americans on ATS, blabbering away at what they think is the truth (Especially regarding the Pacific) when it is not.

My problem with last night thread is that American Servicemen we being accused of starting a brawl in Australia and being gang-bangers and thugs, and even with updates on the situation with it being shown that the people involved in this incident were not Americans at all but apparently African immigrants to Australia, the America bashing in that thread continiued for another 8 pages.

About last night, i think it was more that people got embroiled in debates/arguments, that both sides wouldn't care about the update you posted. Even if it were a brawl between both sides, it wasn't major...It wasn't so much America bashing for the next 8 pages either. When that moderator brought up that statement about us speaking Japanese if it weren't for the USA (which was uncalled for), it is what really set the battles off again. Yeah, i replied to that mod in anger (as did many other Australians) only because he was basing his statement on ignorance.

Good day to you

Originally posted by PurpleChiten
Not exactly what I was expecting....
but, in my arrogance and omniscience, I'll go ahead and make it what I want it to be...

As far as the term "Deny Ignorance", from what I've seen, the big problem is that instead of saying "No, this ignorance can go no further", there is a BIG group that is "just downright ignorant but deny that they are".
It is, indeed, a description of the term, but not quite what I think the site had in mind.

It still doesn't deny the fact that many American ATS members are under-educated and choose to reply with nonsense, than to research the topic at hand.

Good day to you

reply to post by daaskapital


I just want to commend you for your speaking of the truth. I have lived north of Brisbane for quite a while until my wife died in January. I am from Norway, but I greatly respect your country, Oz. Ha det bra.

Have you ever been to America, OP?

Originally posted by daaskapital

Originally posted by PurpleChiten
Not exactly what I was expecting....
but, in my arrogance and omniscience, I'll go ahead and make it what I want it to be...

As far as the term "Deny Ignorance", from what I've seen, the big problem is that instead of saying "No, this ignorance can go no further", there is a BIG group that is "just downright ignorant but deny that they are".
It is, indeed, a description of the term, but not quite what I think the site had in mind.

It still doesn't deny the fact that many American ATS members are under-educated and choose to reply with nonsense, than to research the topic at hand.

Good day to you

Can't argue with that. I've gotten very frustrated with some who are unable to see the facts laid out right before them. Absolute, irrefutable proof, statistics from government websites, universities, complete scientific studies with data to support the conclusions, they just glaze their eyes and spew out the lies that have been fed to them. I don't know whether they are blind, stubborn or just very, very stupid at times and it is very frustrating.
It's even driven me to be downright snarky to them on occaision. If they fail to acknowledge outright facts, I saw no reason to be respectful to them or to consider them "intelligent life forms" as they clearly weren't very intelligent. (probably a stress relief response from me...get silly and snarky).
I do see what you're saying and have witnessed it. Just keep in mind that it's not indicative of all Americans and many of us are very capable of discussing things intelligently if we are getting the same from the opposing side. Unfortunately, that's just not always the case. I'm sure the same things go on in all cultures, there are just many more Americans here than any other nationality so there's a wider cross section.

reply to post by daaskapital


Couple of things you have to look at about the Pacific Theatre in WW 2

Do you think Australia would have wanted to fight the Japanese alone, say for example there was no Pearl Harbor attack and America did not enter the war?

The US Marines alone suffered more combat deaths in the Pacific Theatre than the Australian armed forces did for the entire war in the Pacific theatre. Australia lost more folks in North Africa and Europe than they did in the Pacific.

The US Army suffered more combat deaths on Okinawa alone than than the Australian armed forces did for the entire war in the Pacific Theatre.

Those are just cold hard facts its not a knock on Australia.

Also it comes down to production of war material America produced 141 Aircraft Carriers during the war, Over half all Aircraft on both sides produced during the war were made by America, and almost half of all vehicles were made by America. Not a bad showing for a country accused of being late.

Fact is the Allies cannot win without the American production, even the Soviets loose, because American Lend lease is feeding them, clothing them, and supplying nearly all their raw materials for tanks and planes, not to mention without American trucks and jeeps the Russian Army walks to Berlin.

Originally posted by DarkStormCrow
reply to post by daaskapital

 

Couple of things you have to look at about the Pacific Theatre in WW 2

Do you think Australia would have wanted to fight the Japanese alone, say for example there was no Pearl Harbor attack and America did not enter the war?

The US Marines alone suffered more combat deaths in the Pacific Theatre than the Australian armed forces did for the entire war in the Pacific theatre. Australia lost more folks in North Africa and Europe than they did in the Pacific.

The US Army suffered more combat deaths on Okinawa alone than than the Australian armed forces did for the entire war in the Pacific Theatre.

Those are just cold hard facts its not a knock on Australia.

Also it comes down to production of war material America produced 141 Aircraft Carriers during the war, Over half all Aircraft on both sides produced during the war were made by America, and almost half of all vehicles were made by America. Not a bad showing for a country accused of being late.

Fact is the Allies cannot win without the American production, even the Soviets loose, because American Lend lease is feeding them, clothing them, and supplying nearly all their raw materials for tanks and planes, not to mention without American trucks and jeeps the Russian Army walks to Berlin.

We were prepared to fight the Japanese alone, considering Britain abandoned us. We pulled most of our troops out of Europe for the defence of Australia.

Remember, Australia had less numbers...so obviously, there was going to be less casualty rates...

Yes, American production was beneficial, but it wasn't like Australia used many of it...

reply to post by daaskapital


Actually on the Lend Lease deals Australia did pretty well and actually gave more material back to the US in foodstuffs, clothing and tin goods than they received in dollar terms. Somewhere in Queensland there is a warehouse with US Lend Lease portable generators still in their shipping crates, There was a photo of the crates on the OZ at War website but I lost the link.

Since you had to single me out I;m here,
That's what you wanted, yes?
You know you're quite right:
I should have never bothered reading Churchill's history of the Second World War.
Filling my head with anti-Australian propaganda.
Neither of you could refute my points so you whine about me bashing Australia.

By all means, post the quotes where I "bashed" Australia so everyone can see what you're ranting about.
If you can't then maybe the problem is with you, not others.

It's not my fault Australia had no navy left to defend against Japan from attacking in 1942.
(blame Churchill for using them all up on Greece and North Africa)
Or maybe the Japanese didn't think there was anything worth taking there.
Nor is it incorrect to state the US joined the wars (WW1 and WW2) of the British empire before Australia joined "our" (the United States) wars.

Nobody is going to rewrite history books to accommodate your slighted pride over facts that make you uncomfortable. There is a difference between denying ignorance and ignorantly denying but maybe they teach that Australia beat Japan single-handedly, I'm not familiar with Australian public education but listening to you that must be the case since there's 2 of you that concur. (No, you can't vote facts out of existence either)

So please find those quotes of mine that are so demeaning.
Post them here for all to see.
I'll be waiting.

Originally posted by Asktheanimals
Since you had to single me out I;m here,
That's what you wanted, yes?
You know you're quite right:
I should have never bothered reading Churchill's history of the Second World War.
Filling my head with anti-Australian propaganda.
Neither of you could refute my points so you whine about me bashing Australia.

Hello

First and foremost, this thread is about the majority of American ATS members and their ignorance/arrogance, not about yourself (as much as your ego would like to believe). Secondly, i did not want to single you out by name (as singling members out is against the T&C's), but i thank you for coming here to discuss the matter at hand.

I believe myself and Germanicus had every right to complain about your offensive comment.

By all means, post the quotes where I "bashed" Australia so everyone can see what you're ranting about.
If you can't then maybe the problem is with you, not others.

No one said you bashed Australia - well, i didn't anyway. If you would like me to post your quotes, here they are:

Australia didn't seem to mind when America joined the British empire fighting WW1.
If the US hadn't joined "your war" in 1941 you'd be speaking Japanese now.
Seems to me we joined the wars of the Crown lands long before Australia joined our wars.

No worries though, I have the utmost respect for Australian soldiers. Some of the scrappiest fighters to ever see combat. Fighting in a Mickey D's though - you know that's US territory, right?

I responded to your post with:

Oh look, a moderator engaging in "Anti-Australian" discussions...

Don't start with that bull#...please. Australia was more than capable of defending itself, especially if an invasion were to occur. Hell, we were the first force to defeat Japan in a major battle, the first force to repel the Nazis on land. FFS, give credit where it is due! We had already won the battle for Australia by the time the US came parading down here on their high horse.

Scrappiest? What do you mean? The disorganised term, or the determined term? if it is the former you can get lost. Australia has, for the most part been a professional force for many, many years, more so than what can be said about the US Military, especially in it's current state (with the pissing on dead bodies, and Quran burnings). If your post was serious (disregarding the last part) then i have lost respect for you, both, as a member of ATS and as a moderator. You should be displaying the upsides to ATS, not reveling in your arrogance and bias against other countries/forces.

It's not my fault Australia had no navy left to defend against Japan from attacking in 1942.
(blame Churchill for using them all up on Greece and North Africa)

Going by what you said, i should also blame the USA for using them in the Pacific theatre as well. We did have ships, only that they were being used alongside US ships.

Or maybe the Japanese didn't think there was anything worth taking there.

As a reply to this, i will quote a source:

Mr. Sato indicated that there was a Japanese Invasion Force of many troop transports and warships heading south from Japan to make a beach landing half way between Townsville and Brisbane. Mr. Sato claimed that the air raids on Darwin, which had started on 19 February 1942, were "a feint to destroy shipping and planes".

Mr. Sato indicated that the Japanese Navy was responsible for the implementation of plans to invade and occupy Australia. He indicated that he was always at the nerve centre of the Japanese Navy.

Mr Sato had stated that the Japanese had realised that it would have been too difficult to move a large force south from Darwin and had then decided to attack the Queensland coast midway between Townsville and Brisbane. He indicated that communications were good and the population was sparse in that area of Queensland.

The city of Brisbane was reportedly the first objective of this so-called Invasion Plan of Australia. It was believed that Brisbane could be taken quite readily with a minimum of cost and resistance.

Sydney was the next objective and was to be attacked by land and amphibious forces. They then planned to move on to Melbourne, but by this time, they anticipated that Australia would have surrendered.

Things changed when orders were issued for the Japanese forces to take Milne Bay and Port Moresby. The Japanese were not willing to risk another operation in Australian while their supply lines were in peril. Again, according to Mr. Sato, the Japanese campaign in New Guinea used up all the forces originally intended for the invasion of Australia. Mr. Sato indicated that the Japanese had initially thought the Australian forces would be a pushover in New Guinea. This they abruptly found not to be the case.

www.ozatwar.com...

To be continued

reply to post by daaskapital


Know what I find funny, if this thread had "African-Americans" instead of Americans as the label....

You know, I should do that. Re-type your whole OP and replace one word...wonder if your rant will seem as fancy then?

For ignorance, one generally need only look in a mirror.

I was about to say that people from all over are guilty of failing to deny ignorance and then i saw this:

Originally posted by daaskapital
Here we go. Round up for another one of daaskapital's anti-American threads

I will put it in simple terms so the Americans on ATS will understand:

Most of you are ignorant to other countries, world events, and (this is a big one) history!
]

And i thought that whilst a huge over generalisation on your part, there is definitely something in what you say. Some of the most twisted versions of history i have ever read appear here on ATS from some of our American members........again though, i have to say it isn't just people from the US. Many people of the net these days seem to have a totally warped view of history.