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"The End Game: 2012 And 2013 Will Usher In The End"

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posted on Jun, 3 2012 @ 09:25 PM
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Originally posted by briannoble12
reply to post by SedatedSon
 

Unfortunately no one will escape. Even the hoarders of food and weapons in the US mid-west. But panic not! The great collapse will one day arrive on all our doorsteps - but not yet! Europe has a contingency plan if Greece forecloses (which it might).

The problem anyway is not strictly debt. Debt is only money owed. The old saying that if you owe £50,000 you have a problem - however if you owe £50,00000, the lender has a problem is also true of Greece. Greece does not have the problem. The IMF and the down-line banks have the problem. The banks are not Greece!

The banks are not a country or a government either yet they seem to be f##king every single one who is associated with them. So what do we do? Sit back and let them keep doing it like we always do? Thats all we can do. I don't really care and I'm sitting back watching the show whether we pull out of it or not. I have not invested in this piece of sh#t system and I never will. I have nothing to lose from this. But good luck to all parties involved

edit on 3-6-2012 by SedatedSon because: (no reason given)

edit on 3-6-2012 by SedatedSon because: (no reason given)




posted on Jun, 3 2012 @ 09:57 PM
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Originally posted by daskakik

Originally posted by 00nunya00
reply to post by daskakik
 

Um.....okay, so you disagree with his choice of words. Many do not.

True, but it doesn't make them any more accurate.


I disagree with your choice of words in saying it will be "tough times." Oh well. Not really important. The facts still stand.

Also true and as history has shown time and again, even in the worst economic times humans pull through. Not all of them but the majority. Sorry for not buying into the gloom and doom.


Sigh, sorry but I'm not in the mood today to take your fight bait. I really couldn't care less that you're sitting in your corner with your fingers in your ears mumbling how it's all going to be okay (as long as we're throwing insults at each other, there's my answer to your "doom and gloom" jab
). Go for it. Doesn't bother me any. The end.



posted on Jun, 3 2012 @ 10:01 PM
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Originally posted by jimmyx
all of you that think the world will soon end, send me all your worthless cash. i guess i'm just (sheeple), (can't wake up), (part of the illuminati), (disinfo agent), (dumb and stupid)...so...please help out, and unburden yourselves of that worthless cash you have...thankyou


Sure, I'll trade you my worthless cash for your worthless precious metals.
Send me all your pre-1965 quarters and dimes, and I'll give you $5 and $2 each respectively. Then we'll see which one has more wealth in a few years.
edit on 3-6-2012 by 00nunya00 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 3 2012 @ 10:16 PM
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reply to post by surrealist
 


"Money" is illusionary. The "collapse" and "reset" will be illusionary as well.

Its effects will be real, however, because the illusion is believed to be real by so many.

Isnt it funny how so many can be led by so few, to think that bits and bytes on a hard drive actually contain any intrinsic value whatsoever?

The rothschilds know its all fake. All the PTB do. But as long as the average prole thinks that "money" has any value at all, and they not having any means they have no value, the PTB will have absolute control, because theyll hold all the "value".

Its a con job.

A game.

A trick.

A ponsy scheme.

It is all an illusionary sleight of hand.

There will be no reset... only a consolidation of power, pulling those final bits and bytes of "money" into the same place, controlled by the same people to lord over all those who dont have it.

Wake up world, if you dare... all this "money" is as gossamer and ethereal as that dream you had last night that youve completely forgotten about now.

The true loss will be less than trivial. The perceived loss will be monumental. And thats the crux of the issue right there.
edit on 6/3/2012 by CaticusMaximus because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 3 2012 @ 10:32 PM
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reply to post by 00nunya00
 

The "doom and gloom" comment wasn't a personal jab but a general comment about the OP and there was no fight bait. I was just posting facts. Like the fact that before the Great depression the US population was 122 million and by 1940 there were 132 million. No massive die off, even due to increased suicides and hunger pangs.

I agree with SedatedSon and CaticusMaximus not everyone is a participating party and the situation is largely illusionary.


edit on 3-6-2012 by daskakik because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 3 2012 @ 10:59 PM
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Originally posted by daskakik
reply to post by 00nunya00
 

The "doom and gloom" comment wasn't a personal jab but a general comment about the OP and there was no fight bait. I was just posting facts. Like the fact that before the Great depression the US population was 122 million and by 1940 there were 132 million. No massive die off, even due to increased suicides and hunger pangs.

I agree with SedatedSon and CaticusMaximus not everyone is a participating party and the situation is largely illusionary.


edit on 3-6-2012 by daskakik because: (no reason given)


And when the Depression hit, the farming population was one quarter of the entire population. One out of four people lived on a working farm and grew their own food and many of their supplies, warding off the mass starvation that could have happened (and did still because of droughts). As of 1990, only 1% of the population lived on a farm. Even less today, because our population has grown by about 40 million people since then and craploads of smaller farms have been driven out by BigAgra. Nowadays, most people don't even have a patch of land big enough to grow even 10% of the food they need, let alone the skills, supplies and seeds necessary to do so.

What do you think happens when the economy collapses and the price of food skyrockets, what little food is left after the initial panic clears the shelves? Our entire population is dependent on a monolithic agriculture industry that itself is 100% dependent on oil to grow, process and ship food coast to coast. How does that keep going when the price of oil skyrockets from hyperinflation? They never had to deal with that in the 30's; 99% of everything they bought was made in-state if not in-town. Now it's all made thousands of miles away.

You think we have a nanny state now? Just wait. We will need a Big Brother government to provide us with *everything*, and price controls on every single product out there. And ultimately, who's going to lend them the money to fix it all for us? The rest of the frigging world is melting down alongside the US and Europe; no one will have anything left to loan soon. The public won't be able to buy bonds, they'll be too busy picking up cardboard scraps, let alone spare cash to rebuild their government.

Oh, but it will all be okay because Brazil turned out fine.



posted on Jun, 3 2012 @ 11:56 PM
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Originally posted by 00nunya00
And when the Depression hit, the farming population was one quarter of the entire population.

Good point about the farming population but even if the farming population is smaller it is still producing more than ever so why would they not be able to hold off starvation?


What do you think happens when the economy collapses and the price of food skyrockets, what little food is left after the initial panic clears the shelves? Our entire population is dependent on a monolithic agriculture industry that itself is 100% dependent on oil to grow, process and ship food coast to coast.

Food doesn't exist only on shelves.

Honestly what I think happens is that the government steps in and saves the day in exchange for a little more of your freedom.


You think we have a nanny state now? Just wait. We will need a Big Brother government to provide us with *everything*, and price controls on every single product out there. And ultimately, who's going to lend them the money to fix it all for us?

I see my point above wasn't that far off. The difference is that you believe money means something. Its just a way to make trading easier. If its value collapses it doesn't mean the real world objects disappear.

The fact that people think someone needs to lend money to get things fixed shows just how well the scam works.



posted on Jun, 4 2012 @ 12:30 AM
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Originally posted by daskakik
Good point about the farming population but even if the farming population is smaller it is still producing more than ever so why would they not be able to hold off starvation?


Because the chain of field-to-table has so many more steps in it now, and like I said is all 100% dependent on oil in every single step of that process. If the global economy collapses, the only countries which profit are the resource-laden countries because their commodities become worth more. Oil at $300 a barrel means food is not just 300% higher than it is now, but even more because that 3x factor is applied at every single stage of the process. If oil is outrageous for growing the food, and for shipping the food, and for processing the food, the food becomes worth more than anyone can afford. How does a bankrupt government come up with this outrageous amount of money to subsidize oil for the food industry? How much can they really help when no one will lend them any more money, including and especially its biggest lender----the American people themselves?

The supply chain for everything has become a very tight, short trip as Japan showed us last year. It was merely days after they shut down plants there that companies in the US said they would no longer be able to offer their products because of parts shortage. Everything is shipped directly from its manufacturer and arrives within days, nothing sits in warehouses anymore, especially not food. Walmart has probably a few days worth of food shipments in its warehouses at any one time, and after that's gone, it's all gone for good when you can't pay to ship any more in.



Food doesn't exist only on shelves.

Honestly what I think happens is that the government steps in and saves the day in exchange for a little more of your freedom.


See above.


I see my point above wasn't that far off. The difference is that you believe money means something. Its just a way to make trading easier. If its value collapses it doesn't mean the real world objects disappear.

The fact that people think someone needs to lend money to get things fixed shows just how well the scam works.


You're right, it just means that purchasing those real world objects becomes impossible for most people. Have fun trying to trade your handful of possessions or skills to people who don't need them, but have what you need.

You know how farmers pay for their next crop? Credit. Only community-supported agriculture farms don't rely on credit, and they cease to exist when people don't have the money to pay up front for next season's crop. Fiat money and credit is indeed a scam, but it's unfortunately the scam the entire world has now been built on.



posted on Jun, 4 2012 @ 12:52 AM
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reply to post by 00nunya00
 

Good points but they are only valid if things are not being controlled to play out this way. Now the OP is about "2012-2013 being the end", so instead of going round in circles with "what if" scenarios let's just wait and see. I have seen enough threads on the end being only months away, only to see the months come and go without any real collapse occurring to get freaked out by yet another alarmist prediction.

edit on 4-6-2012 by daskakik because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 4 2012 @ 07:18 AM
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Originally posted by daskakik
reply to post by 00nunya00
 

Good points but they are only valid if things are not being controlled to play out this way.


That's the debate equivalent of sh*tting the bed.

That's your last argument? Okay. I'll consider that a concession.



posted on Jun, 4 2012 @ 10:22 AM
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Originally posted by 00nunya00
That's the debate equivalent of sh*tting the bed.

Since I believe that things are being controlled, I would say that it isn't quite that, but of course you believe differently.

Truth is that the situation is much more complicated than either of us has gotten into but my point from the start was that even if 90% of the human population was to die off because of some economic crisis (which isn't going to happen), it still wouldn't be the end of the world.


That's your last argument? Okay. I'll consider that a concession.

Actually my last argument will be in 2014 when this guys prediction falls short of its claims.


edit on 4-6-2012 by daskakik because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 4 2012 @ 12:50 PM
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Originally posted by daskakik

Originally posted by 00nunya00
That's the debate equivalent of sh*tting the bed.

Since I believe that things are being controlled, I would say that it isn't quite that, but of course you believe differently.


So tell me what their plan is? They're controlling this to what end? I agree there's a plan, but I think it involves intentional strife so that we'll bend over for whatever BS solution they give us.


Truth is that the situation is much more complicated than either of us has gotten into but my point from the start was that even if 90% of the human population was to die off because of some economic crisis (which isn't going to happen), it still wouldn't be the end of the world.


Fair enough, it's more complicated----and I don't think 90% of everyone dies, and never said so. Let's not start building ourselves a straw man. IMHO there *will* be starvation of the usual suspects----homeless, elderly, poor, infirm, etc. Perfect solution for all those "parasites" right? The very poor who survive get to go to work for the government doing sweat labor, the middle class gets to fight it out for the few white-collar jobs left and be thankful they're still in the middle. And the rich get richer.



That's your last argument? Okay. I'll consider that a concession.

Actually my last argument will be in 2014 when this guys prediction falls short of its claims.


edit on 4-6-2012 by daskakik because: (no reason given)


I don't think we'll have to wait that long, but we'll see.
edit on 4-6-2012 by 00nunya00 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 4 2012 @ 01:17 PM
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Originally posted by 00nunya00
So tell me what their plan is? They're controlling this to what end? I agree there's a plan, but I think it involves intentional strife so that we'll bend over for whatever BS solution they give us.

I think you answered yourself.


Fair enough, it's more complicated----and I don't think 90% of everyone dies, and never said so. Let's not start building ourselves a straw man.

Never said you said it. I was just pointing out that even a die off of that proportion doesn't mean the end of the world.


IMHO there *will* be starvation of the usual suspects----homeless, elderly, poor, infirm, etc. Perfect solution for all those "parasites" right? The very poor who survive get to go to work for the government doing sweat labor, the middle class gets to fight it out for the few white-collar jobs left and be thankful they're still in the middle. And the rich get richer.

Sounds like a very 1st world view. For a large segment of the world that is the way it has always been so not only is it not "the end of the world" but it isn't even "the end of the world as most know it".


I don't think we'll have to wait that long, but we'll see.

You may be right.
EU Fiscal Union
edit on 4-6-2012 by daskakik because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 4 2012 @ 02:30 PM
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reply to post by daskakik
 


So......we're back to you agreeing with my analysis, but disagreeing with the words "end of the world". Okay. Well, there we have it. You're right, it is a first-world view----I was born and raised in the first world, and while I have empathy, I also know none of us with even the best empathy can truly understand what living in the third-world is like until we've done it *on a third-world budget*. In my view, the first world nations turning into third world cesspools with third-world budgets for their people is as close to the end of the world as we're ever going to realistically get. Barring the ELE meteor strike or whatnot, this is it. This is the biggest threat to humanity besides, possibly, Fukushima (although the variables on that are even more than this clusterf*ck). People will survive, sure----they survived the Toba event with a few thousand breeding pairs. It wasn't technically *the end of the world* but neither was it for the dinosaurs when the went completely extinct, then. Life will always go on; I think you're just being a bit nick-picky and contrarian about the choice of words; for most, the entire collapse of the global marketplace and most governments would be a very, very big deal.



posted on Jun, 4 2012 @ 03:02 PM
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reply to post by 00nunya00
 

Agreeing with your analysis? I pointed out three examples given by the author that didn't end up in a world collapse, that you just brushed off as nothing. I've been talking about the whole deal being orchestrated to provide an illusion of great strife where one doesn't exist and you even questioned it. Now we see the EU fiscal union being proposed.

Maybe I'm being picky about the choice of words because someone living in the first world saying:

the first world nations turning into third world cesspools with third-world budgets for their people is as close to the end of the world as we're ever going to realistically get.

sounds like a load to someone (me) living in the third world. There is nothing apocalyptic about living here so your claim that it is the end of the world is nothing more than first world whining about the end of the world because you may have to go through some "tough times".


edit on 4-6-2012 by daskakik because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 4 2012 @ 09:24 PM
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Originally posted by daskakik
reply to post by 00nunya00
 

Agreeing with your analysis? I pointed out three examples given by the author that didn't end up in a world collapse, that you just brushed off as nothing. I've been talking about the whole deal being orchestrated to provide an illusion of great strife where one doesn't exist and you even questioned it. Now we see the EU fiscal union being proposed.


Yeah, my analysis---about the state of those three countries not being all keen as you first proposed, and about the "plan" being to cause starvation and suffering. Did you not yourself agree with that two posts ago? Am I confusing you? I brushed nothing off, go back and read.


Maybe I'm being picky about the choice of words because someone living in the first world saying:

the first world nations turning into third world cesspools with third-world budgets for their people is as close to the end of the world as we're ever going to realistically get.

sounds like a load to someone (me) living in the third world. There is nothing apocalyptic about living here so your claim that it is the end of the world is nothing more than first world whining about the end of the world because you may have to go through some "tough times".


edit on 4-6-2012 by daskakik because: (no reason given)


Yeah, hon, you're in a third world (allegedly) but obviously not living on a third world budget, or you wouldn't be constantly on ATS, you'd be picking trash heaps for scraps. You don't know a lot more about living "third world" than the rest of us. That's like saying you know what it's like to live under an oppressive communist regime because you visited Disneyland China.



posted on Jun, 4 2012 @ 09:44 PM
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Originally posted by 00nunya00
Yeah, my analysis---about the state of those three countries not being all keen as you first proposed, and about the "plan" being to cause starvation and suffering. Did you not yourself agree with that two posts ago? Am I confusing you? I brushed nothing off, go back and read.

My point is that the Greece situation is probably going to pass just as those three did and no real starvation or suffering is going to take place. I agreed that something was going to take place but that it was orchestrated and therefore under control and that the illusion that it was bigger and out of control is fake. The push for a EU fiscal union pretty much proves that.


Yeah, hon, you're in a third world (allegedly) but obviously not living on a third world budget, or you wouldn't be constantly on ATS, you'd be picking trash heaps for scraps. You don't know a lot more about living "third world" than the rest of us. That's like saying you know what it's like to live under an oppressive communist regime because you visited Disneyland China.

The problem is that you believe third world countries to be cesspools, well they are not. Your ignorance of what the third world is really like leads you to stereotyping. Yeah everybody in the third world picks trash heaps for a living because its the only work in town. What a joke.

What is a third world budget? I'm constantly on ATS because I do freelance work on the net, so I'm always waiting to see if something pops up but it sure doesn't mean I've got any significant income or savings, at least not by first world standards.


edit on 4-6-2012 by daskakik because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 4 2012 @ 11:25 PM
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Originally posted by daskakik
My point is that the Greece situation is probably going to pass just as those three did and no real starvation or suffering is going to take place. I agreed that something was going to take place but that it was orchestrated and therefore under control and that the illusion that it was bigger and out of control is fake. The push for a EU fiscal union pretty much proves that.


Right on, you can believe that----whatever, it concerns me none. But you coming in and acting like everyone else being concerned is some ridiculous joke when literally *every single economist in the world* is wringing their hands over Greece alone, not to mention the entire Euro situation as a whole, let alone the knock-on effect to the global economy, is completely self-aggrandizing and ludicrous. Frigging China has prepared an emergency commission to study and prepare for the effects of a Greek exit, and brace for how it will affect China's economy. They don't spend millions of dollars preparing for something that will be a blip like Russia, Argentina and Brazil were in comparison to the last 4 years. You've completely missed the point of why the author brought those countries up in the first place----not to make the point that things will be okay, as you seem to believe, but rather to make the point that those who have been through economic collapse on a small scale recently are preparing THEMSELVES for the coming Euro collapse because they know how bad it can get.

"The push for an EU fiscal union"-----I think you're a little confused, the Euro *is* the fiscal union, what they're pushing for is a closer political union with less sovereignty over national budgets. That was the plan from the very beginning---a financial union that necessarily begets a political union---and is being remembered now because Germany is suddenly the only holder of the bag of money, and now everyone wants to cozy up and claim some of that cash as their own. And that's fine, they can borrow all they want, all that happens is Germany ends up with more of their gold reserves and they go bankrupt anyways. There is NO deliverable amount of money that can get the EU out of their problems, it's mathematically impossible for all of the countries in the EU combined at peak fiscal performance to bail out all the banks and sovereigns in the EU which need bailing out. People lie, but math doesn't. The maths say "buh bye Euro".



The problem is that you believe third world countries to be cesspools, well they are not. Your ignorance of what the third world is really like leads you to stereotyping. Yeah everybody in the third world picks trash heaps for a living because its the only work in town. What a joke.


Third world countries have some gorgeous landscapes and amazing people. But they call them third-world for a reason. You're obviously willing to take the risks inherent in a third-world society, but for the rest of us who would rather continue living somewhat in the standard that the progress of civilization has afforded us, yeah, the thought of living in a country like Sudan or Guatemala or Haiti is not desirable. If you'd like to deny the disparity between the rich and the poor there, and the sheer volume of ultra-poverty that exists in those countries, be my guest, but the facts are not on your side.


What is a third world budget? I'm constantly on ATS because I do freelance work on the net, so I'm always waiting to see if something pops up but it sure doesn't mean I've got any significant income or savings, at least not by first world standards.


edit on 4-6-2012 by daskakik because: (no reason given)


A third world budget is the kind of budget where you don't have the luxury of doing "freelance net work", largely because you've grown up illiterate or with very little education because you had to start working in the fields/factories/shipyards/etc to feed your family at 12, and now you subside on 1,000 calories a day if you're lucky and cannot afford healthcare or education for your own kids. THAT is a third-world budget. Would you like to share with the class what your idea of a third-world budget is? If you say "room to pick up a coffee at the internet cafe while you surf the net" I'm going to laugh in your face.



posted on Jun, 4 2012 @ 11:46 PM
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reply to post by Avicoax
 


nothing, removed!
curious



posted on Jun, 5 2012 @ 12:04 AM
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Originally posted by 00nunya00
Right on, you can believe that----whatever, it concerns me none. But you coming in and acting like everyone else being concerned is some ridiculous joke when literally *every single economist in the world* is wringing their hands over Greece alone, not to mention the entire Euro situation as a whole, let alone the knock-on effect to the global economy, is completely self-aggrandizing and ludicrous.

Time will tell


"The push for an EU fiscal union"-----I think you're a little confused, the Euro *is* the fiscal union, what they're pushing for is a closer political union with less sovereignty over national budgets.

That is what they called it in the article I posted.


That was the plan from the very beginning

Right which is why I said the threat of starvation was never there.


the thought of living in a country like Sudan or Guatemala or Haiti is not desirable. If you'd like to deny the disparity between the rich and the poor there, and the sheer volume of ultra-poverty that exists in those countries, be my guest, but the facts are not on your side.

I'm Guatemalan. You can check my posting history, I have mentioned it a few times. Yes there is a disparity between the rich and the poor but that is true all over the world and we do have a middle class.


A third world budget is the kind of budget where you don't have the luxury of doing "freelance net work", largely because you've grown up illiterate or with very little education because you had to start working in the fields/factories/shipyards/etc to feed your family at 12, and now you subside on 1,000 calories a day if you're lucky and cannot afford healthcare or education for your own kids. THAT is a third-world budget. Would you like to share with the class what your idea of a third-world budget is? If you say "room to pick up a coffee at the internet cafe while you surf the net" I'm going to laugh in your face.

Your ignorance is showing. Minimum wage in Guatemala is actually $4100 a year (about 1/4 the US). 96% of children are enrolled in school and adult illiteracy is 24%. 66% of women and 48% of men are overweight. That is the truth, not Sally Struthers trying to get your donations or some MSM piece made to pluck at your heart strings , to justify foreign aid.
edit on 5-6-2012 by daskakik because: (no reason given)



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