Pro-Choice VS. Pro-Life?

I was watching George Carlin talk about abortion, and that inspired me to get ATS's take on abortion. I would like for everyone to tell me their stance, Pro-Life or Pro-Choice, then I would like for you to tell me why you take that stance. It is a difficult topic to talk about, but it is an important topic, and so it should be discussed.
I take the stance Pro-Choice, but I believe abortion should only be allowed only in the first trimester.
I'll start off by giving some reasons why I am, then I will hand it over to everyone else.


1. In the first trimester, a fetus can not exist without the mother. It should not be considered separate of the mother because it can not exist outside of her womb.
2. In the case of rape or incest, forcing the women to give birth would cause even more psychological harm.
3. The ability of a woman to have control of her body is critical to civil rights. If the government can force a woman to continue a pregnancy, what about forcing a woman to use contraception or go through sterilization?
4.

The central question seems to be "Are fetuses human beings?" Well, if fetuses are human beings, why aren't they counted by the census? If fetuses are human beings, why is it there's no funeral following a miscarriage? If fetuses are human beings, why do people say, "We have two children and one on the way," instead of "We have three children"?

5.

The hard-core pro-lifers tell us that life begins at fertilization, when the sperm fertilizes the egg. Which usually occurs a few minutes after the man says, "Sorry, honey, I was gonna pull out, but the phone startled me." But even after fertilization it's still six or seven days before the egg reaches the uterus and pregnancy begins. And not every egg makes it. Eighty percent of a woman's fertilized eggs are rinsed out of her body once a month during those delightful few days she has. They end up on sanitary napkins, and yet they are fertilized eggs. So, what these antiabortion people are actually telling us is that any woman who's had more than one period is a serial killer. I don't mean to be picky, I'm just looking for a little consistency.

- The two quotes are from George Carlin, which I think are two very good points to be made.
I could go on and on about why abortion should be allowed in the first trimester, but I'll leave it at 5 reasons for now and give the rest of ATS a chance to speak up.

Here is a video of Carlin talking about abortion for those who want a good laugh:

reply to post by TheCelestialHuman

I was watching George Carlin talk about abortion, and that inspired me to get ATS's take on abortion.

Really?

In MSM alot right now hey? Wonder what ATS will think.

I agree with you but refuse to call myself pro choice. I want nothing to do with "ah we did the abortion, oh # it lived....throw it in the trash and hope it dies", and the whole partial birth abortion "hurry suck its brain out becore the feet are born!!!" Nonsense. Both sides of the debate totally disgust me.........

reply to post by phroziac

I want nothing to do with "ah we did the abortion, oh # it lived....throw it in the trash and hope it dies", and the whole partial birth abortion "hurry suck its brain out becore the feet are born!!!" Nonsense.

Now that, really is murder.. First trimester abortions, however, should not be considered murder and should be allowed

Mark my words.. nothing good will come of this thread...

It never does when it comes to the subject of Abortion..

reply to post by DaMod

It's tender topics such as this one that should be discussed.. It seems the important issues, no one ever wants to talk about, people should try getting out of their comfort zones for once. Everyone's ideas and views are important, and I am willing to listen and discuss every aspect of the issue..

It should be left to the individual to make the decision and live with it.

The pro's say we dont have the right to end a life, but what about the life of the mother? She may not have even been a willing participant.

We should all butt out of others peoples business.

Originally posted by TheCelestialHuman
reply to post by phroziac

 

I want nothing to do with "ah we did the abortion, oh # it lived....throw it in the trash and hope it dies", and the whole partial birth abortion "hurry suck its brain out becore the feet are born!!!" Nonsense.

Now that, really is murder.. First trimester abortions, however, should not be considered murder and should be allowed

I totally agree with you. If a lady is pregnant and wants an abortion she needs to take care of it at the point where it cant live outside of the mother. And anyone who would deny an abortion to a woman who was a rape victim is a horrible person. But theres also a # ton of women who falsely accuse men of rape. I dobt trust earth women much but whatever.

Every woman ive ever met who had an abortion regretted it badly by the way.

an alien told my the spirit incarnates on the 21st day

Make all insurance coverage ALL forms of birthcontrol to the point where the market is away in it. Including the day after pill. Easy access. Then outlaw abortions in all cases but rape and incest. Not sure how the notion to abort a possible human became a "right". I'm not being sarcastic, where does that "right" come from?

I am Christian but I can admit the catholic church's stance on contreception is very ignorant. Women definitely have the right, and should use birth control. Never understood that argument except to just have more babies that nobody can afford.

reply to post by KnawLick


If contraception was available to all, there would probably be very few abortions- only in the cases of rape and incest. The Catholic Church fighting against contraception will only lead to more abortions. They need to decide which is a bigger priority. In my opinion, contraception should be given to everyone, and as a result there will not be many abortions taking place.. Then outlaw religion and most of your rape and incest crimes will go away (Only Joking)..

I would say to everyone before any answers are stated, Please, Please, Please, pick up an embryology textbook, read it, find out what the scientific definition of an individual is, compare this to social biology and then tell me what your opinions are. Not the emotional BS that people spew without fact and figure. I am curious on your individual, educated opinion. Define life and individual for yourself, not what someone else stated, but your own bona fide opinion.
After you have developed your opinion throw it out, it's useless. no one cares if you care for another innocent human or if you disregard life as disposable trash, just as long as you keep buying the products that fund programs even Gacy would shutter and cringe at.

reply to post by athes


Definition of individual:

A single human being as distinct from a group, class, or family.

In the first trimester, embryo's can not exist outside the womb, they can not survive without the mother. Therefore they are not individuals. Life does not begin at fertilization, otherwise all women who have had more than one period are serial killers. Saying life begins at fertilization is almost as stupid as saying life begins at erection.
"Not all ejaculations deserve a name".
I hope I have made my point, now could you tell me how you stand on the issue, you didn't really go into detail..

reply to post by TheCelestialHuman


Here is my opinion:

I don't give a !$@!

And I'm sick of society talking about it. Same with homosexuality, get over it, we, as a nation, have far more important things to be discussing than the likes of abortion, sexual preference or any other asinine smoke and mirrors debate.

What it all boils down to is should society take away the rights of individuals to make their own moral choices?
Should society make all our moral decisions and let the government and the courts have final say ?
Or should we make our own choices and evolve as a people?

Do we believe as a race, we all need to be molded ? To be told how to think, feel , worship, buy, vote,raise our children and choose ?
Any and all moral decisions should be left to the individual.

Pro-life because all life begins with God as does all of creation. Humans are created in the image and likeness of God. You kill any one, you killed one of God's own children.

This society has done it's best to remove the sanctity of life. Life, which should be considered precious, instead is cheapened and disrespected - newscasters saying fallen soldiers aren't heroes, abortionists feeding fetuses to dogs. Goodnight, they have to make laws to forbid using fetuses in food?!! People have made themselves out to be judge and jury on who should live and die based on convenience.

Narcissism is so prevalent, it is no longer deemed a psychiatric disorder. Materialism is the new God and the "it is all about me" generations can't relate to anything that doesn't involve pleasure and prestige.

What's on your priority list?

Sacrifice and self-giving? You would think they are four letter words. Sorry, it this angers you then you must be who I am talking about.

When did people lose their conscience? Greed is raping and destroying our planet. Money is everything, people are tools.

If you haven't wept for aborted children you haven't really thought about them.

More people are becoming pro-life and they now out number the pro-choicers in the U.S. as education efforts are raising consciousness of this issue.

Do a google on: "former pro-lifer turned pro-choice". You will read lots of stories of people that were pro-choice and became pro-life, but after looking through the first four pages I could not find one story of a person who left the right-to-life movement for the right-to-choose. It was no surprise to me. I know that when the truth sinks in, it is undeniable. Too bad many people won't consider the issue - it's that narcissistic nature that is so prevalent, we can't get past the image in the mirror.,,, or, we don't want to know the truth because then we would have to change and lose some of our comfort zone.

Before I formed you in the womb, I knew you. - God

Sally, Betty, Bob and Tony may not care how you treat the unborn, but God takes it personally.

reply to post by OLD HIPPY DUDE

Any and all moral decisions should be left to the individual.

That baby you are contemplating killing is an individual. You are making a decision about her life without giving her any choice in the matter.

Why do women have sex with men who they don't want to risk getting pregnant by?
Just wondering because the male always takes the blame for "knocking the princess up"

Primarily I'm pro-choice.

But I have a really hard time with this issue.

On one hand, abortion does end a potential life.

On the other, it's only a tyranny that forces women to give birth, or have an abortion, for that matter.

I really don't know how to reconcile these two conflicting beliefs. Everybody else says you can either be pro-life or pro-choice, not both. The problem is though people have such an emotional interest in their stance on this issue that they really can't see the problems that their stance will cause.

I believe there is an unspoken mind-set that an unborn child is a potential human being, Wrong! It is a human being. It is not a dog, cat, plant or alien. It is a person. You don't become a child when you are born. You become a child when you were created.


"Ive noticed that everyone who is for abortion is already born." - Ronald Reagan

"Simple morality dictates that unless and until someone can prove the unborn human is not alive, we must give it the benefit of the doubt and assume it is (alive). And, thus, it should be entitled to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness." - Ronald Reagan 1982