I make my own liposomal vit C. This stuff is frickin AMAZING!!!!!

reply to post by MegaMind


But if you build collagen with excessive free radicals you get........ wrinkles...

I don't think the amount of VC suggested by the OP would cause excessive oxidation. My point was simply that you cannot rely on one vitamin to be a fix all. Why take only VC? Why not blend all kinds of veggies and fruits and get a large dose of everything you body wants/needs? Elevating one vitamins level over others without deficiency would not, imo, be beneficial.

reply to post by Rockpuck


If drinking a little Sunny D causes an overdose of C and it starts accumulating in the body as waste, what does that tell you?

That caveman did just fine with a few oranges, he didn't need to take 1000x as much because 998x of it gets wasted.

Just seems to me that people are treating this "totally unnatural" practice of using industrial refined vitamins way overboard, and are claiming it is "natural" when it is in fact, not natural at all.

If we actually needed this much to survive, we would be already dead or would have some natural source for it in nature.

Humanity has become lethargic and continuously looks for 1-trick-wonders. I hate to break the news to you but they do not exist. A healthy diet and regular exercise routine is one of the the only medications for obesity, heart disease, diabetes, and a host of other top killers of humanity. However, if you think you're going to get there by popping a few doses of liposomal vitamin C then you're insane. ATS is interesting in the ways that people flood to these kinds of topics. I would enjoy this thread a lot more if it didn't project anecdotal claims that sound rather simplistic, untested, and are claimed to be universal. I would consider this thread rather interesting if claims that one vitamin could rule the human body, out of many needed for proper bodily function.

Humanity is always after the quickest "fix"....entertainment at our fingertips, a path to simple health only being a gulp away, easy money through various schemes (stocks, pyramid schemes, at-home businesses). No wonder humanity is falling at the throne of anyone who can make them far-fetched promises. No wonder the laps of so few are full of wealth and splendor while so may wallow in a filth of their choosing.

If this post is an anecdote for anything it is an anecdote of the willingness of humanity to be slaves to anything easy.

reply to post by muzzleflash

Why do humans "NEED" these supplements? They don't, unless they have an ailment that needs to be resolved.

Exactly! And why take a synthetic form when you can get it from a whole food source?? We would be far healthier eating more fruits/veggies than powdered Vitamin C coated in soy fat.

reply to post by muzzleflash


The National Academy of Sciences recommend that primates in captivity receive large amounts of vitamin C daily for the best health.

Originally posted by Rockpuck
reply to post by MegaMind

 

But if you build collagen with excessive free radicals you get........ wrinkles...

I don't think the amount of VC suggested by the OP would cause excessive oxidation. My point was simply that you cannot rely on one vitamin to be a fix all. Why take only VC? Why not blend all kinds of veggies and fruits and get a large dose of everything you body wants/needs? Elevating one vitamins level over others without deficiency would not, imo, be beneficial.

Don't even need a blender.

Make a salad and let your teeth blend it.

No need for coal, oil, or nuclear power plants to supply electric to do the blending.

Cheapest solution is cheapest.

Originally posted by MegaMind
reply to post by muzzleflash

 

The National Academy of Sciences recommend that primates in captivity receive large amounts of vitamin C daily for the best health.

I recommend you feed primates decent food as well.

They might starve to death...

How do primates survive in the wild without our industry and technology?

Originally posted by Rockpuck
reply to post by muzzleflash

 

Why do humans "NEED" these supplements? They don't, unless they have an ailment that needs to be resolved.

Exactly! And why take a synthetic form when you can get it from a whole food source?? We would be far healthier eating more fruits/veggies than powdered Vitamin C coated in soy fat.

Agree 100%.

We are in the Twilight Zone for sure!

Originally posted by Rockpuck
reply to post by MegaMind

 

But if you build collagen with excessive free radicals you get........ wrinkles...

I don't think the amount of VC suggested by the OP would cause excessive oxidation. My point was simply that you cannot rely on one vitamin to be a fix all. Why take only VC? Why not blend all kinds of veggies and fruits and get a large dose of everything you body wants/needs? Elevating one vitamins level over others without deficiency would not, imo, be beneficial.

You make major assumptions there. Who said I don't supplement with other vitamins and minerals or eat a wide range of foods.

This thread is about Liposomal C

I know you can't get enough C from a single multivitamin pill or orange so I take more ...

If you guys think you can get by with oranges then be my guest ...

Read about Linus Pauling and his research. I did. I think he is on to something ...

You can't 'megadose' a water soluble vitamin.

Your body will take all of the ascorbic acid that it can and then it will simply flush what it can't.

Nothing in this thread is held up to empirical scrutiny, and should be viewed as suspicious until someone can post the physiology of it. Don't waste your money, friends.

Originally posted by Rockpuck
reply to post by getreadyalready

 

Uhg.. that's horrible brother.. I personally think Chemo is counter productive.. I do not understand the logic of curing the body by bringing your defenses to its knees. I know it's something I personally would never accept as treatment. If he's on chemo I don't think he could find a vitamin or mineral that would be excessive, he might as well take anything and everything he can.

I also think that each body is different and that we all require specifically different foods to better nourish our bodies because we are all different sizes, different builds, different metabolisms etc.. which is why I never believe in "super foods" having the same effect on everyone. Personally I have an extremely high metabolism, so I could consume all the nutrients in the World but if I'm not being active at the time I won't absorb much of it.

Rockpuck, your posts never cease to impress.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts on the matter, I can tell you are actually a bit more informed on the specifics and details than I am.

As usual I merely follow the ask questions/common sense approach, which has it's hits and misses.

I am very pleased to find that your assessment of 'health' is very similar to my own.
Foods / herbs = medicine
Industrial methods = counter-productive

Originally posted by zarp3333
At the dawn of 20th century, Vitamin C was the first miracle drug. It was discovered that macrophage immune system cells accumulate ascorbic acid to attack and dissolve invading pathogens. If sufficient accumulations exist prior or during an attack, there was no pathogen that could withstand the acid including the most virulent virus or bacteria.

Much later it was also discovered that ascorbic acid is transported to cells via the insulin/glucose transport system. If even moderate amounts of serum glucose were present and occupying the positions of the transport, the vitamins go in the toilet. Our current high sugar diets make most vitamin C useless. That's also why some people report bad results when trying to knock out a viral infection.

Last thing is the transport mechanism is slow but steady. Constant levels of VC are needed not one big dose

I am diabetic and have noticed that when my control is good, that raw fruit juices and vitamins seem to have added effect. The issue is that when things are going out of control, nothing seems to work. This could be because of low uptake of vitamin C.

I'll also join this little experiment (but I'll be using a blender rather than an ultrasonic cleaner) and will post results here too (including blood-glucose levels).

Originally posted by Furbs
You can't 'megadose' a water soluble vitamin.

Your body will take all of the ascorbic acid that it can and then it will simply flush what it can't.

Nothing in this thread is held up to empirical scrutiny, and should be viewed as suspicious until someone can post the physiology of it. Don't waste your money, friends.

So you agree that most likely 90% + of the excess is flushed without having any beneficial effects at all?

And that the same results can be achieved by merely eating decent foods that are a source of C? Or alternatively, taking a reasonable sized dosage of the supplement? (Dosage varies depending on metabolism or size of individual).

reply to post by MegaMind


But if you took a multivitamin with dinner (that has proteins and fats) you would absorb on average 90+% of the multivitamin... making liposomal VC redundant..

That's essentially what Liposomal VC is .. fat covered vitamins.. if you took a regular Vitamin C supplement while eating something with a 20% fat content you'd get the same exact effect..

Originally posted by muzzleflash

Originally posted by MegaMind
reply to post by muzzleflash

 

You are aware that humans and the great apes need vitamin C but are the only species that can't produce it on their own. Even insects make their own vitamin C. Not only do other animals make it but they make it in huge quantities compared with what we get from our diets.

*shrugs* .... Take it up with the creator ...

edit on 1-6-2012 by MegaMind because: (no reason given)

So apes go to the store, and buy supplements?

Or do they just eat good foods as a solution?

Why do humans "NEED" these supplements? They don't, unless they have an ailment that needs to be resolved.
The only reason they are on the market today in our society is because half our food is complete garbage and doesn't have the necessary amount found normally in nature.

How the hell did caveman do so well fighting mammoths and saber tooth tigers, then running 20miles barefoot in the forest? He didn't have these supplements...

Answer the dang question. Answer it sufficiently and I could change my position, but as of now I am still somewhat on the fence about the need to take anything like this at all.

Caveman ate the meat of the beasts that ate all of the wonderful wild grasses and plants that were teeming with nutritional value. Much like Native Americans who relied mostly on the buffalo, who ate the wild grasses, etc.. It translated into high quality healthy meat.

Look at what we feed our cattle. It's not beef from the range anymore. These beasts hardly move or are injected with fast growing hormones and in the last days of their lives are fattened up with corn to tip the scales.

You are what you eat, and what you eat ate, and so on...

reply to post by muzzleflash



So, what's the big deal to you, if those of us who want to give this a try, do it. It's not costing you a cent. And, you have no better conclusive information than we do. At least we are fact gathering, first hand. No skin off your nose.

I notice, that in threads like this, after it's been rolling along all fine and dandy, there are always a few naysayers who jump in pages down the line, to bash those who've been participating in a friendly manner. Why is that, I wonder.

Des

I bought some of that liposomal vitamin C couple of years ago when I got a circular in the mail advertising it. It sounded like the greatest thing since sliced bread and I was looking forward to an increased level of energy and health.

Seems like it starts to break down in the small intestines instead of the stomach. This caused intestinal bleeding! I only took it for about 2-3 days in the recommended amounts before seeing such alarming symptoms.
I take my vitamin C in the form of rosehips and green groceries now.

Be careful with liposomal vitamin C and if you notice any rectal bleeding or if you begin to throw up blood, quit taking it immediately.

Originally posted by Rockpuck
reply to post by MegaMind

 

But if you took a multivitamin with dinner (that has proteins and fats) you would absorb on average 90+% of the multivitamin... making liposomal VC redundant..

That's essentially what Liposomal VC is .. fat covered vitamins.. if you took a regular Vitamin C supplement while eating something with a 20% fat content you'd get the same exact effect..

The amount of C in a typical multivitamin is small - just look at the pill sizes of a C supplement.

Also I doubt rubbing butter onto a vitamin C pill is going to make it easier for it to penetrate a cell wall. That might have something to do with the size and the process of digestion ...

reply to post by Furbs

You can't 'megadose' a water soluble vitamin.

Actually you can.. when it oxidizes. You won't feel it at once.. but over time, you would see excessive oxidation plays havoc on the body (excessive sun exposure for instance increases the rate of oxidation which is why sun exposure damages skin ...

Originally posted by MegaMind


I know you can't get enough C from a single multivitamin pill or orange so I take more ...

That's the thing, I don't know that at all.
I am very unsure about it.

I just can't figure out how apes and caveman could have survived so healthy in nature all of these millennium without having anything as a source for vitamins other than the foods/plants growing around them in the forest.

It would seem to me that whatever they needed to get by, is similar to what I need to get by assuming that we are physiologically similar in countless respects.

And if 1 orange isn't enough, why not eat 2 or 3? How many is required to reach the necessary limits? Do we have any data to help us gain insight about what levels we are talking about here?

Of course every fruit/veggi has a different concentration of various vitamins. A grapefruit and a apricot will have totally different makeup. So some have less and others have more, obviously. We need to take that into consideration as well in our calculations.

My hypothesis is that we are overestimating our actual biological need for this chemical. And that by researching our history and reviewing any related scientific studies should aid us in coming to this conclusion. I could be wrong but I feel pretty safe putting my $ down here.