I make my own liposomal vit C. This stuff is frickin AMAZING!!!!!

a reply to: RedCairo

Thanks Red,

Good to know....

On the other hand I've kept the Lecithin and Vit C, Glutathione, and Enhanced Sodium R-ALA (all separate solutions in the dark cupboard for up to 5 days with no apparent degradation...lecithin smells fine, Vit C looks and appears fine but oxidation is most likely occurring as well as with the Glutathione and the R-ALA, I would expect....

My refrigerated solutions are usually consumed within a week....

I think that a refrigerated Liposomal solution is protected from oxidation by being sequestered within the lecithin....

Though I don't understand the lecithin not separating....I'm trying to remember where I read that sometimes there's a tendency for the Liposomal solution to coagulate the lipospheres...think it was the solution concentration....
(Sorry if I may have gone astray here....)

Regards,
Tarasco

a reply to: Tarasco
Tarasco, can you point me to your sources for the glutathione and R-ALA?

I once read that glutathione is mostly inert by the time it reaches a consumer so taking it's a bit pointless. Have you found otherwise -- do you get a clear sense of effect with it? What about with the R-ALA?

By that I mean, if one starts taking a decent amount of liposomal C (for me that's like 8-12g daily over the course of a day) for several days when they haven't been prior, you CAN feel and tell the difference.* So I'm wondering if that is so for the others.

Do they fully dissolve in distilled water, really? This makes me think that d-Ribose (a cell sugar used especially by the heart, which I take in a suppshake) might be a liposomal candidate.

Do you blend the three or do them individually?

RC

(* Same thing with vitamin D3. When I first took about 15Kiu of vitamin D3 (from fish liver source), about 8 hours later I realized that my entire "underlying sense of well-being" had profoundly improved. As if I had not even known that I was a bit chemically depressed before that, until it was gone. Some things, like D3 and C, if you suddenly take a lot of them, and you were low on them, you really can tell the difference. This is unlike most supplements which people may or may not actually know are helping, at least not without a sort of long term difference.)

By the way, and this makes me feel like the stupidest person alive, but all this time I have been suffering the vile taste (to me anyway) of the lecithin from this formula, which for me is so bad that it seriously interferes with me being able to ingest nearly the amount I want, short of superhuman willpower.

Then just yesterday it finally occurred to me to get a squeeze-bottle with a straw -- something I could literally just squeeze down the back of my throat rather than having to drink normally.

Like this, just a few bucks: www.amazon.com...
(image: ecx.images-amazon.com... )

Doh.

a reply to: RedCairo

Hi again, Red....

Glutathione: purebulk.com...

Enhanced Sodium R-Lipoate (NaRLA): geronova.com...

NOTE: The R-ALA and the Na (Sodium) RLA are two forms of the Alpha Lipoic Acid...in brief, the R-ALA tends to polymerize into yellow plasticky gunk when it hits water (it's very heat and air sensitive) while the Enhanced Sodium RLA is very stable and dissolves well....AND apparently is much more bioavailable....

I bought the R-ALA from PureBulk and it polymerized from the git-go and they sent me a free replacement which polymerized as well....

Then I very recently discovered the latest version, the Enhanced Sodium R-ALA...$100 for 100 grams....it's expensive...but....it's just been developed so one hopes the price will drop in a while....

NOTES:

1. I haven't seen any references to Glutathione becoming inert...I just scanned thru this Wikipedia entry for Glutathione and saw no reference to that... en.m.wikipedia.org...

2. I get no clear sense of effect with the Liposomal Glutathione OR the Liposomal NaR-ALA...I'm taking them on faith....
The Glutathione for the liver (Hepatitis C) and the NaR-ALA for Diabetes 2....

This "faith", though comes from my years of experience with Ascorbic Acid (Vit C) (mixed with baking soda...Sodium Ascorbate) and now Liposomal Vit C....I don't get colds any more and have less pronounced reactions to ambient chemicals (I have Multiple Chemical Sensitivity Syndrome... en.m.wikipedia.org... )

3. They both dissolve fully in my store bought Reverse Osmosis water....see above differentiation between the "regular" R-ALA and the Enhanced Na R-ALA....

4. D-ribose is water soluble so is a likely candidate for the Liposomal treatment....

5. I take them individually but you can bet I've considered mixing them all together...! For ease of preparation and storage....

6. That's 15 X 1000 IU...? And here I thought I was being a adventurous taking 5X 1000IU....How long have you been taking that dose...? I think I'll try 15,000, too....or maybe start with 10,000....

The only thing that had such an effect on my well being was Evening Primrose Oil capsules: 6 X 500 mg daily....but I don't get that sense of well being anymore

Maybe I should up the dosage there, too....think I will to 12 X 500 mg daily....

Tarasco

By the way....

I found that in attempting to clean the polymerized R-Ala from the blender blades I used Baking Soda in H2O solution and it cleared the polymer right away....

Then the coin dropped and I tried making the solution in a Baking Soda/H2O solution ( much like the Liposomal C mixed with Baking Soda: Liposomal Sodium Ascorbate)....and it dissolved with blending...!

So....if anyone has a package of R-ALA that polymerizes...try adding some to a Baking Soda solution....

No, I don't remember how much I used of the Baking Soda....

Tarasco

And...One More Thing...(Ty Mr Jobs)

The lecithin....perhaps you are sensitive to it....

I tolerate Soy Lecithin but Sunflower Lecithin makes me feel ill....

Try experimenting....

I've seen references to egg yolk lecithin, too....

I get 3 lb containers of granular Soy Lecithin from Swanson....nice nutty aroma when dry...

All Non-GMO, of course

(I think we've probably been thru this part before)

Good description which could be missed as it's directed at 'Formulators

'http://geronova.com/formulators/

Thanks Tarasco, very helpful.

I've taken upwards of 20g ascorbic a day via the DIY-C formula but my goal at some point is actually to get about 32g daily just for temporary periods like 10 days every 40.

The only thing I have noticed is that it's important one not screw it up: I was once taking about 15g daily for a short time, and then ran out and abruptly was taking zero. As you know, that actually sends you negative/scorbutic. Just then a friend came over with her daughter, they were both still a bit ill, and I almost immediately had it, I made myself horribly vulnerable. That was stupid and my own fault. So the only issue with high dose is that it needs to be gradually backed off, not abruptly, so one needs to plan ahead.

Luckily, I don't have any issue with the 'results' of the sunflower lecithin, merely the vileness of the taste.

I do archetypes work and tend to dream related to my body often. A previous double-dream issue related to gmo soy (as the source of rennet for the majority of cheese in the us/uk now - who knew??) put me off soy in any form, even though honestly I had nothing major against it in small quantities and had never noticed any personal reaction to it. I'm sure it's fine for most people but my dreams made me unwilling to chance soy. Which is too bad because it's cheaper!

As for egg lecithin I cannot find it in powder/bulk form, only in caps so far, to try it.

*

I'm getting ready to make another double-batch (which is very little, I usually make a ton at once) this weekend and I also have a bottle of C and a bottle of G in the fridge that I got from amazon, the brand I mentioned above. I'm planning a '10 day frenzy' of mass nutrition shortly here they are to be part of, along with the DIY-C.

Some time ago, people had a couple ideas mentioned on this thread:

1. That the 'soak water' for the lecithin first have AA dissolved in it. To see if the amount of AA in the overall formula could be increased.

2. One guy has an added-alcohol approach that he said allowed a vastly higher AA ratio.

Has anybody tried these? I'd really like to hear the results.

I'm going to try #1 above and then add potassium bicarbonate to the finished formula, to react with any "un-emulsified/un-encapsulated ascorbic." That should resolve any issues that would make the greater 'loose' AA amount too sour to drink, plus add potassium which I'm working on in my diet, plus increase the absorption % of the 'loose' portion of the AA in the formula. The only concern is that of course, the more 'loose' AA which might be in the formula, the less formula one can take at one without bowel effect. My body has asked me (twice) to take more of it more often in smaller doses though, so perhaps it would be good for me to have to anyway.

I'm not trying #2 because I'm trying to save my liver and I just don't see how adding a ton of alcohol to my DIY would be good. I can see it for the commercial versions but then, we're talking about vastly less needed per g of AA due to the difference in manufacturing, than the DIY approach.

I might actually try some d-Ribose. Must figure out how much of it dissolves in how much water.

RC

a reply to: RedCairo

Re: Ribose amount....

What I've been doing is to use the same amounts of of Na-R-ALA and Glutathione as I do the Ascorbic Acid....I.e. 1 tablespoon of AA to 1/2 cup of H2O to 1 cup of Lecithin solution....and I'm not to happy with this guess work on my part...

If you have any ideas on more rigorous measuring I'm all ears....

Thanks
Tarasco

a reply to: neotech1neothink

Nice to hear so many people are trying this! Had just read about it on the web and was wondering about it. Am going to go ahead and try it! Seems to me that if many of you are taking large doses and not getting the runs, then the Vitamin C is truly changed and encapsulated and therefore absorbed better.

The commercial Liposomal C is around $1 per dose - so just too expensive! I had been thinking about trying the same thing on turmeric also - so nice to hear it seems to be working. (Be careful though if you are diabetic or close to it as combined with meds could lower your blood sugar too much. Or maybe even on it's own if it's encapsulated. )

Soy is a very common item that people are allergic too - so those having a reaction - could well be the soy.

I have read that the liposomal vitamin c is more potent than the IV version as more of it is absorbed. Am going to order the stuff and get going!

I found many links showing how to make LVC without the expensive sonic machine!

You can apparently use a stick/immersion blender for the same results:

================

You can find recipes on the web but they all call for using an ultrasonic jewelry cleaner which requires you to watch it constantly because the timer only goes to 2 minutes. I don't have time or energy to baby sit a machine. In talking to a friend online about this, she told me she belonged to a group where someone proved a stick (immersion) blender gave the same results as the machine and requires very little effort. I have used this method to make liposomal glutathione and after less than a week, I do feel a difference. FYI: I accidentally bought buffered vitamin C powder and it will NOT go into a liposomal state. It looks OK for a little while, then separates. I even tried mixing it for 6 minutes but although not quite as bad, it still didn't all stay mixed in. Make sure you buy pure ascorbic acid powder..

With this method you get about 75% encapsulation vs 90% on the store bought stuff. Basically take a little more and you are still saving huge amounts of money.
This makes about 14 oz of product.
Vitamin C
3 level tablespoons of soy lecithin (45cc). Make sure it is GMO free and organic if possible.
1 level tablespoon ascorbic acid powder (15cc)

Dissolve the lecithin in 1 cup (240cc) warm, NOT HOT, water, preferably distilled. You can use cold water but it dissolves much faster if slightly warmed. If the water is hot, it will clump rather than dissolve.

Dissolve the ascorbic acid in 1/2 cup warm water, preferably distilled.

Pour both solutions together into a wide mouth mason jar or other container that can accommodate the stick blender.

Blend until it forms a cloudy, homogeneous mixture in about 2 minutes.
Refrigerate and you're done. You will have to calculate the dose you are taking by the amount of Vitamin C in the product you use. For example, I bought a an ascorbic acid powder that will give me 12 grams of Vitamin C in 14 oz of solution. When I make this I am going to add enough extra Vitamin C to make 1g/oz.

Glutathione
Method is exactly the same as above:
3 level tablespoons soy lecithin
1 tablespoon or 7 grams of glutathione powder
Proceed exactly as above.

I could not find an affordable glutathione powder so I ended up buying 500mg capsules and opening them.
Hint: I have arthritic hands and opening the caps was a pain. I usually make a double batch. Well, today, I put the capsules in a baggie and beat the capsules with a small glass jar. It crumbled the capsules. I just poured it all in a large tea strainer and shook the powder into a bowl. Voila...just a few minutes and no pain Hope this helps someone else.

Hint#2: Decided pounding the capsules was a pain in the butt too, saw some kitchen shears on the counter and a light bulb went off. I just snipped the bottom of the caps off and shook the contents out into a jar. Simplest solution yet!

One affordable source of clean ascorbic acid powder: www.iherb.com...
Here's why I chose this one:
We use only 100% pure pharmaceutical grade L-ascorbic acid USP-FCC* (C6H8O6) which contains no corn residue, plant antigens, or protein impurities. Individuals allergic to corn or yeast can use this product with confidence. pH 2.1† Made without Gluten or GMOs

==============

Phew, I was stalling because I was hesitating to buy that 100$ machine. NOT ANYMORE!

What you get when you blend it is mostly emulsified ascorbic. Which is fine and good. The peyer's patches may absorb some of this, improving the digestibility. Still an excellent supplement.

What you get when you blend it and control the temperature properly is a combination of emulsified and liposomal ascorbic.* Which is fine and good. A somewhat better supplement, especially if you want to feed/heal your liver.

What you get when you blend it and control the temperature properly and then sonicate it is still a combination of emulsified and liposomal ascorbic*, but a much greater % of it is likely liposomal, and the size of the liposomes are likely far smaller. That means some % of them will not be broken up at the liver and can be directly sent out to the body tissues. A fantastic supplement for any reason.

* there is always some % both unencapsulated and unemulsified.

Commercially made liposomal vitamin C will have a much higher encapsulation % and usually an overall smaller liposome size. So one could take more ascorbic with less digestive results from whatever the body must process/digest.

DIY made liposomal (the temperature/blend/sonicate approach) has a vastly larger quantity of lecithin involved. On one hand this means more to drink (and taste, it's pretty ick) and that there is going to be more digestive result than the commercially produced, if one takes a lot all at one time, it'll be clear. On the other hand, lecithin is probably one of the healthiest supplements around, so having a lot more of it is actually probably a good thing. If one is willing to take the DIY-C in small doses through the day rather than larger doses, so even the % unencapsulated isn't enough to matter, it works out great.

FWIW.

I've been making and taking the liposomal vitamin c for just on a year now and have never felt better.
I normally make my own distilled water but have just had ten litres of ready made distilled water delivered.
Does anyone know if this will be just the same or is there a difference ?
On a side note.
My wife burnt her finger on the cooker the other week.
I wiped some of the mixture on the burn for around a minute and the pain from the burn disappeared.
Great for hangovers too !

I'm just going to add a few points that are responses to previous posts on the thread.

1. LIQUID LECITHIN. This works ok but you have to blend (in the water) and then soak the lecithin at least as long as you do the powder stuff if not more. I used it at first, till I found sunflower lecithin in powder. The liquid stuff is like blackstrap molasses except stickier and will make you feel like a 3 year old, since trying to wash it off your hands just makes it worse. The only sane way to use it is to measure your water (I use a bullet high-speed blender) into a blender cup (it will want to stick to it, so may take blend-shake-blend-shake a bit to get most of it off the sides), then put it on a scale and tare to zero; get a knife, and then gently pour in the liquid lecithin until you get the desired (by weight) amount, using the edge of the knife to catch/cut-off the tiny bit of flow as you stop pouring from the jar. Blend the crap out of it then let it sit for quite awhile (I did it overnight) in the fridge. One reason I like the lecithin powder better, aside from the better cost (both direct and shipping) and less mess, is that it can soak for less time and still work just as well. I didn't notice any particular difference between the two otherwise. Note: I've always only used the sunflower version of lecithin.

2. RATIOS. 3:1 lecithin:ascorbic is the default but being an idiot who has to learn everything the hard way, I am still experimenting, such as with adding AA to water, dissolving it, then using that water as the lecithin soak water, and other approaches. My latest experiment is in the fridge, awaiting the light of the moon for the ritual. I am joking. Will report on results when I have them.

3. TEMPERATURE. Ascorbic starts degrading at a temp I can't seem to verify but some say about 157 F. However, lecithin lipospheres don't "open" allegedly until about 110 F. This is only my belief, but I think the original formula for DIY was based on two things: a) a very powerful blender, for a 'slam-encapsulation' attempt, and b) a blending time and machine that actually warmed up the lecithin enough to cause the lipsomes to open up. As it cooled, would then encapsulate its liquid medium. Then sonicating (in a perfect world) would break up and reform those lipospheres all over until there were far more of them and they were far smaller. Anyway that is the logic I have used behind the variety of approaches I've tried with it -- temperature seems important. I think some people chance on the heat-but-not-too-hot temp just as part of process -- long blending times, or a sonicator that gets fairly warm, etc. I think not having heat involved might not be so good, as those lipospheres do need to open to begin with (though the sonicating will force some of that).

4. FOAM from bicarbonates. (Trivia note: I use potassium bicarbonate as I need more potassium and not so much sodium.) There was a report to the contrary on the thread -- I totally believe them -- but in my and others' stuff I've heard of I have never once known a formula to not have a "flash-foam" when bicarbonate hits the free acid in the unemulsified/unencapsulated portion of the formula, which usually very quickly dies down. Dr. Bradley's original suggestion for measuring actually had the person measuring after 30 seconds or something like that. So thinking that a flash foam means it didn't work is not right, that is actually the more common result.

5. pH READINGS. Encapsulated AA is inaccessible -- think of the lipospheres like little chunks of gravel having no pH effect on the water they are sitting within. Whether there are a few or a lot of them, the water itself they are 'in' would not change. So if you measure the pH of your formula, you are only going to get "the pH of the unencapsulated AA" -- likely diluted somewhat by water (so slightly higher than AA plain). It is going to be the same pH whether it is 20% or 50% unencapsulated (possibly varying only by quantity of extra water diluting it) because as noted, "all there is to measure" is the unencapsulated part. The lecithin encapsulated/emulsified part is not "diluting" the unencapsulated part as water would; like gravel it is simply not involved in the measure at all.

In order to get a comparison reading you'd need to have a plain AA in water control, and then you would need to take the same quantity of each (say 50g formula, and 50g AA-water) in separate glasses, and measure pH, so there is a baseline for each. Then ADD the same quantity of distilled water (say 50g) into each of those glasses, then measure again. The test is the "comparison of change" between the two. This is still a poor measure but it's better than the alternative. The idea is that in a given amount of formula 20% unencapsulate is less 'quantity' of AA than 40% unencapsulated, so when you mix with water and then measure again, the more 'encapsulated,' the less AA remaining in that overall formula measure, and hence the more diluted (the more the pH will raise) by the water addition. The point of the control water+AA is to see the difference between how much the same quantity of water-dilution affects plain AA-water, vs. the same amount of formula-water. The greater the difference, the better the 'inaccessibility %' of AA in the formula.

RC

originally posted by: lambros56
IMy wife burnt her finger on the cooker the other week.
I wiped some of the mixture on the burn for around a minute and the pain from the burn disappeared.

I'm going to try this next time I burn myself, which because I am a kitchen moron happens far too often. I have previously used DMSO which works great, and the kind mixed with aloe works great too, but the problem is, you need to apply it every time you start to get a little pain, and the skin absorbs it, and after some time of constant repeat application, the good news is you don't have to deal with pain, the bad news is the skin in that area's getting pretty damn unhappy (or if using the gel, weird) about it. Lecithin or DIY-C (so, also ascorbic) would be interesting. I nearly always have plenty of the stuff in the fridge so next time my love for coconut oil and my wok conspire to kill me, I'll put some DIY-C in a cup and keep applying it for several hours and see what happens. Thanks for the idea.

I just made my first stick blender-only LVC solution EVER! (woot woot)

After cooling it a bit in the fridge, it didn't separate. Yes!

I took 15 ml/1 tablespoon, quickly washed down with juice.

I hope it has encapped well even without a sonic machine, according
to the recipe I posted earlier.

I pray I'll see the LVC benefits soon.

UPDATE: the bottom of the solution is a bit darker than the rest maybe 1/10 of it.

Has it separated ie not effective anymore?

originally posted by: goeasy
UPDATE: the bottom of the solution is a bit darker than the rest maybe 1/10 of it.

Has it separated ie not effective anymore?

Not sure, 1/10 is actually quite a bit.

A small amount (not 1/10th though) being dark brown for example, means that you have a little bit more lecithin (the brown) than was needed, which is fine actually, it is a good supplement on its own. You can mix it back in, or drink it when you get to it, or not.

If it separates, you will usually know because there will be a layer at the top that is overwhelmingly ascorbic and will be so sour it makes your eyes cross. Sometimes there is some small % that will come across like this (it floats to the top if the formula has been sitting) but is usually just a very tiny part -- gone in a drink or two, with the rest being fine.

If the lipsomal spheres have opened up and dumped out their ascorbic, it may be that the formula got warm enough for that to happen. In that case you could just toss it back into the sonicator for another long series (don't let it get warm during that process, big breaks between cycles if that is happening) and then store it in the fridge.

I actually seemed to have the best results with all of this during winter -- due to a tragedy with my climate control, I'm using space heaters, so my living room where I seldom am is insanely cold like in the 40s to low 50s F during winter -- and that's where I run the sonicator.

a reply to: RedCairo

I sonicate my Vit C & sodium Bicarb all the time w/o a problem.
I still use the extra Vit C per Julie's recipe...
I use
Liq Sunflower Lecithin 8 tbs per 2 cups distilled water
Vit C 6 tab per 2 cups distilled water
Sodium Bicarb 2 tabs per 2 cups distilled water

I dissolve the Vit C & Sodium Bicarb in the water ...
heating the Vit C solution to 90 to 100 deg F...
then slowly, slowly, blending the 2...
mean while the Sunflower Lecithin is liquid so I heated the water to 120F &
mixed the lecithin...poured into UC & actually ran a 1 or 2 times while mixing.

I have never soaked the lecithin...is that really necessary? I use a stick blender
& mix the Lecithin solution, our into the sonicator. Then I mix the Vit C & Sodium Bicarb
together with the stick blender & then I pour & stir it into the lecithin in the sonicator.

I have not had any separation issues...I do want to make sure it is strong & lipo
enough for maximum benefits. I store in green wine bottles in the fridge.

My Blue Border Collie in my avatar just turned 14 yrs old & was recently diagnosed
with rectal cancer. I started him on the regime...2 oz in the morning & 2 oz in the
evening. He has been on for a week now. I was told I would be lucky to have him
for 4 to 6 more months. Well he is extremely healthy other wise...xrays looked like
a 2 yr old, no bridging or arthritis in the spine, nothing, they looked perfect & same
with both sides of the lungs & heart. He walks 4 miles a day with me & then works
sheep. So the Vit C may prolong his life a little longer, we will see. I know it isn't
going to hurt him.
We did not do blood work, he is healthy & happy & I will do what Ii can to keep
him that way. I've been a Lic Vet tech since 1995 with 14 yrs in ER.

Thanks for sill participating in this thread! I started coming down with a cold on
Sun morning & it was escalating. I started with 3 (3oz) shots on Sun & today I have
had 4 (3 oz) shots. I feel better than I did on Sun & it has not gotten any worse.
This is the 1st time I have faced an illness since March 2012 when I started making
the Lipo C. I have NOT been sick once. So hopefully I still won't be if I can keep
fighting the cold that is trying to come on...LOL!


Cheers
Ektar

a reply to: Ektar

Ektar...remind me again... how much have you been taking every day?

I've just passed the two year mark on Lipo Vit C - Not a single sniffle or ANYTHING for 2 years! Amazing. Considering the prior 15 years were annual flues, bronchitis, ear infections and pneumonia. Every year.

Plus cured my husband's severe allegies and hayfever. People keep asking what I do that my face skin is so smooth.

I'm just curious what other amazing things it's doing inside my body that I don't see.

Sorry to hear about your dog he sure is beautiful. Wouldn't it be nice to find out that the Vit C is having some positive results? As you know the whole original Lipo Vit C was started by Horse vets...

I'm also on the VitaminCFoundation.org forums and there was a post there by a vet who has used vitamin C on animals for 30 years... I don't remember everything he said in detail... but it was amazingly positive.