After Suicide Try Kills Fetus, Woman Faces Life in Prison

After Suicide Try Kills Fetus, Woman Faces Life in Prison

www.newser.com

Bei Bei Shuai, a Chinese immigrant living in Indiana, was distraught when her married lover and the father of her unborn child left her.

She took rat poison, leaving a suicide note...friends took her to the hospital, where doctors saved her life—but could not do the same for her baby, Angel, who was delivered prematurely and died days later in Shuai's arms. Now Shuai faces 45 years to life in prison, after Indiana decided

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www.guardian.co.uk

So, abortions are ok - if you pay the doctor.

And if you're a convicted pedophile - you get what? A slap on the wrists and counseling?

A murderer? Maybe fifteen years.

But if you're a woman in distress who's so compromised by a hopeless who in a moment of desperation and mental stress tries to commit suicide, the fetus dies and she's facing 45 years? Is facing a sentence worse than a serial killer?

Her lawyer insists Shuai was mentally ill at the time she attempted to take her life, and calls the case "absolutely frightening" and a slippery slope

Of course... But read on...

But the prosecutor insists Shuai's note is proof that she was not "trying to take her own life," but rather that she was specifically "trying to take the life of her fetus,"

Which again - would be 'ok' if she paid a doctor? But not on her own? Or in a moment of complete loss and desperation?

peace

www.newser.com
(visit the link for the full news article)

"There is no doubt that Shuai was suffering from a severe mental illness," her defence lawyer Linda Pence said. She first met the defendant when she was in the mental wing, a few days after Angel died. "I personally observed a very depressed woman, a grief-stricken individual."

There is her defense in nutshell.

I doubt any jury (that is fully informed) would fail to note the exigent circumstances and do whatever they can to reduce this nonsensical charge to 'time served.'

.... unless of course, we start sending doctors and other abortive mothers to prison.

In my opinion; this is another distraction piece. They will get more outrageous as the political games proceed.

This one is going to be interesting to follow. Unless the prosecution backs off I see this going to the SCOTUS. The baby was less than a month from full term. BUT as stated in the article what about pregnant women that smoke? Drink? Do drugs? Not to mention abortion. Was she in a suicidal state? Did she think, "I'll get rid of this and he'll come back?" Interesting case.

reply to post by Maxmars

I doubt any jury (that is fully informed) would fail to note the exigent circumstances and do whatever they can to reduce this nonsensical charge to 'time served.'

I was thinking along the same lines - but get this (from the same link):

Shuai spent 435 days in prison and is now out on bail and wearing an ankle bracelet in advance of her December trial...

She already served time - before a trial?

There's got to be more to this or it's just 'scarier' all the way around than we can even imagine.

peace

That is not how the prosecutor saw it. For the first time in Indiana's 196-year history, the state has applied felony charges against a woman that hold Shuai criminally liable for the outcome of her pregnancy. Earlier this month the Indiana supreme court declined to hear the case, rendering a 3 December murder trial almost inevitable.

source

Declined to hear the case? But she'd already been in jail over a year?

Lynn Paltrow, head of National Advocates for Pregnant Women that is co-counsel in Shuai's defence, said: "It's an irony that the US has paid such close attention to violations of human rights in China while at the same time Indiana has absolutely deprived a woman who is a legal immigrant from China of her constitutional human rights."

The only hope for Shuai to avoid a murder trial is if the prosecutor, Terry Curry, decides to drop the charges. There is little chance of that, given his firm belief that he is following the correct path.

"It's my job to enforce the criminal code as enacted by our legislature and that's what our legislature has determined," he said.

I've got to do some more searching. Something has to be 'off' here...

peace

This is ridiculous. If this is allowed to stand then what is next for pregnant women? This woman did a deliberate act, i get that, but what about accidents? Will women be charged for those too if the fetus dies?

Originally posted by Maxmars

"There is no doubt that Shuai was suffering from a severe mental illness," her defence lawyer Linda Pence said. She first met the defendant when she was in the mental wing, a few days after Angel died. "I personally observed a very depressed woman, a grief-stricken individual."

There is her defense in nutshell.

I doubt any jury (that is fully informed) would fail to note the exigent circumstances and do whatever they can to reduce this nonsensical charge to 'time served.'

.... unless of course, we start sending doctors and other abortive mothers to prison.

In my opinion; this is another distraction piece. They will get more outrageous as the political games proceed.

with all due respect to you, maxmars...i think there are millions of people that have bought into the "abortion as murder" diatribe, and that this women may well be convicted of murder. these people have stopped at nothing to get their way. murdering doctors, bombing clinics, commiting assaults, all this is still happening.

The crux of the matter:

Originally posted by antonia
If this is allowed to stand then what is next for pregnant women? This woman did a deliberate act, i get that...

That is what the prosecution is going to base it's case on. The defense will say that she was not "of right mind". Unless there is something out there that is not reported, the defense will win this case.

Originally posted by antonia
This is ridiculous. If this is allowed to stand then what is next for pregnant women? This woman did a deliberate act, i get that, but what about accidents? Will women be charged for those too if the fetus dies?

well, YES!!...do you think these people are joking? they want forced birth, no matter if it kills the mother, they don't care about the mother's life...she is a throw-away piece of meat vessel that contains a baby, that's it

What she did was wrong. But I think she's been punished enough already. (instead of a quick death from her rash decision, she had to hold her live baby and watch it die because of her mistake, sounds worse than prison to me) She needs help, not prison.

Man, the hits just keep on coming! From the maniac chewing off a man's face in Miami, dismembered body parts arriving at the Conservative Party headquarters in Canada, and now this? I don't know what to make of it? It is a tragedy any way you want to look at it. Tragic for the mother, the child, and her family.

Was she of sound and rational mind when the incident occurred or was she mentally unstable? I am fairly certain all that will come out in trial, and after further evaluation by psychiatric professionals. I would hope someone in her predicament would go for help first or seek consul from people she trusts in her inner circle.

To me, the case seems fairly cut and dry. Although the murder charge is a little much considering the circumstances surrounding the case. She attempted to commit suicide and was with child. Unless my logic is off, the child or fetus is intrinsically linked to the mother. The mother dies and so does the child. I do not believe she had the intent to murder her unborn child? I am only speculating because it has not gone to trial. If I were the prosecutor? This case would be tried as an incident of involuntary manslaughter and not murder. Murder is really stretching it, because premeditation has to be proven. Moreover, the baby was born and died afterwards. That could pose another potential road block to the prosecution's case. The prosecution has to prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that her attempted suicide directly led to the child's death after being born.

Some have already said that this particular case could end up at the Supreme Court. I would have to agree. I hope the woman is treated fairly and is treated as innocent until proven guilty. Lets not sensationalize or politicize this incident before we know all the details. Patience is a virtue, and until a verdict is render by a jury? This woman has my benefit of a doubt and will remain innocent.

I agree. Its not first degree murder, and yet she is being made an example of. Because she excercised choice, and we're not allowed to. In reality, people need to work hard and rally to overturn that decision and fire the judge, he's obviously a very crooked sadistic piece of work.

Originally posted by Maxmars

"There is no doubt that Shuai was suffering from a severe mental illness," her defence lawyer Linda Pence said. She first met the defendant when she was in the mental wing, a few days after Angel died. "I personally observed a very depressed woman, a grief-stricken individual."

There is her defense in nutshell.

I doubt any jury (that is fully informed) would fail to note the exigent circumstances and do whatever they can to reduce this nonsensical charge to 'time served.'

.... unless of course, we start sending doctors and other abortive mothers to prison.

In my opinion; this is another distraction piece. They will get more outrageous as the political games proceed.

A distraction piece it may be, but you know what, we need to get distracted for every single person is the center of existence and a terrible thing happening to one is equal to it happening to everyone. So people have to work to get her out and the judge out as well.

reply to post by Unity_99


In all fairness, you are correct. We do need to be distracted from the mundane to address tragedies like this.

Unfortunately, considering how fast these things become less "newsworthy" - in a few months, no one will remember.... though I will be glad to be proven incorrect.

Have to agree that this is 9 kinds of messed up abortion is legal and yet the result was the same, and they want to throw her in prison?

No they shouldn't tell me where the high ground is for the law to call you a murder and they made it legal.

Sad all the way around.

reply to post by neo96


"9 kinds of messed up?" Kinda reminds me of what Carlin says about prostitution. "Sex is legal. Selling is legal. Why isn't selling sex legal?" He also said, "It's a great country but it's a strange culture." This kinda proves that.

she should get counseling and maybe a treatment center. this is what a police state looks like

Originally posted by intrepid
The crux of the matter:

Originally posted by antonia
If this is allowed to stand then what is next for pregnant women? This woman did a deliberate act, i get that...

That is what the prosecution is going to base it's case on. The defense will say that she was not "of right mind". Unless there is something out there that is not reported, the defense will win this case.

I hope so, because honestly this is just going to go way too far. I can envision some situation in which a woman get's into a car accident and is held liable for the death of her fetus.

There is a lot of discussion here on whether she was in her right mind (whatever that means legally). Something significant in the article is:

Curry pointed to a suicide note that Shuai left the former boyfriend in which she wrote that she was "taking this baby with me".

"What we allege is that her actions were directed specifically at the unborn child. It's not that she was trying to take her own life, it was that she was trying to take the life of her foetus," Curry said.

Whether she should be allowed to kill her unborn child, or punished for it, is one question. But it seems as though she intended to do it, and had the composure to write down that she intended to kill her child.

(Just had a thought. Zimmerman will only be able to claim self-defense if he can prove he met the requirements, lawfully in the place, in fear of grave bodily harm, etc.. What's wrong with having the requirement that a doctor perform an abortion? The state puts requirements on you before you can kill an attacker, why not before you can kill a foetus?)