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``Religion is the cause of most wars and death``

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posted on May, 31 2012 @ 01:08 AM
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Saying Religion causes wars is like saying Science causes wars if a country like Iran was attacked for simply building nuclear energy and trying to advance.




posted on May, 31 2012 @ 01:11 AM
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Originally posted by Lionhearte
...but religion IS the cause of most wars. Of course, not all of them - but a great deal are. It's one of the reasons I hate religion so much. I literally despise the word alone.


Religion has been used as a tool to justify war for sure. This is why christianity has a profound effect on my thinking.,
True christians don`t make war. `Thou shal not murder``

The bible may have been corrupted and defiled, however the spirit of christianity can never be corrupted.



posted on May, 31 2012 @ 01:18 AM
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Originally posted by EyesWideShut
My top 3 would be

Religion
Nationalism
Racism

I have a Simple question for you... Why can't Israel get along with it's neighbors?


These three things are simply motivators to engage the ignorant masses. Nationalism has actually been the worst, but there are many motivators that people use. Take the Christian Crusades, religion had little to do with this, except for the low front soldier who may have thought so. The funny part is whatever motivator is used that is typically the least likely reason for the action....go figure.



posted on May, 31 2012 @ 01:20 AM
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Originally posted by HamrHeed

Originally posted by EyesWideShut

Originally posted by CynicalDrivel
See, I'd have no problem with the "religion starts wars" crowd if they'd just admit that Secular Humanism is a religion.


And I thought WWII was fueled by Hitler, a man who was positioning himself to supplant himself and country in the place of religion in German-ruled life?


I never said religion started WWII & I've got no horse in this race, I'm agnostic. But to say that religion hasn't caused wars is ignorant (IMHO)

Organized religion is used as a way to control & manipulate the masses, but I'll save that for another forum
edit on 31-5-2012 by EyesWideShut because: (no reason given)


I hope you aren`t implying that I think wars are never fought over religion. Because I don`t think that at all, however this cliche is being used to corner religious people which ironically will cause more strife.
Anti religion, secular humanism, whatever you want to call it has caused more trouble than good


I try to maintain a certain objectivity in most discussions. I don't think the Idea of wars being fought over religion is cliche at all. There are people in the world that will kill other people because their belief systems are different. It is a strong cultural Identifier for many people & I think it's very relevant to address that.

I did take your OP as a "My angle is right, yours is wrong now go kick rocks" sort of vibe...that's why I went in on you.

You can say the US hasn't fought any religious based wars, but if we're talking about the world as a whole I'll have to disagree.



posted on May, 31 2012 @ 01:22 AM
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Originally posted by Xtrozero

Originally posted by EyesWideShut
My top 3 would be

Religion
Nationalism
Racism

I have a Simple question for you... Why can't Israel get along with it's neighbors?


These three things are simply motivators to engage the ignorant masses.


Truer words have not been spoken...



posted on May, 31 2012 @ 01:24 AM
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reply to post by HamrHeed
 

People cause wars and death and sometimes they are organized into social groups.



posted on May, 31 2012 @ 01:28 AM
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reply to post by EyesWideShut
 


Ireland would be a nice one to add to your ever increasing list.

2nd



posted on May, 31 2012 @ 01:31 AM
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Originally posted by disfugured
reply to post by EyesWideShut
 


Ireland would be a nice one to add to your ever increasing list.

2nd


They were in my 2nd list that was on standby...but I never got any answers to the 1st list!



posted on May, 31 2012 @ 01:33 AM
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reply to post by EyesWideShut
 


Nor will you. Religious people like to disguise the violence from where much of it stems from.
edit on 31-5-2012 by disfugured because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 31 2012 @ 01:33 AM
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reply to post by HamrHeed
 


Wars are about resources...nothing but.

The leadership of whatever country you chooses, use religion or race or whatever, to foment such acts.

But I guess that the people who fix bayonets and charge the lines feel good about what they are doing before they die.

Eh...nevermind, it isn't that simple nowadays with the social media that started in the 60's. But it is still about resources nonetheless.
edit on 31-5-2012 by TDawgRex because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 31 2012 @ 01:34 AM
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well, even if we were to rid ourselves of religion we would still have wars and death. We just would lose our one good reason to not go ape and keep at it besides exhaustion. That and we probably would have a crappy society where anything is justifiable as long as the strong do it.

Religion does not fail men, people do. Religion usually teaches and promotes spirituality. Do people cash in on that? Sure they do, just like people cash in on our politics instead of living to serve with honor. The point is that religion has been with us ALWAYS. It is something you can't just erase one day and expect a utopia to emerge.

If we were to rid ourselves of all religion we would just be setting ourselves up for a lunatic down the road to establish another one. It would be a one world religion and would fail us all since it wouldn't be able to address all our needs.

The beauty of many religions is that everyone can find a "way". The price is that every now and again people will turn to fanatics during times of need and suffering. We need to promote peace and prosperity so fanatics never form and gain support from disenfranchised people.

Really when politics and the economy fail, religious dark ages emerge. Religion is the pulse of a people. When they suffer and are not happy, their religion reflects their needs /wants.

Like when you pray do you say "thank you" or "help me". You can break down every religion down into those two questions asked of its followers.

If they need help more than are grateful you can bet they are suffering and so their religion will be apocalyptical and down beat. If they are well fed, safe, and happy, they thank the deities will all their joy and scorn fanatics for trying to ruin the party.

If we want to end war and murder....we must change what men are, not what they believe.
If they are greater in understanding they will believe through that understanding. If they are made dim and ignorant they will believe through that ignorance. Do not blame the message for its audience.


edit on 31-5-2012 by BIHOTZ because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 31 2012 @ 01:47 AM
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Originally posted by EyesWideShut

Originally posted by HamrHeed

Originally posted by EyesWideShut

Originally posted by CynicalDrivel
See, I'd have no problem with the "religion starts wars" crowd if they'd just admit that Secular Humanism is a religion.


And I thought WWII was fueled by Hitler, a man who was positioning himself to supplant himself and country in the place of religion in German-ruled life?


I never said religion started WWII & I've got no horse in this race, I'm agnostic. But to say that religion hasn't caused wars is ignorant (IMHO)

Organized religion is used as a way to control & manipulate the masses, but I'll save that for another forum
edit on 31-5-2012 by EyesWideShut because: (no reason given)


I hope you aren`t implying that I think wars are never fought over religion. Because I don`t think that at all, however this cliche is being used to corner religious people which ironically will cause more strife.
Anti religion, secular humanism, whatever you want to call it has caused more trouble than good


I try to maintain a certain objectivity in most discussions. I don't think the Idea of wars being fought over religion is cliche at all. There are people in the world that will kill other people because their belief systems are different. It is a strong cultural Identifier for many people & I think it's very relevant to address that.

I did take your OP as a "My angle is right, yours is wrong now go kick rocks" sort of vibe...that's why I went in on you.

You can say the US hasn't fought any religious based wars, but if we're talking about the world as a whole I'll have to disagree.


Well atleast you can explain yourself calmly and I respect that. To me, most religions mainly christianity and buddhism are the symptom, not the prognosis. If the world was perfect, we would not need all these `groups`` from countries to religions to whatever else:
For the other ``religions`` that spread by the sword, they just keep forging the believe that god is about love not death
If some people had their way, the universe wouldn`t have been created in the first place. They claim that we destroy everything as humans, so we should be destroyed asap to please god (satan to them i`m guessing)

Like everyone, I would love to know the purpose of life but maybe the answer is so simple, that we`re all thinking too hard.
Peace and thanks for the good comments
edit on 31-5-2012 by HamrHeed because: spelling



EXCELLENT CONTRIBUTION BIHOTZ
edit on 31-5-2012 by HamrHeed because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 31 2012 @ 01:59 AM
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HISTORY IS A LIE!

ALL WARS ARE STARTED ON PURPOSE!

Here's some interesting points that connect a few dots:

TPTB have used lies and propaganda to cause the world to believe that Religion is the cause of wars and death. In reality THEY are the ones behind not only all wars and death but they are ALSO the creators of ALL the false religions which they use to blame it all on.


The Synagogue of Satan

One group and one group alone is responsible for virtually all wars and bloodshed on the face of this planet. This evil cabal is few in numbers but, like a deadly octopus, its tentacles reach out to grip and strangle untold multitudes of innocent victims. The initiates of every secret society and internationalist organization, from the Council on Foreign Relations and the Jesuits to the Bilderbergers and the Order of Skull & Bones, obey the dictates of this sinister group and tremble when standing before its leaders.

The cabalist group I refer to is the Synagogue of Satan, an ancient, yet modern, elite so politically powerful and so fabulously wealthy that even past history has been twisted, reshaped, and revised to meet its preferred version of humanity's gloomy, totalitarian future.

Religious in nature, the Synagogue of Satan is, at its essence, a grotesque, satanic cult. It's high council is composed of High Priests of Lucifer; these are men who literally worship death while practicing sexual magick and occult rituals of the blackest nature. LINK


Religion was manufactured long ago by men who wished to control the masses. Different religions were created in different places to suit the needs and beliefs of the area, and it was intended to serve as a crutch. The leaders of these regions used religion to enslave their people, and religion continues to be such an evil. In essence, religion was the first form of mind control.

When the Illuminati was formed, it was evident that religion was something that could keep the masses dumb and ignorant to what was really happening around them. Is this not what has happened? Because of religion, the Illuminati has been able to work in secret for many, many years.

The gods that are relative to each religion are continually manufactured in the minds of those that are enslaved. The indoctrination of the masses by religion has led to a brainwashed society that is easy for the Illuminati to take control of. Every major religion in the world has been infiltrated by the Illuminati. A group that calls themselves Light Feet has installed Illuminati members in every major religion of the world. The purpose of these Light Feet is to ensure that the masses are controlled by their respective religion. Source

The Illuminazi terrorists are the ones behind the scenes manipulating ALL world events, including never-ending "war for profits", revolutions (OWS), terrorism, and depressions which are carefully planned, instigated, staged, engineered and orchestrated into existence to weaken civilization, gain profits and control, reduce the population, and create a global police state.


“Most wars are engineered by the Illuminati to weaken civilization and create a global police state" ~ Henry Makow Ph.D.


“All war in history has been hatched by governments, independent of the people’s interests, to whom war is always pernicious even when successful” ~ Leo Tolstoy


"War is the major way for the EVIL, sinister, insane Illuminati to control humanity."
Michael Shore


"Wars are all based on lies" ~ Charles Young.


"All war is based on deception." ~ Sun Tzu, The Art of War


Atheists kill people in such vastly greater numbers than any religion EVER

"And the much greater persecution of priests and believers
in 20th Century Atheist tyrannies clearly demonstrates
the murderous anti-theism of Atheists."

"Then you explain why they kill people in such vastly greater numbers
than any religion EVER HAS in all of history!?"

• Russian Civil War (1917-22): 7 to 10 million
• Soviet Union, Stalin's regime (1924-53): 20 million
• People's Republic of China, Mao Zedong's regime (1949-1975): 44 to 72 million

Source


"...secular ideologies were responsible for the murder of 100 million innocent people during the last century." Source


Originally posted by Murgatroid
The secularists are more fanatical than any religious cult. Have you ever noticed this fact: Atheists claim they do not believe in the existence of God, yet they spend all their time fighting Him and making negative comments about God.

Atheism is more than disbelief; it is a well-financed movement with a stealth agenda. God and religion are separate entities that get intertwined together by man. Atheism is also an Illuminati tool to control you. If not why is their goal to have a world without a god?



“We do not fight against believers and not even clergymen. WE FIGHT AGAINST GOD to snatch believers from Him.” - Vechernaia Moskva, a Soviet newspaper





edit on 31-5-2012 by Murgatroid because: I felt like it..



posted on May, 31 2012 @ 02:09 AM
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Originally posted by EyesWideShut
reply to post by chr0naut
 


Nothing in those two particular wars that you quoted had anything to do with religion.

Now you answer my questions




Why Can't Israel get along with it's neighbors.

Why can't India & Pakistan get along *Hint, It wasn't Kashmir

What's a Jihad?

What caused The Thirty Year's War?

What caused the 1948 Arab-Israeli War?

What caused Lebanese Civil War?

What caused the War in Darfur?

I'll wait for the answers before I go on...


Pakistan partitioned itself off from the new India after independence from Colonial British rule. The partition was believed to be an amenable way of dividing a multicultural and, yes, multi-religious continent allowing for communities of different beliefs and customs to have their own land. This failed because it was a dumb idea to expect millions of people to pick up and move just to suit some political theorists. Although you state that it wasn't about Kashmir, control of the the territory of Kashmir was central to three of the four Indo-Pakistani wars. The issue with Kashmir was that the rulers of Kashmir signed up to become part of India but the tribal people of Kashmir were predominantly Muslim and wanted to be part of Pakistan. Pakistan sought to extend its borders as did India, built on largely tribal differences, neither side was particularly honorable or civil, both using tactics that they abhorred the other side using.

Jihad in dictionary definition means "struggle". It appears 41 times in the Koran and in most cases is used in the phrase translated as "striving in the way of God". An accurate interpretation of the concept of Jihad is provided by the BBC about how Muslims describe three different types of struggles: 1) A believer's internal struggle to live out the Muslim faith as well as possible. 2) The struggle to build a good Muslim society. 3) Holy war: the struggle to defend Islam, with force if necessary. - In western societies the term jihad is often translated by non-Muslims as "holy war". Scholars of Islamic studies often stress that these words are not synonymous (like "military intelligence", a contradiction in terms). Muslim authors, in particular, tend to reject such an approach, stressing non-militant connotations of the word

The 30 Years War started nominally over a Catholic/Protestant split in several European countries but was actually more a dispute between the French "Bourbon" royal family and the Germanic Habsburg royal family, especially towards its end. The whole thing was the struggle for power over who got what after the Roman Empire (then called the Holy Roman Empire) began to decline and several states began to try and grab each others territory. Spain wanted some of Germany. France wanted some of Spain, & etc.

The 1948 Arab-Israeli war was because the UN, after the British (again) colonial rule came to an end, gave back rule of part of the middle east to its inhabitants. They again, like in Pakistan/India's case, partitioned the land into several states along ethnic and cultural lines. They chose the Jewish inhabitants for a large chunk of territory because they were at least as numerous as the Arabic inhabitants in that area and were the most clearly defined ethnic group. The Jews also had a claim to the land going back thousands of years to before Babylonian and Medo-Persian occupation. The rest of the area they gave back to Arabic rule where the Arabic population was more numerous. This angered many Arabic peoples because the owners of the whole area prior to British rule were the Ottomans, so they attempted to "reclaim" their territory. It is interesting to note that most of these "Arabs" in this Palestine area were actually not genetically or tribally Arabic but are descendents of the original Canaanites and are therefore racially closer to their Jewish than the Arabs, anyway.

The Lebanese war was largely due to the country of Lebanon being unable to deal adequately with Palestinian refugees from the lands granted to Israel. The Palestinians set up the PLO and actively tried to take military control of Lebanese territory in opposition to the existing Lebanese government & people.

Darfur was a conflict between the Arab League, who claimed the area and the non-Arab Darfur tribesmen who felt their lands were being stolen. The truth is that some Bedouin Arabs had been living in the land for centuries and they all probably had equal claim.

Sorry but this is a lot of text, perhaps you could browse Wikipedia for fuller answers than I can give in a post.

One of the big things I see from this list is the concept of partitioning up lands as being the impetus for conflict.



posted on May, 31 2012 @ 02:23 AM
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reply to post by chr0naut
 


While I thank you for your answers, I already knew them before I asked the questions. I don't know if you knew the answers prior to me asking you, but if you didn't I wanted to know If you've learned anything or if through research has your opinion or stance been swayed at all?

You're trying REALLY hard not to admit that you could be wrong
. If I'm wrong, I freely admit it and I'm usually genuinely happy to learn the errors in my thinking, It's growth and my beliefs aren't concrete If someone brings up a logical counterpoint and supports it by fact and not emotions.... although sometimes my ego gets in the way...It's a struggle.

You've got to believe that not ALL wars are started with religions because rarely is anything that absolute especially modern warfare , but MANY wars & conflicts have been waged in the name of (my God is better than yours, or my book is right and yours is wrong)



posted on May, 31 2012 @ 02:25 AM
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reply to post by HamrHeed
 


No problem man, It's a pretty broad subject to tackle.



posted on May, 31 2012 @ 02:27 AM
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Originally posted by EyesWideShut

Originally posted by chr0naut

Originally posted by EyesWideShut
My top 3 would be

Religion
Nationalism
Racism

I have a Simple question for you... Why can't Israel get along with it's neighbors?


Because of a very old feud.



Not so fast speedy...lol Why were they feuding?


Because the younger brother, who would later become the father of the tribes of Israel stole the blessing of his blind dad from his older brother, who became the father of several other tribes. The blessing or "birthright" gave the younger brother the inheritance and all the older brother got out of it was some lentil soup.

That's where the feud started.

Generations later it escalated to open warfare and the younger brother's tribe was far more bloodthirsty that the elder's.

While the younger brother's tribes kept themselves to themselves, The older brothers tribes interbred and lost their racial identity. Soon the descendants of the older brother began calling themselves Arabs, after the Bedouin tribes that they allied with, but they aren't necessarily genetically related, but who can tell since they didn't keep genealogies like the Jews did.



posted on May, 31 2012 @ 02:31 AM
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Originally posted by EyesWideShut
reply to post by chr0naut
 


While I thank you for your answers, I already knew them before I asked the questions. I don't know if you knew the answers prior to me asking you, but if you didn't I wanted to know If you've learned anything or if through research has your opinion or stance been swayed at all?

You're trying REALLY hard not to admit that you could be wrong
. If I'm wrong, I freely admit it and I'm usually genuinely happy to learn the errors in my thinking, It's growth and my beliefs aren't concrete If someone brings up a logical counterpoint and supports it by fact and not emotions.... although sometimes my ego gets in the way...It's a struggle.

You've got to believe that not ALL wars are started with religions because rarely is anything that absolute especially modern warfare , but MANY wars & conflicts have been waged in the name of (my God is better than yours, or my book is right and yours is wrong)


Well, there's the REASON for wars, and then, there's the MARKETING.

Greed, hatred & power is the reason, religion, honor and bravery is ...



posted on May, 31 2012 @ 02:36 AM
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reply to post by HamrHeed
 


Dear HamrHeed

Totally wrong, leaders of countries are the cause of all wars.

Guess what death happens war or not.



posted on May, 31 2012 @ 02:39 AM
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reply to post by chr0naut
 


Wow, hmmph... I thought it was because the two groups of semites (Jews & Arabs) were fighting over Holy land that the Jews believed was promised by G-d and the Muslims said the Prophet ascended to heaven over the temple mount.... that and the fact that they argue over whose story is valid in each of their religious texts even though it's essentially the same story. (My book is right and yours is wrong)

Does religion even exist in your world?... you refuse to acknowledge that it has had any bearing whatsoever in any conflict in mankind. lol



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