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Would you give your life for your Freedom?

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posted on May, 30 2012 @ 07:53 PM
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I thought it was important to bring some awareness of Sophia Scholl.

As seekers of truth and freedom, how far are we prepared to go and act for our beliefs.

Sophia Scholl

Sophia Magdalena Scholl[1][2] (9 May 1921 – 22 February 1943) was a German student, active within the White Rose non-violent resistance group in Nazi Germany. She was convicted of high treason after having been found distributing anti-war leaflets at the University of Munich with her brother Hans. As a result, they were both executed by guillotine. Since the 1970s, Scholl has been celebrated as one of the great German heroes who actively opposed the Third Reich during the Second World War.



“How can we expect righteousness to prevail when there is hardly anyone willing to give himself up individually to a righteous cause. Such a fine, sunny day, and I have to go, but what does my death matter, if through us thousands of people are awakened and stirred to action?”
Sophia Scholl, her last words before being executed in 1943

In the world there are those people who say things. In the world there are people who do things without thinking.
Then there are people who say what they mean and do what they say. They act on their beliefs and LIVE the truth.
ATS members constantly talk about resistance to TPTB and always disagreeing with government and people making political decisions they oppose.

White Rose



“Isn’t it true that every honest German is ashamed of his government these days? Who among us has any conception of the dimensions of shame that will befall us and our children when one day the veil has fallen from our eyes and the most horrible of crimes—crimes that infinitely outdistance every human measure—reach the light of day?”
From flyer 1 White Rose

Substitute 'German' for your own country and does this sound familiar? Are we approaching times where these words are felt in the hearts of people around the world?

Sophia Scholl was courageous young woman who for her utter belief in freedom and truth was executed by a sinister Nazi government.
Is the world we live in today, 70 years later, again, getting to the point where people who live speak and act on the truth will be put into a situation where freedoms will compromised and we will be persecuted for our beliefs and ultimately pay the price with our lives?

Take a few moments to reflect and ask your-self the question.

Would you really die for your beliefs?




posted on May, 30 2012 @ 08:10 PM
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reply to post by magma
 
I would like to think that I would.

Thank you for this, new friend - there are obvious parallels to be drawn here, and I can only hope I come down on Sophia's side. Jingoism and wilful ignorance benefit no one.

S&F for you.



posted on May, 30 2012 @ 08:15 PM
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There was probably a time when I would and there may be a time in the future that I would, but right now, for tonight, with my present mood...what good would it do? What good would being free be if I were dead and didn't get to enjoy it? Now, if that freedom got passed on to the next generation, then sure, but if it's only MY freedom, it may be better to be not-so-free and alive than free and dead.



posted on May, 30 2012 @ 08:30 PM
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Originally posted by PurpleChiten
There was probably a time when I would and there may be a time in the future that I would, but right now, for tonight, with my present mood...what good would it do? What good would being free be if I were dead and didn't get to enjoy it? Now, if that freedom got passed on to the next generation, then sure, but if it's only MY freedom, it may be better to be not-so-free and alive than free and dead.

What good would it be if you were alive but never enjoyed it?

Here are two lines I'll always remember from my idiotic childhood:

"It's better to die on my feet than live my life on my knees"
and
"I'd rather be carried by six than judged by twelve."

I can't remember where exactly I saw the line, but one of the best summaries I've gotten on this lately is along the lines of "Life is more than merely the prolonged continuation of existence" (apologies to anyone else who caught this and knows just how badly I've mangled that line...).

Sure, you can prolong your life here on earth - but life passes, even for our offspring as well as their offspring. Death is the only assurance. Why on earth would we tolerate and insufficiency that we're every bit as likely to pass on to the next generation, instead of striving against said insufficiency even to our own loss to ensure a better outcome for those who follow?

I firmly believe that one of our primary missions in this life is to make its passing as pleasant as possible for all those around us - and if that costs us our life...so what? It's going to end anyway.



posted on May, 30 2012 @ 08:38 PM
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Good question. My answer has always been a resounding yes!

But sadly many will give up Freedom for life.

Peace




edit on 30-5-2012 by jude11 because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 30 2012 @ 08:41 PM
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Originally posted by jude11
Good question. My answer has always been a resounding yes!

But sadly many will give up Freedom for life.

Peace




edit on 30-5-2012 by jude11 because: (no reason given)


I dunno, it makes sense to me.... I'd give up MY freedom for the lives of others and I'd give up MY life for the freedom of others. I just think that's the way it should be.

...and if it was me and me alone, I'd pick my life over my freedom in most cases depending on how extreme it would be
edit on 30-5-2012 by PurpleChiten because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 30 2012 @ 09:00 PM
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Yes, of course, I would die for my country, freedom, family and religious freedoms.

I would rather be dead than have my children and grandchildren think of me as a coward.
That would be a terrible legacy to leave.

I will fight until my last breath.



posted on May, 30 2012 @ 09:23 PM
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Originally posted by PurpleChiten
There was probably a time when I would and there may be a time in the future that I would, but right now, for tonight, with my present mood...what good would it do? What good would being free be if I were dead and didn't get to enjoy it? Now, if that freedom got passed on to the next generation, then sure, but if it's only MY freedom, it may be better to be not-so-free and alive than free and dead.


So you would rather live on your knees than die on your feet. Ok. Got it. Check.


“If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen.” ― Samuel Adams


And to the other poster, the second quote you got backwards, it's "Better to be judged by twelve than carried by six" as in, shoot first, ask questions later. Kind of out of context, here.



posted on May, 30 2012 @ 09:29 PM
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reply to post by magma
 


President Lincoln said it best -


Four score and seven years ago our fathers brought forth on this continent, a new nation, conceived in Liberty, and dedicated to the proposition that all men are created equal.

Now we are engaged in a great civil war, testing whether that nation, or any nation so conceived and so dedicated, can long endure. We are met on a great battlefield of that war. We have come to dedicate a portion of that field, as a final resting place for those who here gave their lives that that nation might live. It is altogether fitting and proper that we should do this.

But, in a larger sense, we can not dedicate - we can not consecrate - we can not hallow - this ground. The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract. The world will little note, nor long remember what we say here, but it can never forget what they did here. It is for us the living, rather, to be dedicated here to the unfinished work which they who fought here have thus far so nobly advanced. It is rather for us to be here dedicated to the great task remaining before us - that from these honored dead we take increased devotion to that cause for which they gave the last full measure of devotion - that we here highly resolve that these dead shall not have died in vain - that this nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom - and that government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the earth.



President Abraham Lincoln

November 1863




Giving ones life so that others may be free is worthwhile - always.
Giving ones life defending those who cant defend themselves is worthwhile - always.
Giving ones life standing up against evil is worthwhile - akways.

To do nothing is to be complicit.

I will not be alive forever, and there are future generations we must speak to. To die for freedom so that one day war, hatred, inequality, etc all become a thing only historians talk about is justification enough.

A few more quotes to drive it home -
Red Dawn - end of movie

In the early days of World War III, guerrillas, mostly children, placed the names of their lost upon this rock. They fought here alone and gave up their lives "so that this nation would not perish from the Earth.


My Creed -

I do not choose to be a common man. It is my right to be uncommon—if I can.
I seek opportunity—not security.
I do not wish to be a kept citizen, humbled and dulled by having the state look after me.
I want to take the calculated risk;
to dream and to build,
to fail and to succeed.
I refuse to barter incentive for a dole. I prefer the challenges of life to the guaranteed existence;
the thrill of fulfillment to the stale calm of utopia.

I will not trade freedom for beneficence nor my dignity for a handout.
I will never cower before any master nor bend to any threat.
It is my heritage to stand erect, proud and unafraid;
to think and act for myself,
enjoy the benefit of my creations,
and to face the world boldly and say, this I have done.

All this is what it means to be an American.


German resistance -

Ihr trugt die Schande nicht.
Ihr wehrtet euch.
Ihr gabt das große ewig wache Zeichen der Umkehr,
opfernd Euer heißes Leben für Freiheit, Recht, und Ehre.

You did not bear the shame.
You resisted.
You bestowed an eternally vigilant symbol of change
by sacrificing your impassioned lives for freedom, justice and honor.


edit on 30-5-2012 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 30 2012 @ 09:34 PM
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So those who would lay down their lives for their freedom, how come you're still here?

Personally no, I would rather be a slave and alive than dead, I can't fight bondage from a grave. In fact anyone who is still alive must obviously think this way also.

Talk is cheap. Lets see you put your money where...Unless you all think you're free hahahaha.


edit on 5/30/2012 by ANOK because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 30 2012 @ 09:39 PM
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Originally posted by ANOK
So those who would lay down their lives for their freedom, how come you're still here?

Personally no, I would rather be a slave and alive than dead, I can't fight bondage from a grave. In fact anyone who is still alive must obviously think this way also.

Talk is cheap. Lets see you put your money where...Unless you all think you're free hahahaha.


edit on 5/30/2012 by ANOK because: (no reason given)


Sorry.. slaves can't issue challenges or voice an independant thought. At this time return to the mines and remeber the next time you speak without being told to do so, you will be killed.

Now..

leave...
edit on 30-5-2012 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 30 2012 @ 09:43 PM
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I would give up my life for my 3 year old son to be free.



posted on May, 30 2012 @ 09:50 PM
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Originally posted by Xcathdra

Sorry.. slaves can't issue challeneges, or voice an independant thought. At this time return to the mines and the next time you speak without being told to do so, you will be killed.

Now..

leave...


Says who? Who makes the rules of slavery, you?

If you are reliant on someone else giving you a "job", or a system that you cannot live outside of, you are not free.
Under capitalism a minority class of people become extremely more wealthy than the majority. Naturally those with wealth will use that wealth to monopolize the state to work to their benefit, at the expense of the majority.
How do capitalists make that wealth? From exploiting the labour of the majority. The majority is not free, but are subordinate to the capitalist class.

Money is the tool that allows the capitalist class to monopolize the means to produce, and deny it's use to the majority, unless they give you a "job". Where is the freedom in that?

Freedom means more than the right to spout off about the government, or "choose" which capitalist you want to be exploited by.

Sorry to bust ya bubble.



posted on May, 30 2012 @ 10:03 PM
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Originally posted by ANOK
Says who? Who makes the rules of slavery, you?

Certainly not the slave...


Originally posted by ANOK
If you are reliant on someone else giving you a "job", or a system that you cannot live outside of, you are not free.
Under capitalism a minority class of people become extremely more wealthy than the majority. Naturally those with wealth will use that wealth to monopolize the state to work to their benefit, at the expense of the majority.
How do capitalists make that wealth? From exploiting the labour of the majority. The majority is not free, but are subordinate to the capitalist class.

I get to choose which job I want to apply for. I work to educate myself so I am qualified to hold the position I am seeking. If I get hired its possible I can get fired. Its also possible for me to say eff off and walk out the door to find something better. I have the ability and opprotunity to start my own business if I want to. I have a right to determine my own outcome, my own future.

A slave does not get that choice.



Originally posted by ANOK
Money is the tool that allows the capitalist class to monopolize the means to produce, and deny it's use to the majority, unless they give you a "job". Where is the freedom in that?

Before money it was fur.... meat.... food staples... precious rocks / gemstones.... simple bartering. One side has something the other side needs and vice versa..

I am eduated in my field and as such have the training and know how that is desirable to employers.

A slave is told what they will be doing and get no choice in terms of self determination.



Originally posted by ANOK
Freedom means more than the right to spout off about the government, or "choose" which capitalist you want to be exploited by.

Sorry to bust ya bubble.

Yet here we are, with Democracy consistently winning out over other ideologies.

Freedom is the choice to determine ones own future.
Slavery is the result when people choose existence over living.

I would rather die to live free than die just existing.
edit on 30-5-2012 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 30 2012 @ 10:22 PM
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Yes and so would others if I was forced to do so.



posted on May, 30 2012 @ 10:30 PM
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Originally posted by Xcathdra
I get to choose which job I want to apply for.


The majority of people do not choose their job, they take what they can. Choosing who you are exploited by is not freedom.


I work to educate myself so I am qualified to hold the position I am seeking. If I get hired its possible I can get fired. Its also possible for me to say eff off and walk out the door to find something better. I have the ability and opprotunity to start my own business if I want to. I have a right to determine my own outcome, my own future.


Great for you, but the reality is the majority do not get to choose as easily as you do.

But as I said before that is not freedom, that is choosing within very limited choices. Freedom is not being able to choose from a limited set of choices.


A slave does not get that choice.


Again who makes these rules, you? Where is the rule book that says you're not a slave if you get to choose your slave master?



Before money it was fur.... meat.... food staples... precious rocks / gemstones.... simple bartering. One side has something the other side needs and vice versa..


But it's really not that simple is it? Capitalists become extremely wealthy by exploiting labour and monopolizing the means to produce. Money just makes it easier for that to happen. Bartering is not going to make you more wealthy than others, because you don't make profit that can be invested in order to make more money from the profit.


I am eduated in my field and as such have the training and know how that is desirable to employers.

A slave is told what they will be doing and get no choice in terms of self determination.


Again that is not freedom. You are still working for an employee, which means you are being exploited. Unless you have control and receive the full fruits of your labour you are not free. If you have to go to someone to get a "job" you are not free.




Yet here we are, with Democracy consistently winning out over other ideologies.


Again that doesn't mean you are free, only free within a set of constraints created by capitalism and the state.


Freedom is the choice to determine ones own future.


And once again the majority do not have that choice, and in reality neither do you. It only seems you do because your choices are not outside of the constraints of capitalism and the state. You are happy and satisfied with the situation, but that doesn't mean you are free.


Slavery is the result when people choose existence over living.


Nobody chooses existence over living, it is a situation forced on people due to economy.


slave
[sleyv]   Origin
slave
   [sleyv] Show IPA noun, verb, slaved, slav·ing.
noun

2.
a person entirely under the domination of some influence or person:

dictionary.reference.com...



posted on May, 30 2012 @ 10:32 PM
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reply to post by Xcathdra
 


You may think you are free, but your statements prove you are not.

In this world, only a true criminal (as defined by your overlords) is free. Therefore, I turned to a life of crime long ago.

I'm as free as a bird. I live in the cracks between your worlds. They can't touch me. However, if it comes down to fighting, I will take part, and willingly give up my TRUE freedom if it will help others to become free without having to become a criminal.



posted on May, 31 2012 @ 12:27 AM
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Freedom from oppression. Freedom to have a voice, to have a mind and be able to speak it without risk of persecution. That is what this is about. Many loud mouths speak and toungues wag with only hot air blowing.

Yet

Passive resistance, a gentle art, yet so powerful.

We create our own freedoms, impose our own rules and base our existance on what we already know, dream about what we would like for better life. Today.

We are as free as we can be. Under each individual circumstances. I am not going to complain as do others.

But are we? Is this being taken away as we speak?

This site is full of reports from living members of these freedoms being taken away daily!

Imagine speaking out today about your own government, handing out flyers that your president was a murderer

Where will that get you? Who wants to test it to find out?



posted on May, 31 2012 @ 12:35 AM
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Originally posted by CaptChaos
reply to post by Xcathdra
 


You may think you are free, but your statements prove you are not.

In this world, only a true criminal (as defined by your overlords) is free. Therefore, I turned to a life of crime long ago.

I'm as free as a bird. I live in the cracks between your worlds. They can't touch me. However, if it comes down to fighting, I will take part, and willingly give up my TRUE freedom if it will help others to become free without having to become a criminal.



You had the choice...

A slave does not.



posted on May, 31 2012 @ 12:37 AM
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reply to post by ANOK
 


Im not happy with my government nor the choices it has been making.

Feel free to head to Iran and criticise the government or God forbid the top turbins.

Spit on a picture of Putin and see wat happens...

I am free.. I am sorry if you dont understand what that concept is.



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