The Right/Left illusion...is NOT an illusion

reply to post by intrepid

And if you didn't do what you were told you would be executed. Reagan thought he was going to do it his way. Nope. If you don't do the Potomac Two Step you are really putting yourself out there. Remember what Clinton said(I know it's about Disclosure but it's bigger than that)

JFK comes to mind….

So according to you there is no way out of this. Am I reading that correctly?

Then why all the fuss about RP if nobody can do a damn thing once they get to DC?? False hope??

There are differences, but these differences are individual. A person may lean left, or lean right, but very few are going to believe everything a certain party advocates.

If they do, then you know they are just sheep.

Individuals like myself think that people should have the right to bear arms, also believe that abortions should be legal, and capital punishment should continue. I also believe that same sex marriage should be legal, and there should be an EPA.

What I think people are talking about when they talk about no left or right, is the political leadership. These people believe in only one thing, money. They don't really care about anything else, they are there for the money. And that's what makes the left right thing a crock. Cause it's all about the money.

reply to post by HauntWok

There are differences, but these differences are individual. A person may lean left, or lean right, but very few are going to believe everything a certain party advocates.

If they do, then you know they are just sheep.

Spoken like a true self-described Independent!

My definition of independent is as follows:

Independent voter - “I don’t subscribe to a certain political ideology so that makes me smarter than everyone else in the room; and anyone who does is a blind sheep with no critical thinking skills.”

Really??

Originally posted by seabag
reply to post by intrepid

 

......

Then why all the fuss about RP if nobody can do a damn thing once they get to DC?? False hope??

Take it a step further and think of all the good and bad things we attribute to one president or another.... or even one party or another....

In the end what drives them is completely and totally separate from our governance... what drives them is "political expedience." Find those words in the constitution and I'll send you a cheroot.

PS - "political expedience" is roughly equivalent to "show business" - or a popularity contest; sort of like dancing with the stars... where your fan base can make you the champion despite your not being the best dancer.

reply to post by seabag

Really??

Yea, really.

If a person accepts and agrees with absolutely every single tenant of a political ideology, they aren't thinking for themselves, they are allowing someone else to think for them.

I agree with some things that the left advocates, some of it however is complete bull.

I agree with some things that the right advocates, some of it however is complete bull.

I choose for myself what is best for me.

Does that make me smarter than everyone else in the room? No, of course not, the fact that I am smarter than everyone else in the room makes me smarter than everyone else in the room.

reply to post by HauntWok

Yea, really.

If a person accepts and agrees with absolutely every single tenant of a political ideology, they aren't thinking for themselves, they are allowing someone else to think for them.

What if I truly believe in everything (or 95%) of the conservative ideology? What if I’ve done my homework, heard both sides, weighed the facts and came to that conclusion on my own? How does that equate to “allowing someone else to think for me”?

I agree with some things that the left advocates, some of it however is complete bull.

I agree with some things that the right advocates, some of it however is complete bull.

That’s your problem…that doesn’t mean others are wrong for coming to a different conclusion!

I choose for myself what is best for me.

So do I!! You just don’t like what I’ve decided!

Does that make me smarter than everyone else in the room? No, of course not, the fact that I am smarter than everyone else in the room makes me smarter than everyone else in the room.

Congrats!!

reply to post by Maxmars

Take it a step further and think of all the good and bad things we attribute to one president or another.... or even one party or another....

In the end what drives them is completely and totally separate from our governance... what drives them is "political expedience." Find those words in the constitution and I'll send you a cheroot.

PS - "political expedience" is roughly equivalent to "show business" - or a popularity contest; sort of like dancing with the stars... where your fan base can make you the champion despite your not being the best dancer.

So getting behind any of the candidates, including Paul, is simply false hope IYO??

None of them are going to be able to look past their own political expediency and do what’s right for the country?

reply to post by seabag

What if I truly believe in everything (or 95%) of the conservative ideology?

Well, 95% isn't 100% now is it?

What if I’ve done my homework, heard both sides, weighed the facts and came to that conclusion on my own?

Then you answered your own question haven't you?

How does that equate to “allowing someone else to think for me”?

Well, if you believe in 95% of an ideology and came to that belief through your own research, then you are thinking for yourself now aren't you?

That’s your problem…that doesn’t mean others are wrong for coming to a different conclusion!

No they aren't wrong for coming to a different conclusion, I didn't say that now did I?

So do I!! You just don’t like what I’ve decided!

There's a major difference between not liking what you decided, and not caring what you decided. Now sit back and think which one that is.

different levels of perception have different truths. in the ultimate perception it's all the same, just one big pile of bull#

reply to post by seabag


Not necessarily... I mean it to say that we have to look for candidates who we can believe understand we are aware of the 'nature' of their 'game.'

Too often these jokers begin to believe the glorious adulation heaped on them by the media support... and then they get vainglorious crazy...

As for RP... I think he is among the few who are seasoned enough to know where the troubleshooting has to start... the rest seem just happy as can be about how the system works (for them) and will say anything to keep the "status" as close to "quo" as they can.

Of course it's the party that rules us... not the players.

Well here is a pickle for you. What do you call not believing in any form of slavery, or banks or money. Denouncing and Renouncing it as massive crimes against humanity and hellzone demon stuff.

Total equality, but abundant, without scarsity.

No controlling laws and legislations, ie. basic common law, thou shalt not harm, wedded to equality and ensuring no one is without.

No leaders, no corporate heads, groups of citizens, councils of citizens running things, and all people participating, taking turns, half women and men, with highest education that exists, though now buried. Everyone having their own land, homes, and no such thing as corporate monopolies, but small businesses, creativity and equality everywhere. Its not a police state, its not fascist, there are no controlling leaders or legistlation. It is freedom and equality the way HEAVEN and HIGHER PLANETS do it.

What is that?

Of course Left and Right is a scam.

Conservative should mean, conserving nature, resources, and everyones rights. Period. So I'm more conservative than any conservative.

Liberal should mean, not controlling others with massive legislation and ensuring all have food and homes, medical, what they need and even what they wish for. So I'm more liberal than any liberal.

The system is a scam.

reply to post by HauntWok

Well, 95% isn't 100% now is it?

I’m not 100% in agreement with my wife but I married her and we have a great relationship! You can’t have everything you want 100%!

Well, if you believe in 95% of an ideology and came to that belief through your own research, then you are thinking for yourself now aren't you?

Yep! And you said anybody who subscribes to everything a certain political ideology advocates is a sheeple even though I came to the conclusion on my own.

We’re arguing in circles now.


Let me remind you that you said:

A person may lean left, or lean right, but very few are going to believe everything a certain party advocates.

If they do, then you know they are just sheep.

That’s ridiculous!

Let’s leave it at this…everyone is free to decide for themselves. Just because someone happens to believe in the LEFT or the RIGHT doesn’t mean they’ve allowed someone to think for them or that they are blind sheep.

Fair enough?? Would you like to revise your remarks?

reply to post by seabag

Fair enough?? Would you like to revise your remarks?

Why would I want to do that? I'm not wrong. I stand by everything I said. And you confirmed it. So, why exactly, would I want to revise being correct?

Our elected leaders work for the same, the 0.01%; they will say w/e needed to mobilize their party to vote but they will do w/e the 0.01% want.

That is why there is no left/right in politics any longer as Musollini's dream came true.

On a personal level, you can liberal or conservative, but on a political level their uttered platitudes is only to get the many to hit the polls.

Derek

reply to post by SaturnFX


I think what most are referring to when they describe the left/right illusion is not that they aren't different but that their differences in their own regards are by themselves neither right nor wrong...in the political spectrum being solely left or right is the same as making an assertion for all that those same belifes must then be held and upheld by absolutely EVERYONE!

If you are pro-abortion go left or right but please do so by yourself. If you are anti-abortion go left or right but please do so by yourself, in the end the illusion is that there is a collective agreement on either, which there is not, therefor draping it over ALL is nonsense and all the arguments for doing so are illusions...

there is a difference between black and white but one is not better than the other....politics tries to claim one is better than the other...THAT is the illusion of left/right

Divide and conquer is for fools and suckers.

Liberty for all is the way.

reply to post by SaturnFX


The closest I have come to identifying my political stance (that phrase leaves a bad taste in my mouth) is Liberal.

I have pro-abortion in cases of rape, anti-abortion in cases of being too drunk to put on a condom.

I disapprove of any usage of guns, unless owned by a registered hunter and carried on legal hunting grounds.

I firmly approve of alternative sources of energy, preferring that we not stick our abnormally large collective national nose in the business of other countries when we know full well we would not want the same happening to us.

I prefer the corporations to have less control over us, and that corporations make less contribution to the political process, thereby cutting down on the corruption that is rampant with feeding green to politicians for favors.

I believe in respecting the earth more than we have been...after all, there is only one earth at the moment, so we should love it while we can.

I believe in freedom of expression, unless it is blatantly attacking members of society without grounds and with intent to cause damage regardless of justification.

I believe in freedom of religion, as long as it harms no one else and you don't bother anyone with your righteous babbling or try soliciting your new Rastafarian regime.

So, what does that make me? The only reason I bothered typing all of that out was so someone with more political background could identify my political stance. Right wing? Left wing? Conservative, Liberal, Republican, Democrat?

It might help me understand myself better.

reply to post by METACOMET

To sum it up in a single sentence,..

We have a single party/two branch system that employs a group-think positive feedback loop stratagem where people are told exactly what they want to hear in an effort to polarize them into opposing groups that offset each other so that the status quo can be maintained.

Winner!

Both sides have their pet issues - none of which affect the overall outcome (also known as the bankroll of those dancing the lead).

Quibble dividedly over primarily these and similar other issues as you want - despite how vital and important they actually may be - and you'll keep trading blows to no lasting effect while we are robbed and stripped of our vital liberties otherwise, to their benefit. These issues, sadly, end up being mere distraction while lying continues, war abounds, people are sentenced, and homes are stolen.

It's the grand illusion, and I'd love it if someone could find the documentation for me of the meeting back in the 20s of this basically being admitted re: the democrat and republican parties. Two sides against the middle - both have their rights and their wrongs, and neither will ever agree on the other - and while we're distracted, those screwing all of us make out like bandits since everything else keeps heading in the same direction, despite claims to the contrary. Government grows, rights and privacy shrink, and prices keep going up ("Oh, Obama governed over increasing gas prices!" Well, remember what gas prices were before we went into Iraq? Shut the hell up...).

*grumble*

reply to post by SaturnFX


See the thing is, the overall hidden agenda remains the same in the end,
to enslave the poor and get their fat ass paid enough to enjoy a lifestyle of luxury and loath.

There is a difference if you look at their "stances" on general subjects, but in the end no politician has
any Americans interest at heart and to believe otherwise is quite naive.

Don't let them decieve you, see past the " illusion " not the left/right illusion, but the " voting counts" illusion.
Democracy is an illusion in itself, a deception.

I'd like to say that times will change but they won't. We will all continue on with our jobs and
Hobbys living in our comfortable houses, comfortable secure air conditionned houses.

Peace!

reply to post by AfterInfinity


Ya. your liberal dude. But embrace it..when you say it, neocons cringe...so say it loudly and with great confidence..watch em go nuts, get all red faced and call you a socialist.

Welcome to the camp, comrade