The Right/Left illusion...is NOT an illusion

I get a bit bothered by people whom pop into threads and suggest that the right and left in politics is an illusion, there is no difference, etc etc etc.
These people may have some validity in a few areas (such as fiscal responsibility...laugh loudly when they say one side is and the other isn't...neither of them are. endless history shows this to be true).

But, there are very quantifiable differences between the sides.

Some questions to ask them when they pop in and suggest there is no difference:

Do you believe women should be able to get an abortion?
If yes, go left, if no, go right

Do you believe a constitutional amendment should be set in place to forbid homosexual marriage?
If yes, go right, if no, go left.

There are a dozen other issues that has no middle ground, no its the same either way...(feel free to post some so the people can see the differences).

I do believe that a person can have views on both sides..someone may not care about marriage, but not want abortions to be allowed..or visa versa...but to suggest on every discussion that taking a left or right viewpoint is an illusion is just being intellectually lazy.

This is madness...its also a rant (if a mod decides to toss this in rants..but it is a wrench tossed into almost every issues thread that comes along)...
But, I would like actual issues that contrast greatly the left and right...try to be as impartial as you can when laying out the differences.

I see what you mean... there is some difference in opinions, but overall it does seem like they both answer to the same people. Why else would Obama not only re-sign the Patriot Act but make things even worse with NDAA? Why would he not only not alter the Middle East war timeline (happened to Bush's scheduled by the day) but engage in additional war activities (Libya?) Why did both Bush and Obama put out ridiculous stimulus packages that don't help the average American citizen one bit? Sure Bush cut taxes and Obama raised them, but it's cents on the dollar compared to the billions in stimulus money.

I have found that people that think left and right are the same, are usually leftists.

You're right that they do have differences like you described. But it is undeniable that they work for the same special interests

All the reasons in the op that are stating differences are simply differences created to get people up off their asses to go vote. If you're voting for the same thing, irresponsible use of taxpayer dollars, what does it matter the issues that get you up and at the voting booths. These are just issues to make you feel appeased as a voter.

reply to post by Carseller4


I've noticed, those that choose sides don't know what they are choosing.

Neither side actually cares about their constituents past getting themselves re-elected; they care more about keeping their power than actually doing right by you. Each party holds a caricature of views and creates a dichotomy that leaves the everyday person having to balance voting for something they agree with while having to accept something else they disagree with.

Perhaps it's just me, but I find it absurd that any "pure" democrats or republicans exist.

That is the illusion.

Not that they're the same, but that they're equal... equally bad.

We're left not with a choice between the best, but a choice between lesser evils.

The choice, is the actual illusion.





... in my opinion.

Originally posted by eNumbra
Perhaps it's just me, but I find it absurd that any "pure" democrats or republicans exist.

That is the illusion.

Not that they're the same, but that they're equal... equally bad.

We're left not with a choice between the best, but a choice between lesser evils.

The choice, is the actual illusion.

I could agree with that, but issue for issue there are differences. It gets quite annoying when you are discussing a specific issue where the lines are clear and someone comes in suggesting there is no difference...when there clearly is.

I have views on both sides of the equation so I'm neither left or right.

However, I do think that both the Democrats and the Republicans work together to keep themselves in office.

Neither party is more fiscally responsible than the other (despite what they claim in election literature)
Neither party is tough on illegal immigration.
Neither party wants to solve the right to choose vs the right to life issue. ( They want to keep this as a hot button issue for elections.. Thus nothing will change)
Neither party is doing anything towards a balanced budget.
Neither party is doing anything towards tax reform. Both sides like to talk and make proposals but in the end, business benefits and the middle class loses.

If one puppeteer is pulling the strings, then it doesn't matter which side "gets in". They will still dance to their master's tune... so while us ordinary citizens may be left or right, the one pulling the strings is right in the middle.

I get a bit bothered by people whom pop into threads and suggest that the right and left in politics is an illusion, there is no difference, etc etc etc.

Seen quite a few of those post's and there are clear difference's and clear ideologies behind each side a read through most political threads it is rather easy to tell the difference's.

American Politics is nothing more than the Hatfield's and McCoy's and have been feuding for over 200 years, the "families" getting slaughtered.

Originally posted by SaturnFX
I could agree with that, but issue for issue there are differences. It gets quite annoying when you are discussing a specific issue where the lines are clear and someone comes in suggesting there is no difference...when there clearly is.

There are differences, though the ones people are constantly arguing about are ones that I've seen for quite a while as nothing more than distractions... i.e. gay marriage, abortion; the mainstream doesn't seem to hold many sane opinions on the issues and when they do their other opinions turn me off.

Their differences, in my opinion are more cosmetic. They are certainly differences, you are right; but I see them as more a color of my armband type of difference.

More government intrusion into peoples lives?
Yes? Go left
No? Go right.

Gun ownership.
Yes? Go right.
No? Go left.

Pay less in taxes.
Yes? Go right.
No? Go left.

reply to post by eNumbra

Their differences, in my opinion are more cosmetic. They are certainly differences, you are right; but I see them as more a color of my armband type of difference.

So the important issue of life and death (abortion) holds only the significance of an "armband" to you???

I think you proved the OP's point.

That is beyond ridiculous to me.

Originally posted by seabag
reply to post by eNumbra

 

So the important issue of life and death (abortion) holds only the significance of an "armband" to you???

I think you proved the OP's point.

That is beyond ridiculous to me.

You apparently missed the whole idea of "it's nothing but appeals to emotion to stay in power".

I have my opinion on abortion, I have my opinion on gay marriage, I have all of my opinions but frankly there are dozens if not hundreds that are far more important in this world right now; but everyone would rather focus on cute little babies and dudes making out when they pick their leaders.

reply to post by SaturnFX


The discussion of the differences are valid, they just don't matter, other than to have a political definition.

The thing is the US is a "free" county, this means both sides will have to compromise eventually to the middle ground and legally each citizen will have to accept both sides.

To sum it up in a single sentence,..

We have a single party/two branch system that employs a group-think positive feedback loop stratagem where people are told exactly what they want to hear in an effort to polarize them into opposing groups that offset each other so that the status quo can be maintained.

I disagree for a different reason. Republicans as a whole are ditching hard core values for more equitable ones. Why do you think Romney is doing so well? He's not the RNC's choice BUT he's the choice of Republicans. He's a moderate. You want Obama out? You've got to give the "swing voters" a candidate that they will vote for. In Romney they have that. He may not beat Obama's mighty machine, loaded with cash but he's going to give them fits.

Originally posted by beezzer
More government intrusion into peoples lives?
Yes? Go left
No? Go right.

Beezer, I think this one is a little off. it depends on what your definition of intrusion is. The Patriot Act? Homeland Security spying on Americans? The creation of TSA for friendly gropes? How about trying to create bans on same sex marriage or getting in the way of a woman's right to choose? That's a whole lot of government intrusion.

It seems to me the only big government The Right opposes is when it comes to their wallet.

reply to post by intrepid


And the discussion is obvious, it is the fact that they are competing being discussed, not the issues that need discussion. The issues that need discussion, well, both sides agree but refuse to allow the other side to come up with a solution, this is to fuel the discussion of competition.

Not to point you out specifically but this is what I hear when I watch what's mainstream. Then its heard repeated.