Pastor sentenced to 2 years in prison for teaching spanking as discipline!

Originally posted by WhisperingWinds
Quite honestly , I can't see how spanking teaches anything except that physical harm is a means to get your way or make your point known.

There are far superior ways to discipline that will make a child think twice about their choices. Taking away privileges of watching favorite cartoons, favorite snacks, playtime, can be much more effective than hitting.

I think its ok to restrain a child if they are out of control physically, but the teaching comes later when a privilege is taken away and they are forced to think about the consequences of their actions.

The problem is that the discipline that will really send the right message across takes time and consistency , something not all parents have the time for.

Being a parent isn't easy at times, but I honestly can't see any merit in hitting your child. I know plenty of good people who did just fine in life without getting punished by physical abuse, as well as some who were subject to corporal punishment, that didn't do so well later on in their lives.

i agree.

at the same time though, well.

for example well....

went to school: got hit by kid. tell on kid. nothing happens. nothing is done about it.

repeat, the whole school year.


one day: hit kid back, because i am sick of being bullied, and nobody seems to care.

teacher immediately punishes me.





parents cancel my sleepover with friend, and take all my toys away.



what they all got: a really hateful kid that never listened to them ever ever again.




so... yes massive cruel and unusual punishment and manipulation of the system against an individuals right to happiness and freedom - a good kid does not make.

Originally posted by mamabeth
reply to post by SoymilkAlaska

 

So,I am considered a terrorist, in your opinion, because
I believe in spanking.

You also consider me a child abuser and assumed that
I was going to beat my children because of your post.

Think again and definately think before you post

well hopefully not.

this thread really made my blood boil.

and in your other post it really seemed as if you actually enjoyed hitting them with a "nice green switch"

Originally posted by SoymilkAlaska

Originally posted by WhisperingWinds
Quite honestly , I can't see how spanking teaches anything except that physical harm is a means to get your way or make your point known.

There are far superior ways to discipline that will make a child think twice about their choices. Taking away privileges of watching favorite cartoons, favorite snacks, playtime, can be much more effective than hitting.

I think its ok to restrain a child if they are out of control physically, but the teaching comes later when a privilege is taken away and they are forced to think about the consequences of their actions.

The problem is that the discipline that will really send the right message across takes time and consistency , something not all parents have the time for.

Being a parent isn't easy at times, but I honestly can't see any merit in hitting your child. I know plenty of good people who did just fine in life without getting punished by physical abuse, as well as some who were subject to corporal punishment, that didn't do so well later on in their lives.

i agree.

at the same time though, well.

for example well....

went to school: got hit by kid. tell on kid. nothing happens. nothing is done about it.

repeat, the whole school year.


one day: hit kid back, because i am sick of being bullied, and nobody seems to care.

teacher immediately punishes me.

parents cancel my sleepover with friend, and take all my toys away.



what they all got: a really hateful kid that never listened to them ever ever again.




so... yes massive cruel and unusual punishment and manipulation of the system against an individuals right to happiness and freedom - a good kid does not make.

Some things just aren't fair, and I'm sorry you had to go through that.

It takes time to really get to the bottom of why certain things go down the way they do at school, and at home.

Parents aren't perfect, and they make mistakes, as well as teachers . Try not to let it taint your whole outlook on life, because becoming hateful will never help in the long haul.

Originally posted by WhisperingWinds

Originally posted by SoymilkAlaska

Originally posted by WhisperingWinds
Quite honestly , I can't see how spanking teaches anything except that physical harm is a means to get your way or make your point known.

There are far superior ways to discipline that will make a child think twice about their choices. Taking away privileges of watching favorite cartoons, favorite snacks, playtime, can be much more effective than hitting.

I think its ok to restrain a child if they are out of control physically, but the teaching comes later when a privilege is taken away and they are forced to think about the consequences of their actions.

The problem is that the discipline that will really send the right message across takes time and consistency , something not all parents have the time for.

Being a parent isn't easy at times, but I honestly can't see any merit in hitting your child. I know plenty of good people who did just fine in life without getting punished by physical abuse, as well as some who were subject to corporal punishment, that didn't do so well later on in their lives.

i agree.

at the same time though, well.

for example well....

went to school: got hit by kid. tell on kid. nothing happens. nothing is done about it.

repeat, the whole school year.


one day: hit kid back, because i am sick of being bullied, and nobody seems to care.

teacher immediately punishes me.

parents cancel my sleepover with friend, and take all my toys away.



what they all got: a really hateful kid that never listened to them ever ever again.




so... yes massive cruel and unusual punishment and manipulation of the system against an individuals right to happiness and freedom - a good kid does not make.

Some things just aren't fair, and I'm sorry you had to go through that.

It takes time to really get to the bottom of why certain things go down the way they do at school, and at home.

Parents aren't perfect, and they make mistakes, as well as teachers . Try not to let it taint your whole outlook on life, because becoming hateful will never help in the long haul.

sorry lol, just going over some bad memories, im different now

but what made me the most angry is that my parents never took my word for it.

i always had to tell them the truth over and over again, and they never trusted me, and even if they told me they believed me, just to get me out of their hair, they would still keep the punishment.

they would rather punish me, and have me scream the truth at them at the top of my lungs telling them i was innocent for days and days, and lie to me and tell me they believed me (to be lazy about it) than just be lazy and believe me and not punish me, (or to just ****ing trust me)


Phewwwwwww!

i feel much better lol.

reply to post by BBobb


According to the Dane County, Wisconsin court website the case is not concluded yet.

State of Wisconsin vs. Philip B Caminiti
Dane County Case Number 2011CF000479

In addition, if this is the case I remember, he was not simply speaking, he was standing by and almost forcing the parents to do the spanking, telling them it wasn't hard enough, and at least one child was injured! We are talking torture, not spanking.

I was beat with a wooden spoon as a kid, and I don't see anything wrong with it. But this supposed Pastor was going way above and beyond typical discipline. It usually takes one or two pops on the behind to get a kids attention and put the physical sense of pain along with the appropriate mental aspect of teaching consequences for actions. It does not require actual beatings. It might work on 1-5 year olds, but it becomes completely worthless and more of a physical assault than a teaching tool after the kids get to school age.

So, I'll wait until I can see what he was actually convicted of, and sentenced for, before I jump on the bandwagon. In all likelihood, this was a bad, bad man, and he deserves prison.

ETA:
Looks like there were instances of child abuse in 2006, 7, 8, 9, and 10.

Case Details

Ok, apparently a jury did convict him, and the judge did sentence him to 2 years plus 6 years supervision after his release.

Caminiti was found guilty by a jury in March of eight counts of conspiracy to commit child abuse for teaching church members what he said was a literal interpretation of discipline prescribed by the Bible, on children who were between the ages of 2 months and 5 years.

The practice, intended to teach children to behave correctly, was stopped after police intervened in November 2010.

"The children were beaten for of all things doing what children do, and that is crying," Sumi said.



Read more: host.madison.com...

And he did hit the kids himself, he didn't just teach it.

Philip Caminiti, 53, head pastor and elder at Aleitheia Bible Church, and his brother, John Caminiti, 45, also of Black Earth, allegedly hit the backsides of children with rods and dowels. The alleged victims are children in the Caminitis' family and other children whose families are part of the church

Read more: host.madison.com...

Real upstanding fellow, he also admits to "punishing" his wife for having any contact outside the church or family.

John Caminiti told investigators in November he uses a rod or dowel on his two youngest children at home or at church and the scriptures make it clear his behavior is allowed.

He said he does not allow his family to communicate with people outside his religious beliefs and has punished his wife and son by shunning, or confining them to their rooms to have no contact with other family members, until they corrected their disobedience.



Read more: host.madison.com...

Originally posted by getreadyalready
Ok, apparently a jury did convict him, and the judge did sentence him to 2 years plus 6 years supervision after his release.

Caminiti was found guilty by a jury in March of eight counts of conspiracy to commit child abuse for teaching church members what he said was a literal interpretation of discipline prescribed by the Bible, on children who were between the ages of 2 months and 5 years.

The practice, intended to teach children to behave correctly, was stopped after police intervened in November 2010.

"The children were beaten for of all things doing what children do, and that is crying," Sumi said.



Read more: host.madison.com...

And he did hit the kids himself, he didn't just teach it.

Philip Caminiti, 53, head pastor and elder at Aleitheia Bible Church, and his brother, John Caminiti, 45, also of Black Earth, allegedly hit the backsides of children with rods and dowels. The alleged victims are children in the Caminitis' family and other children whose families are part of the church

Read more: host.madison.com...

Real upstanding fellow, he also admits to "punishing" his wife for having any contact outside the church or family.

John Caminiti told investigators in November he uses a rod or dowel on his two youngest children at home or at church and the scriptures make it clear his behavior is allowed.

He said he does not allow his family to communicate with people outside his religious beliefs and has punished his wife and son by shunning, or confining them to their rooms to have no contact with other family members, until they corrected their disobedience.



Read more: host.madison.com...

edit on 30-5-2012 by getreadyalready because: (no reason given)

where are the parents that sat in church and watched this guy beat their kids up?


why are there not any parents going to jail for agreeing with this guy?


how is it possible that not every single last one of these people stood up and walked out the second this guy started preaching evil **** like this?

reply to post by SoymilkAlaska


Great question!

Indoctrination is powerful? Parents are so bad these days that they'll latch onto any absurd solution? The system is so screwed up that parents don't know what is right and wrong anymore, so they look to any authority figure to tell them?

I don't know, but there sure are some weak minds out there these days.

This is GREAT news.

The sooner they start locking up pastors and frauds like them the BETTER. I shall sleep far better tonight knowing one more is off the streets.

I have had a hand in the downfall of many a minister, pastor, priest and each one gives me JOY!!!!

there are many of us out there assisting them in removing these types of people from the public. One religion at a time.

Religious groups or as I call the terrorist cult cells, have long had too much control on the people. The people don't realize it yet but they are better of without it.

reply to post by Six6Six


This post has been one of the saddest that I have read here.
I am speechless and can't find the words to describe how I
am feeling right now.

Freedom of speech and freedom to exercise religion (two First Amendment rights) are being disregarded here. The judge is the one who should be charged with a crime.

Originally posted by Six6Six
This is GREAT news.

The sooner they start locking up pastors and frauds like them the BETTER. I shall sleep far better tonight knowing one more is off the streets.

I have had a hand in the downfall of many a minister, pastor, priest and each one gives me JOY!!!!

there are many of us out there assisting them in removing these types of people from the public. One religion at a time.

Religious groups or as I call the terrorist cult cells, have long had too much control on the people. The people don't realize it yet but they are better of without it.

My sister knew a girl whose hobby was seducing Priests. Your great joy statement reminded me of her.

Good luck when you meet your maker, because he is not the boss you are working for now, Six6Six.

Originally posted by sad_eyed_lady
Freedom of speech and freedom to exercise religion (two First Amendment rights) are being disregarded here. The judge is the one who should be charged with a crime.

Wrong.

Go read the charges. He, and his brother, beat their kids with wooden dowels at ages as young as 2 months, for misbehavior such as crying. He also locked his wife in a room to punish her for insubordination. He also instructed other parents on how to beat their kids, and he would stand by and watch, and tell them it wasn't hard enough, and make them hit the kids over and over again, harder each time, even when the parents did not want to do it.

He was convicted by a jury, not a judge. The judge just assigned the 2 year sentence, which is actually pretty light for multiple cases of felony child abuse that spanned 6 years!

This was a horrendous man that actually got a light sentence. If you read this same story, framed from a different perspective, you would be mad at the judge for going light on this evil monster.

Originally posted by sad_eyed_lady
Freedom of speech and freedom to exercise religion (two First Amendment rights) are being disregarded here. The judge is the one who should be charged with a crime.

all humans have rights, you should be ashamed of yourself.


how would you feel if some preacher told your parents to spank you?


or if the preacher even spanked you himself?

Originally posted by smyleegrl
I've been on the receiving end of many a deserved spanking.

It wasn't abuse and I thank God my parents disciplined me. Otherwise who knows how my life might have turned out?

It will be interesting to see if the government can actually keep this pastor from a church. I would think seperation of church and state would come into play here.

Edit to Add: Just read the post where the pastor was encouraging his flock to spank infants. That is abuse, in my opinion. An infant wouldn't even understand the reason behind the punishment. So....yeah. I think he got what he deserved.

edit on 30-5-2012 by smyleegrl because: (no reason given)

Agreed 100% and *4U
I too got my fair share, and without the sting of the rod, the sting of the law would have been much worse.
btw smyleegrl, I like your new avatar (new 2 me).

When did spanking become caining -- looks as if a bunch of you think using dowels and wooden spoons is hunky dory. I weep

reply to post by spyder550


I don't know. I don't think it is the dowel rod or spoon that is the problem, although i would never use a rod, I think the noise of a smack with the flat surface is more effective than the actual impact. Using a dowel would seem to be less dramatic, and more painful, with lasting bruises. I can't imagine using a dowel.

Still, regardless of the vehicle, the intentions behind the swat are the problem. It should be a learning tool to equate pain and natural consequences to some action. It shouldn't be a beating, it should just be a reminder to drive home a lesson. Using it on anyone less than 1 1/2 or 2 years old is stupid, and using it on someone older than 5 or 6 is stupid. Hitting them repeatedly is just torture, not teaching, and hitting them without a firm lecture, or lesson to illustrate cause and effect in a way they can comprehend is just assault.

I'm a fan of spanking, but not beating, not caning, not doing it to someone that can't even understand why, and not doing it to someone almost as big as myself. It has a very narrow window of opportunity to be effective.

Originally posted by spyder550
When did spanking become caining -- looks as if a bunch of you think using dowels and wooden spoons is hunky dory. I weep

Making a child do push-ups is a much more positive correction tool than hitting ever will be. Too little to do push-ups? try a time-out chair (1 minute for every year of age). Restrictions of privileges such as TV or playing with friends for a day is more acceptable to me.

Hitting a child teaches them that picking on someone smaller or weaker than you is acceptable.

"Whatsoever you do to the least of my brothers, that you do unto me." - Jesus

reply to post by sad_eyed_lady


I disagree. I can explain a hot stove a million times, but until they equate pain with "hot" they don't understand it. Should I let them touch the stove? Put them in time out so they'll try again later? Or should I swat their hand and make sure they remember "touch stove = pain."

try a time-out chair (1 minute for every year of age). Restrictions of privileges such as TV or playing with friends for a day is more acceptable to me.

I spent the weekend with my little bad nephew. He is 3. His parents both work for child welfare services. They would never dream of hitting him, so they use the 1 minute per year of age rule you mention. He screams at them, hits them, runs away from them, hits the other kids, screams at the shrillest possible level, etc., etc. I grabbed him by his arm as he ran from his father, and I gave him a little jolt and muttered, "sit your ass down," and he sat down, shut up, and looked at me wide-eyed. I didn't have to hit him, but I did use physical correction and intimidation. He listens to me better than his own parents!

My kids are barely older than him, and they occasionally get in trouble, but they would never dream of saying "no" and running away from me. Oh my god, the thought of that would send shivers down their spines, because they know I would eventually get a hold of them!

Much better to just be honest, take your lumps, and move on with the rest of your day. If you do something wrong, you take responsibility for it, and you make amends, and you accept whatever consequences may come. When they do that, they usually have almost no consequence, but if they tried to do what the nephew does????

reply to post by sad_eyed_lady

"Whatsoever you do to the least of my brothers, that you do unto me." - Jesus

If Jesus tried to rip his hand out of mine and run across a busy street, you better believe I would blister his behind! He knows it is just because I love him, LOL!