When was King Jesus killed?, page 1
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Topic started on 21-4-2003 @ 03:20 PM by mikromarius
Moses on Passover and the calendar:
The Passover sacrifice marks the end of the slavery under the Egyptians and the start of the long walk through the desert towards the Land and was the first law Moses introduced that was instructed by God. Since then this sacrificial meal has been an eternal tradition of Israel and has marked the start of the week of the unleavened bread. On the tenth day of the first month according to the Mosaic callendar, the lamb is chosen, on the fourteenth day the lamb is slaughtered and eaten and unleavened bread is eaten until the twentyfirst day of the month. On the first day and the last day of this week noone shall work (there is a mystery here though, for Passover lasts for a total of eight days plus the day of preparation, Erev Pesach, not seven as written in Ex 12:15 when we concider the words from Ex 12:18. The same mystery we meet in Genesis 1, when does the day start? My guess is that the people who wrote down the books of Moses were bad mathmaticans, or that I am stupid of course). The month was counted from new Moon to new Moon (Kodesh means new Moon is also used for month and monthly) and the day from sundown to sundown as written in Leviticus 23:32. The Passover lamb was eaten just after Sundown the first day of Passover 14 days after the start of the Mosaic lunar month of Abib.
Gospels of Matthew, Mark and Luke on the crucifiction:
We know from these gospels that Jesus was captured during the night after the first day of the Passover week had started, for Jesus and his disciples had eaten the Passover meal the same night as he was captured. During the night he was trialed before the Sanhedrin. When the morning came he was brought before Pilate and judged, Judas hanged himself when he understood what he had done and Jesus was crucified. He died around the ninth hour. According to these three gospels there was a darkening of the Sun while he hung on the cross and according to Mark and Luke this lasted for three hours until Jesus died. Matthew also talks of an earthquake that made cracks in the rocks. All this happened in one single day. As soon as the first day of Passover was over, Joseph of Arimathea asked Pilate to hand his dead body over to him, and he buried him in a new tomb. This was at the beginning of the second day at sundown. Three days after he died, on a Sunday morning the tomb was found empty, for Jesus was risen from the dead.
In other words; according to these three gospels, Jesus and his disciples ate the Passover meal just after sundown on a Tuesday, he was killed on a Wednesday. He was buried after sundown the same day (when a new day had started according to the Jewish callendar and there was no longer sabbath) and was dead Thursday, Friday and Saturday to fulfill his own prophecy and the prophecy of Jonah. On Sunday at sunrise three days after he died his tomb was found empty.
The date given by the Church can't possibly be right if the story of these three gospels are true. This is because in year 30 Passover started with the Passover meal on Wednesday evening and Jesus can't possibly have fulfilled his own prophecy about his death and ressurection and the prophecy given in Jonah and the Gospel if he was killed on Friday. Besides none of the gospels say that he was killed on a Friday. The Sabbath in question is the first day of Passover.
Conclusion:
I'm afraid the accounts of Matthew, Mark and Luke, at least about the crucifiction, are not likely to be true. In none of the years between 26 and 37 did Passover start at Tuesday evening, so Jesus' prophecy about his death and ressurection and that of Jonah could not have been fulfilled. And as there are no records of any earthquake or eclipse from the area at the time except for the Biblical accounts. By the way a total eclipse of the Sun is not just unlikely, it is impossible as Passover is always celebrated when the Moon is full, when the Moon is on the opposite side of the Earth. If the Sun was darkened, there would have to be another reason for this, something that is plausible and not unlikely as this happens from time to time in the Middle East because of giant dust clouds brought up in the air by the wind, covering the Sun. But anyway, at least some other than the source for Matthew would have noticed all the saints that rose from the dead and flooded in to the city. Another thing is that Jesus was trialed before the Sanhedrin during the night according to Matthew and Mark. I doubt this could have happened as they had strict laws against this. Luke says that he was trialed during the day, but this is also unlikely with the views the priests and the politicans had about not doing any work whatsoever on the Sabbath except for the usual service in the synagogues and in the Temple of course, the first and the last day of Passover is Sabbath. So my conclusion is that Matthew, Mark and Luke are not correct and are not to be trusted about the whereabouts of Jesus the Messiah when he was trialed, executed and rose from the dead. I caracterise their views as a sensationalist tabloid version of the crucifiction probably based on rumours and oral testimonies, not first hand witnesses. I also want to add that Acts is written by the same person who wrote the Gospel according to Luke, so perhaps it's wise to add a little salt here too.
The Gospel of John on the crucifiction:
With John the story is a different one, and it's very likely that the writer of this Gospel was infact an eye witness as he claims, for here Jesus was captured before Passover, or to be more spesific, on the day before Passover, the preparation day -- Erev Pesach (John 19:14). In 18:28 it is even said that the Jews didn't enter the fortress of Pilate in order to avoid becoming unclean before they should eat the Passover meal. The first and the last day of Passover is Sabbath for the Lord according to Exodus 12:16, no work shall be done, so this is why he couldn't be hanging on the cross as written in John 19:31, for when the Sun went down, the Passover Sabbath started and the sacrificial meal was prepared and served according to the law is as written in Exodus 12:6.
With the information given in the Gospel of John about the crucifiction and the words of Jesus about rising after three days and the prophecy of Jonah and the historic facts given, the only possible day Jesus could have been crucified was Wednesday the 3rd of April year 30 AD or Erev Pesach 14th of Nisan the year 3790. And he had risen before the Sun rose Sunday 7th. John makes no sensational recordings of any earthquakes, darkened Sun fenomena or multi ressurection of saints or veils torn appart in the Temple.
Conclusion:
The Gospel of John is the only likely alternative as to when Jesus was crucified. According to the Gospel of John Jesus was killed on Erev Pesach the year 3790 (Preparation day before Passover, Wednesday 3rd of April year 30 AD) and the tomb was found empty shortly before Sunrise on the third day Omer the same year (Sunday 7th). This way he would fulfill his own prophecy about his death and ressurection and that of Jonah. All historic nessesities are present, and there is no mention about earthquakes or solar eclipses. My conclution is that John is a credible source to what happened during the days of trial, crucifiction and ressurection.
Blessings,
Mikromarius
The calendar I've used is the great mac freeware application Jewish Calendar v2.1.2 by Avi Drissman, drissman@acm.org, originally by Frank Yellin, fy@fyellin.com, www.drissman.com...
The Passover sacrifice marks the end of the slavery under the Egyptians and the start of the long walk through the desert towards the Land and was the first law Moses introduced that was instructed by God. Since then this sacrificial meal has been an eternal tradition of Israel and has marked the start of the week of the unleavened bread. On the tenth day of the first month according to the Mosaic callendar, the lamb is chosen, on the fourteenth day the lamb is slaughtered and eaten and unleavened bread is eaten until the twentyfirst day of the month. On the first day and the last day of this week noone shall work (there is a mystery here though, for Passover lasts for a total of eight days plus the day of preparation, Erev Pesach, not seven as written in Ex 12:15 when we concider the words from Ex 12:18. The same mystery we meet in Genesis 1, when does the day start? My guess is that the people who wrote down the books of Moses were bad mathmaticans, or that I am stupid of course). The month was counted from new Moon to new Moon (Kodesh means new Moon is also used for month and monthly) and the day from sundown to sundown as written in Leviticus 23:32. The Passover lamb was eaten just after Sundown the first day of Passover 14 days after the start of the Mosaic lunar month of Abib.
Gospels of Matthew, Mark and Luke on the crucifiction:
We know from these gospels that Jesus was captured during the night after the first day of the Passover week had started, for Jesus and his disciples had eaten the Passover meal the same night as he was captured. During the night he was trialed before the Sanhedrin. When the morning came he was brought before Pilate and judged, Judas hanged himself when he understood what he had done and Jesus was crucified. He died around the ninth hour. According to these three gospels there was a darkening of the Sun while he hung on the cross and according to Mark and Luke this lasted for three hours until Jesus died. Matthew also talks of an earthquake that made cracks in the rocks. All this happened in one single day. As soon as the first day of Passover was over, Joseph of Arimathea asked Pilate to hand his dead body over to him, and he buried him in a new tomb. This was at the beginning of the second day at sundown. Three days after he died, on a Sunday morning the tomb was found empty, for Jesus was risen from the dead.
In other words; according to these three gospels, Jesus and his disciples ate the Passover meal just after sundown on a Tuesday, he was killed on a Wednesday. He was buried after sundown the same day (when a new day had started according to the Jewish callendar and there was no longer sabbath) and was dead Thursday, Friday and Saturday to fulfill his own prophecy and the prophecy of Jonah. On Sunday at sunrise three days after he died his tomb was found empty.
The date given by the Church can't possibly be right if the story of these three gospels are true. This is because in year 30 Passover started with the Passover meal on Wednesday evening and Jesus can't possibly have fulfilled his own prophecy about his death and ressurection and the prophecy given in Jonah and the Gospel if he was killed on Friday. Besides none of the gospels say that he was killed on a Friday. The Sabbath in question is the first day of Passover.
Conclusion:
I'm afraid the accounts of Matthew, Mark and Luke, at least about the crucifiction, are not likely to be true. In none of the years between 26 and 37 did Passover start at Tuesday evening, so Jesus' prophecy about his death and ressurection and that of Jonah could not have been fulfilled. And as there are no records of any earthquake or eclipse from the area at the time except for the Biblical accounts. By the way a total eclipse of the Sun is not just unlikely, it is impossible as Passover is always celebrated when the Moon is full, when the Moon is on the opposite side of the Earth. If the Sun was darkened, there would have to be another reason for this, something that is plausible and not unlikely as this happens from time to time in the Middle East because of giant dust clouds brought up in the air by the wind, covering the Sun. But anyway, at least some other than the source for Matthew would have noticed all the saints that rose from the dead and flooded in to the city. Another thing is that Jesus was trialed before the Sanhedrin during the night according to Matthew and Mark. I doubt this could have happened as they had strict laws against this. Luke says that he was trialed during the day, but this is also unlikely with the views the priests and the politicans had about not doing any work whatsoever on the Sabbath except for the usual service in the synagogues and in the Temple of course, the first and the last day of Passover is Sabbath. So my conclusion is that Matthew, Mark and Luke are not correct and are not to be trusted about the whereabouts of Jesus the Messiah when he was trialed, executed and rose from the dead. I caracterise their views as a sensationalist tabloid version of the crucifiction probably based on rumours and oral testimonies, not first hand witnesses. I also want to add that Acts is written by the same person who wrote the Gospel according to Luke, so perhaps it's wise to add a little salt here too.
The Gospel of John on the crucifiction:
With John the story is a different one, and it's very likely that the writer of this Gospel was infact an eye witness as he claims, for here Jesus was captured before Passover, or to be more spesific, on the day before Passover, the preparation day -- Erev Pesach (John 19:14). In 18:28 it is even said that the Jews didn't enter the fortress of Pilate in order to avoid becoming unclean before they should eat the Passover meal. The first and the last day of Passover is Sabbath for the Lord according to Exodus 12:16, no work shall be done, so this is why he couldn't be hanging on the cross as written in John 19:31, for when the Sun went down, the Passover Sabbath started and the sacrificial meal was prepared and served according to the law is as written in Exodus 12:6.
With the information given in the Gospel of John about the crucifiction and the words of Jesus about rising after three days and the prophecy of Jonah and the historic facts given, the only possible day Jesus could have been crucified was Wednesday the 3rd of April year 30 AD or Erev Pesach 14th of Nisan the year 3790. And he had risen before the Sun rose Sunday 7th. John makes no sensational recordings of any earthquakes, darkened Sun fenomena or multi ressurection of saints or veils torn appart in the Temple.
Conclusion:
The Gospel of John is the only likely alternative as to when Jesus was crucified. According to the Gospel of John Jesus was killed on Erev Pesach the year 3790 (Preparation day before Passover, Wednesday 3rd of April year 30 AD) and the tomb was found empty shortly before Sunrise on the third day Omer the same year (Sunday 7th). This way he would fulfill his own prophecy about his death and ressurection and that of Jonah. All historic nessesities are present, and there is no mention about earthquakes or solar eclipses. My conclution is that John is a credible source to what happened during the days of trial, crucifiction and ressurection.
Blessings,
Mikromarius
The calendar I've used is the great mac freeware application Jewish Calendar v2.1.2 by Avi Drissman, drissman@acm.org, originally by Frank Yellin, fy@fyellin.com, www.drissman.com...
. It must have been quite a sight. This guy falling four meters down
on his back with the top of the tree in his hands and feet... Anyway, I was driven up to the hospital for a checkup since I was almost unable to
breathe. I ended up with a foot long draining tube about a centimeter thick through my chest, and what came out? A mixture of blood and water. It was
quite a revelation to me
. Some of these people have had a troubled childhood, others are hyperactive, many of
them have brighter souls than you and is loved more by our Father than most of us. Here are many sad destinies, so stuff up that dragon mouth of yours
and stop judging my friends without ever having met them. Heroinism is a desease. It starts like a miracle medicine and ends up as a cause of extreme
hunger and unimaginable pain 
reply posted on 30-4-2003 @ 02:49 AM by jagdflieger
mikromarius check out this page www.phys.uu.nl/~vgent/easter/eastercalculator.htm
It gives the following dates for passover:
Our Year Hebrew Year Day of Week Our Date
30 AD 3790 Thursday 6 April
31 AD 3791 Tuesday 27 March
32 AD 3792 Tuesday 15 April
33 AD 3793 Saturday 4 April
34 AD 3794 Tuesday 23 March
35 AD 3795 Tuesday 12 April
36 AD 3796 Saturday 31 March
37 AD 3797 Thursday 21 March
I was always told that the year of Jesus's crucifixion was 33 AD (This year also conforms quite
nicely with the 70 Weeks of Daniel (Daniel Chapter 9). Jesus was arrested and
tried on Thursday night and our Friday morning (our AM) and crucifixed during Friday
day time (as far as the Jews were concerned it was still Thursday since the new Jewish
day did not begin until sundown (actually it was 6 PM out time).
It gives the following dates for passover:
Our Year Hebrew Year Day of Week Our Date
30 AD 3790 Thursday 6 April
31 AD 3791 Tuesday 27 March
32 AD 3792 Tuesday 15 April
33 AD 3793 Saturday 4 April
34 AD 3794 Tuesday 23 March
35 AD 3795 Tuesday 12 April
36 AD 3796 Saturday 31 March
37 AD 3797 Thursday 21 March
I was always told that the year of Jesus's crucifixion was 33 AD (This year also conforms quite
nicely with the 70 Weeks of Daniel (Daniel Chapter 9). Jesus was arrested and
tried on Thursday night and our Friday morning (our AM) and crucifixed during Friday
day time (as far as the Jews were concerned it was still Thursday since the new Jewish
day did not begin until sundown (actually it was 6 PM out time).
reply posted on 30-4-2003 @ 08:01 AM by mikromarius
Originally posted by jagdflieger
mikromarius check out this page www.phys.uu.nl/~vgent/easter/eastercalculator.htm
It gives the following dates for passover:
Our Year Hebrew Year Day of Week Our Date
30 AD 3790 Thursday 6 April
31 AD 3791 Tuesday 27 March
32 AD 3792 Tuesday 15 April
33 AD 3793 Saturday 4 April
34 AD 3794 Tuesday 23 March
35 AD 3795 Tuesday 12 April
36 AD 3796 Saturday 31 March
37 AD 3797 Thursday 21 March
I was always told that the year of Jesus's crucifixion was 33 AD (This year also conforms quite
nicely with the 70 Weeks of Daniel (Daniel Chapter 9). Jesus was arrested and
tried on Thursday night and our Friday morning (our AM) and crucifixed during Friday
day time (as far as the Jews were concerned it was still Thursday since the new Jewish
day did not begin until sundown (actually it was 6 PM out time).
If you read my article you'll see that this is impossible. The Godpel of John is the only source that can be trusted, and the writers claim that he eye witnessed the whole process and execution may very well be true, for nothing seems to go against this version. Jesus was triealed and killed before the first Sabbath of Passover which is the first day of Passover when the Passover lamb is slaughtered. According to John Jesus was trialed and killed before Passover started. This fits perfectly with 30 AD. Infact 30 AD is the only year that fits the accounts of the Gospel of John, and where all persons inflicted can infact be inflicted. And not to mention the fulfillment of the Jonah prophecy and Jesus' own prophecies: Erev Pesach 30 AD is the only day of execution that fulfills the Jonah prophecy and Jesus own words. Jesus was dead three days and three nights, not just a night and a day that is the claim of the Catholic Church. It was also a tradition to release one prisoner before Passover, not during Passover, and Jesus Barrabas, the killer, was released the same day Jesus Christ stood before Pilate. Erev Pesach year 33 AD was on a Friday and probably fits in just fine with the 70 week prophecy, but how could King Jesus have fulfilled Jonah and his own prophecies if he was dead only a day?
Blessings,
Mikromarius
[Edited on 30-4-2003 by mikromarius]
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