When was King Jesus killed?

Moses on Passover and the calendar:
The Passover sacrifice marks the end of the slavery under the Egyptians and the start of the long walk through the desert towards the Land and was the first law Moses introduced that was instructed by God. Since then this sacrificial meal has been an eternal tradition of Israel and has marked the start of the week of the unleavened bread. On the tenth day of the first month according to the Mosaic callendar, the lamb is chosen, on the fourteenth day the lamb is slaughtered and eaten and unleavened bread is eaten until the twentyfirst day of the month. On the first day and the last day of this week noone shall work (there is a mystery here though, for Passover lasts for a total of eight days plus the day of preparation, Erev Pesach, not seven as written in Ex 12:15 when we concider the words from Ex 12:18. The same mystery we meet in Genesis 1, when does the day start? My guess is that the people who wrote down the books of Moses were bad mathmaticans, or that I am stupid of course). The month was counted from new Moon to new Moon (Kodesh means new Moon is also used for month and monthly) and the day from sundown to sundown as written in Leviticus 23:32. The Passover lamb was eaten just after Sundown the first day of Passover 14 days after the start of the Mosaic lunar month of Abib.

Gospels of Matthew, Mark and Luke on the crucifiction:
We know from these gospels that Jesus was captured during the night after the first day of the Passover week had started, for Jesus and his disciples had eaten the Passover meal the same night as he was captured. During the night he was trialed before the Sanhedrin. When the morning came he was brought before Pilate and judged, Judas hanged himself when he understood what he had done and Jesus was crucified. He died around the ninth hour. According to these three gospels there was a darkening of the Sun while he hung on the cross and according to Mark and Luke this lasted for three hours until Jesus died. Matthew also talks of an earthquake that made cracks in the rocks. All this happened in one single day. As soon as the first day of Passover was over, Joseph of Arimathea asked Pilate to hand his dead body over to him, and he buried him in a new tomb. This was at the beginning of the second day at sundown. Three days after he died, on a Sunday morning the tomb was found empty, for Jesus was risen from the dead.
In other words; according to these three gospels, Jesus and his disciples ate the Passover meal just after sundown on a Tuesday, he was killed on a Wednesday. He was buried after sundown the same day (when a new day had started according to the Jewish callendar and there was no longer sabbath) and was dead Thursday, Friday and Saturday to fulfill his own prophecy and the prophecy of Jonah. On Sunday at sunrise three days after he died his tomb was found empty.

The date given by the Church can't possibly be right if the story of these three gospels are true. This is because in year 30 Passover started with the Passover meal on Wednesday evening and Jesus can't possibly have fulfilled his own prophecy about his death and ressurection and the prophecy given in Jonah and the Gospel if he was killed on Friday. Besides none of the gospels say that he was killed on a Friday. The Sabbath in question is the first day of Passover.

Conclusion:
I'm afraid the accounts of Matthew, Mark and Luke, at least about the crucifiction, are not likely to be true. In none of the years between 26 and 37 did Passover start at Tuesday evening, so Jesus' prophecy about his death and ressurection and that of Jonah could not have been fulfilled. And as there are no records of any earthquake or eclipse from the area at the time except for the Biblical accounts. By the way a total eclipse of the Sun is not just unlikely, it is impossible as Passover is always celebrated when the Moon is full, when the Moon is on the opposite side of the Earth. If the Sun was darkened, there would have to be another reason for this, something that is plausible and not unlikely as this happens from time to time in the Middle East because of giant dust clouds brought up in the air by the wind, covering the Sun. But anyway, at least some other than the source for Matthew would have noticed all the saints that rose from the dead and flooded in to the city. Another thing is that Jesus was trialed before the Sanhedrin during the night according to Matthew and Mark. I doubt this could have happened as they had strict laws against this. Luke says that he was trialed during the day, but this is also unlikely with the views the priests and the politicans had about not doing any work whatsoever on the Sabbath except for the usual service in the synagogues and in the Temple of course, the first and the last day of Passover is Sabbath. So my conclusion is that Matthew, Mark and Luke are not correct and are not to be trusted about the whereabouts of Jesus the Messiah when he was trialed, executed and rose from the dead. I caracterise their views as a sensationalist tabloid version of the crucifiction probably based on rumours and oral testimonies, not first hand witnesses. I also want to add that Acts is written by the same person who wrote the Gospel according to Luke, so perhaps it's wise to add a little salt here too.

The Gospel of John on the crucifiction:
With John the story is a different one, and it's very likely that the writer of this Gospel was infact an eye witness as he claims, for here Jesus was captured before Passover, or to be more spesific, on the day before Passover, the preparation day -- Erev Pesach (John 19:14). In 18:28 it is even said that the Jews didn't enter the fortress of Pilate in order to avoid becoming unclean before they should eat the Passover meal. The first and the last day of Passover is Sabbath for the Lord according to Exodus 12:16, no work shall be done, so this is why he couldn't be hanging on the cross as written in John 19:31, for when the Sun went down, the Passover Sabbath started and the sacrificial meal was prepared and served according to the law is as written in Exodus 12:6.
With the information given in the Gospel of John about the crucifiction and the words of Jesus about rising after three days and the prophecy of Jonah and the historic facts given, the only possible day Jesus could have been crucified was Wednesday the 3rd of April year 30 AD or Erev Pesach 14th of Nisan the year 3790. And he had risen before the Sun rose Sunday 7th. John makes no sensational recordings of any earthquakes, darkened Sun fenomena or multi ressurection of saints or veils torn appart in the Temple.

Conclusion:
The Gospel of John is the only likely alternative as to when Jesus was crucified. According to the Gospel of John Jesus was killed on Erev Pesach the year 3790 (Preparation day before Passover, Wednesday 3rd of April year 30 AD) and the tomb was found empty shortly before Sunrise on the third day Omer the same year (Sunday 7th). This way he would fulfill his own prophecy about his death and ressurection and that of Jonah. All historic nessesities are present, and there is no mention about earthquakes or solar eclipses. My conclution is that John is a credible source to what happened during the days of trial, crucifiction and ressurection.

Blessings,
Mikromarius

The calendar I've used is the great mac freeware application Jewish Calendar v2.1.2 by Avi Drissman, drissman@acm.org, originally by Frank Yellin, fy@fyellin.com, www.drissman.com...

and ye shall find the truth. He'd already pulled the resurrection trick before, with Lazarus, and almost the same way. (likely one of several poisons that slow body functions and give the appearance of death)... I always found it funny that Jesus' miraculous resurrection just happened to be on a dear friend's land....in the words of the Church Lady...."Isn't that Conveeeeeenient!"

where can i find some of those 'body slowing death appearance' poisons? i might want to get out of school for a week or so. haaa that'd be funny. i'd get some people really scared.

Why not start with heroin. I have many friends who have died and come to life using this drug. Opium was not unknown to the doctors at the time. Theoretically the winegar they let him drink could have been a mixture of herbs leaving Jesus unconcious, but I guess it's pretty far fetched to say that is the answer. The death and ressurrection of Jesus is just one out of many miracles he pulled. Besides why all the fuzz about drugs anyway? There are several examples that show how people after having been dead for days suddenly open their coffins and say Hi here I am... This is a well known fenomena and it doesn't include herbs or drugs. There are stories of graves being opened with screatchmarks inside and some stories even speek of women giving birth inside coffins. Around the turn of the 20th century it was common among rich people to install buzzers inside the coffins so that if they were to be burried alive, a bell could be rung above the ground. Virgin birth is also a phenomena that has been recorded several times in nature. I've heared that rabbits have given birth without ever having been in touch with a male. And with snails it happens all the time. The latest would be the shark that gave birth after having been isolated for six years. God created Eve. It is possible that God encoded her DNA for virgin birth in a specific generation. Jesus was the seventh son of the seventh son... And I guess that it could be trigged through Spirit too. We know from the story of Abraham, that Sara gave birth when she was at least 70 years old. This miraculous birth occured 42 generations before Jesus (6*7=42). God loves the number seven in Creation.

Blessings,
Mikromarius

When the officer pierced Jesus in the side with his lance, he could actually have helped Jesus in surviving. We know that Jesus was tortured before he was hung on the cross, he was beat and bruiced and this may have resulted in him puncturing a longue. What happens when you get a longue pierced is that the thorax (chest) is filled with the air that is supposed to go through the longues, and blood from the wound and water from the air fills the thorax. If not treated, the pressure inside the thorax is multiplied and respiratory processes cannot continue after a while if not the air and fluids are somehow let out. And this might just have been the case with Jesus. They knew Jesus was dead since blood mixed with water poured out of his chest when he was pierced in the side.

Some time ago I fell down from a tree while attempting to do my favorite Jackass stunt. I was supposed to jump from a four meter high tree and down into a bush. Unfortunately the tree was old and weak and I fell four meters down on my back and punctured my left longue (I didn't brake any bones either, probably since too much smoke has entered my temple over the years :lol. It must have been quite a sight. This guy falling four meters down on his back with the top of the tree in his hands and feet... Anyway, I was driven up to the hospital for a checkup since I was almost unable to breathe. I ended up with a foot long draining tube about a centimeter thick through my chest, and what came out? A mixture of blood and water. It was quite a revelation to me

Blessings,
mikromarius

PS: the heroin thing was a joke. Don't use it, it's killed many of my friends for good. Not all of them have survived. Heroin is the devil's recepie!

Your friends have never died and come back to life. Our idea of death is "brain dead" which is a physical death. For all you know your friends are long gone, their souls departed, and the souls that now inhabit their bodies simply remember everything that the body remembers.

Some day I'm sure we'll decide to find a way to know if someone is dead, versus, no longer with us.

Afterall if we don't have souls we don't exist, for existance and non-existance are infinite, and we are one or the other, there is no "the time is now, this is our time", we exist in all time in one form or another.

Don't tell me you are one of these Athiests who just thinks he can debunk god so easily.

Einstien was a Jew, and Hawkings hasn't Debunked God any better...

You could have fact upon fact, theory on top of theory, but to one with blind faith...it all means nothing.

I still find it amazing that people accept 2000 yr old fairy tales as absolute truth, even when written by people who thought that thunder was the anger of the Gods...

They all say it them selves, the ministers of the bible. To be lead by the blind ye all will fall into a ditch. Well blind faith falls into that category. So I listen, but dont follow. The only blindness that will travel with me is colorblindness.

Let's just say that I am a Christian and many of my childhood friends have ended up as drug slaves. If I were you I would perhaps think twise before I'd judged people I didn't know. Saying they are soulless . Some of these people have had a troubled childhood, others are hyperactive, many of them have brighter souls than you and is loved more by our Father than most of us. Here are many sad destinies, so stuff up that dragon mouth of yours and stop judging my friends without ever having met them. Heroinism is a desease. It starts like a miracle medicine and ends up as a cause of extreme hunger and unimaginable pain

I don't know about you, but I love my brothers and sisters no matter how deep into the marsh they have sunken. I owe them that as a brother in Christ, and blood is thicker than water, or as in your case urine, for you certainly piss on my brothers' and sisters' graves

Repent now, or you might be one of the goats whom Jesus sends to the pit of fire for not having helped him when he was in need, and you'll be the one without soul. To me you're just a self rightious asshole who needs to open his eyes and ears to the truth and the way of the Gospel. Jesus showed us the way by eating with and preaching to publicans and sinners. It is the sick who needs a doctor, not the well.

May God forgive you!
Mikromarius

I generally consider myself to be a good person. I don't smoke, don't do drugs, rarely have a drink, don't swear (much), and respect my elders, etc. I am charitable (usually to a fault...a lot of people owe me money, hehe), I love my family and friends. I would give them the shirt off my back, many times I've risked my neck for total strangers. I try to treat others as I wish to be treated.

Now for all of this, when I die....if I am wrong, and there really is a God...and I am cast into Hell just because while I was on Earth, I chose not to believe in him...then my non-worship of him will be fully justified, because such a being is not worthy of worship...being too vain to be worthy of such.

This is the basic paradox of worshipping God in my opinion, and one of the main reasons behind my lack of faith.


P.S.-Why did it edit out "s-h-i-r-t"?



[Edited on 23-4-2003 by Gazrok]

To believe in God is to do his will. And to do his will is to believe in Love and to love eachother. On several occations in the apocrypha Jesus says that his disciples should not write down anything he said or did, they should rather live as he did, for the law is written in our hearts when we are born, not in some letter from Paul to a congregation minister.

You sound like a good person, and I'm sure you will be welcomed by God on equal terms as any church-goer . Who knows, perhaps you will have a better welcoming

Blessings,
Mikromarius

"Jesus never died!!!!"

Abraham Virtue would say>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>


"Jesus???"

Hey Gazrok I thought I would drop you this line since you dont believe in God. One night I was helplessly trying to get to sleep and for some reason I couldnt. I just felt as if I wouldnt wake up if I went to sleep. My wife kept asking me what was wrong and I tld her and she said well lets go to the jospital and I said no something is telling me to pray. She said ok lets pray. So I got on my knees and started asking for Jesus to come into my heart and life and asking him to forgive me ...the only way I know how to describe how much I wanted for him to do this for me would be the same as someone holding a gun to my babies head and how much I would not want to see my son shot is how badly I wanted Jesus to do this for me. All of the sudden I felt as if someone was behind me I mean for an instant I thought hey someone is behind me and I needed to jump up and see you know..Like hey someone is in my house...and very quickly I heard an audable voice say "Dont be afraid". And an instant calm came over me. Then he stepped forward and stepped right into my body right into me and I frlt as if light was coming out of every part of my body.Then I fell to the floor into my wifes ams and was weeping like a child and I felt so clean...this was him...Jesus washing me clean of all my sins....and then all the sudden I stood and said "speak through me "and it was like an amplifier you know the little jack you plug in... some one{Jesus?Holy sprit/the LOrd??? plugged right inyo me and spoke through me for a while..It was not me talking it was a miracle ..he was using me for a voice and was talking right through me...Dont let me make a statement like like that wihout first saying that the first miracle was in fact when he saved me, that was THE miracle..yes him saving me!So you see Gaz there is a God...what I have testified here today is as true as the sun shining bright. Dont let this life take you down..there is a God just as he did send his son Jesus to die for you and me and all men, and there is a holy spirit. Waiting for you and all who are like you with open arms. Give him a chance you have nothing to lose except eternal life.

My feelings are that there are other "entities" among us (some call them ghosts, some call them angels, etc.) some helpful, others harmful. Semantics are just that, but they are there. This was likely simply a helpful one, who simply appeared to you in a way that you would accept it. Likewise, a muslim might have the same experience, and claim Mohammad came to see him. Just because I don't believe in the specific "God" does not mean that I believe in nothing spiritual...far from it. I simply don't accept a "supreme being", but rather a supreme state of being... Oh, and I don't let life get me down...in fact, I'm one of the happiest people I know.

PS-Thanks for sharing your story...

[Edited on 29-4-2003 by Gazrok]

mikromarius check out this page www.phys.uu.nl/~vgent/easter/eastercalculator.htm
It gives the following dates for passover:
Our Year Hebrew Year Day of Week Our Date

30 AD 3790 Thursday 6 April
31 AD 3791 Tuesday 27 March
32 AD 3792 Tuesday 15 April
33 AD 3793 Saturday 4 April
34 AD 3794 Tuesday 23 March
35 AD 3795 Tuesday 12 April
36 AD 3796 Saturday 31 March
37 AD 3797 Thursday 21 March

I was always told that the year of Jesus's crucifixion was 33 AD (This year also conforms quite
nicely with the 70 Weeks of Daniel (Daniel Chapter 9). Jesus was arrested and
tried on Thursday night and our Friday morning (our AM) and crucifixed during Friday
day time (as far as the Jews were concerned it was still Thursday since the new Jewish
day did not begin until sundown (actually it was 6 PM out time).

If you read my article you'll see that this is impossible. The Godpel of John is the only source that can be trusted, and the writers claim that he eye witnessed the whole process and execution may very well be true, for nothing seems to go against this version. Jesus was triealed and killed before the first Sabbath of Passover which is the first day of Passover when the Passover lamb is slaughtered. According to John Jesus was trialed and killed before Passover started. This fits perfectly with 30 AD. Infact 30 AD is the only year that fits the accounts of the Gospel of John, and where all persons inflicted can infact be inflicted. And not to mention the fulfillment of the Jonah prophecy and Jesus' own prophecies: Erev Pesach 30 AD is the only day of execution that fulfills the Jonah prophecy and Jesus own words. Jesus was dead three days and three nights, not just a night and a day that is the claim of the Catholic Church. It was also a tradition to release one prisoner before Passover, not during Passover, and Jesus Barrabas, the killer, was released the same day Jesus Christ stood before Pilate. Erev Pesach year 33 AD was on a Friday and probably fits in just fine with the 70 week prophecy, but how could King Jesus have fulfilled Jonah and his own prophecies if he was dead only a day?

Blessings,
Mikromarius

[Edited on 30-4-2003 by mikromarius]

mikromarius all four gospels state that Jesus was crucifed on the day before the Sabbath. If you want I could post the relevant passages. Now where in the Bible has the Sabbath been another day then the seventh day (Saturday to us)? The question is did the Jews ever use the word Sabbath to refer to a day other than the seventh day. (The word Sabbath refers to a unit of seven in Hebrew). Even John used the word Sabbath. In this case the crucifixion was on Friday.
(Interesting most of our names for the days of the week are based on pagan names: Thursday = Thor's Day, Friday = Friea's Day, Saturday = Saturn's Day.) The problem lies in using a literal definition of "three days and three nights" when it may be an idiom. Do not forget that the Jews counted the beginning and end days when they would say "three days". In short, if they started something on Monday (any time), continued on Tuesday, and finished on Wednesday (any time), they would say "three days". The term "three days and three nights" appears in the Bible three times.
The question is whether or not Jesus was refering to a literal 72 hour period or using an idiom. This is the problem when translating any document from one language to another. The translator must be aware of the idioms of the original language. One yours truly is familar with is that when you read the diaries and reports of Luftwaffe pilots, you will find references to "criminal" flights and missions. Well if these reports were to be translated literally you would assume that some illegal activity was going on. No, Luftwaffe pilots used the word "criminal" in the same was as US Air Force pilots use the word "hairy". You can well imagine what US pilots reports would sound like if they were literally translated. The point is, you must always be careful when reading translated material and determine if you dealing with an idiom or with something that should be read literally.

All the gospel accounts agree that Jesus died on Friday of Passover week. The Synoptics indicate the last Supper was Passovermeal (Matt.26:17-27; Mark 14:12; Luke 22:7-8), Thus the evening of Nisan 15. John on the other hand , indicates Passover was eaten after Jesus was crucified (18:28; 19:14). By Johns account, Jesus was crucified on Nisan14. Nisan 14 and 15 fell on Fridays four times in the time frame: AD 27,29,30,33. The most likley date for the crucifixion is Nisan 14 or 15, 30 A.D.
Traditionally John, the son of Zebedee is identified as the author and Ephesus the favoured place of composition, though many support a location in Syria (perhaps the city of Antioch), while some have suggested Alexandria.Difficulties for the theory of eyewitness authorship are obvious by the highly developed theology and elements of its literary style
Conflicting with the Synoptic gospels, the gospel of John is highly literary and symbolic. To a greater degree, it is the product of a developed theological reflection and grows out of a different circle of tradition.
The whole gospel of John is a progressive revelation of the glory of God's only son, who came to revel the Father and then returns in glory to the Father. The author's purpose is clearly expressed in what must have been the original ending of the gospel at ch 20.
Critical analysis makes it difficult to accept the idea that the gospel as it stands now was written by one person.Chapter 21 seem's to have been added at a later date and exibits a greek style somewhat different to the rest of the gospel. It is probable that it was written in the 90's of the first century.
Even with all its inconsistinces when related to the synoptic gospels John seems to go to great pains to show that woman are not inferior to men in the christian community; the woman at the well in Samaria (ch4) is presented as a prototype of a missionary (4,4-42) and the first witness of the resurrection is a woman.
-Food For Thought-
aye mate.


[Edited on 2-5-2003 by Maddas]

[Edited on 4-5-2003 by Maddas]

Bla bla bla. When Jesus lived the New testament wasn't written. Of course. When Jesus lived Every Christian were Jews. When Jesus lived every Jew knew, like every Jew does today, that the Sabbath doesn't mean Saturday, but Day of Resting. If you read the holy scriptures of Moses, you'll learn that the first day and the last day of Passover is Sabbath, and that according to the lunar callendar. This means that the first day of Passover seldom falls on a Saturday (!). Well. If Passover starts on a Thursday, this Thursday is Sabbath. A Godgiven restingday. In 30 AD the first Passover Sabbath was a Thursday, the next a Saturday, and the last, for God's sake count yourself. Sabbath isn't the name of a day in the week, it's anotherword for Godgiven Resting Day. Jesus was killed the night before the Passover Lamb was sacrificed. Pilate and Herod were ministering Roman Palestine. The only year Jesus could have been killed was 30 AD, and the only day he could have been killed was Wednesday the same year, the day before the first Passover Sabbath, which fell on a Thurday that year.

Hey, it's not my fault that the Catholic Church didn't care about Jesus only their own means of power. When the Catholic priests found out what I've been telling you for some time, they couldn't reverse it, because they folloed a law that said that the Church's word was holy and law and couldn't be regretted. It was the same law that sent the holy prophet Daniel to the lions' den. Babylon -- Babylon. Use your heads you've been given, don't make a sport out of quoting what secondhand believers have collected from unknown sources. The gospel of John tells the only reliable story. If you can't see this, you can't see anything

Blessings,
Mikromarius

Mik, you are pushing an empty barrow.

Firstly the exact date that the cricifiction happened doesn't matter. That it DID happen does.

Secondly if you are to ignore every mention in the bible about it in the NT then you are so far out in lala land that you are no longer credable.

Thirdly, no matter when it did happen, it happened. The entire christian faith rests upon it. Without the crucifixion there is no christianity.