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Homeless by Choice: How to Live for Free in America

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posted on May, 30 2012 @ 01:57 AM
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i had a pretty brilliant economics professor last semester, and i asked him "if slavery is the ownership of another's debt, then isn't our fiat money system a form of slavery? every dollar you own is a dollar someone else is in debt."

he thought for a moment, then said "i hadn't thought of it that way before, but yes, you are correct, because you need money to live."

my second question was "so now that you realize you are a slave, and are enslaving others (in far worse conditions, like china), where does consumerism end? because the premise of economic theory is based on the most effective allocation of scarce resources in an attempt to meet unlimited wants."

needless to say, he had no answer. happiness cannot be found in material things.




posted on May, 30 2012 @ 02:03 AM
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Originally posted by Bob Sholtz
because the premise of economic theory is based on the most effective allocation of scarce resources in an attempt to meet unlimited wants."


That should read...

Economic theory is based on the most effective allocation of artificially scarce resources in an attempt to meet unlimited wants.

Resources required for life are only scarce due to underproduction. We can't produce when the machinery to produce is kept out of our reach, and left unused if it doesn't make profit.


Technological capacity to produce enough to satisfy everyone's needs already exists globally and has done so for many decades. Yet needs continue to remain unmet on a massive scale. Why? Quite simply because scarcity is a functional requirement of capitalism itself.

www.worldsocialism.org...



posted on May, 30 2012 @ 02:14 AM
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reply to post by ANOK
 


i see what you are saying! so how might a capitalist argue against this being a better way to do things?

i guess this is kind of two different discussions, really. i can see how money would be useful, even in a more communal society. perhaps more at issue would be specifically how money has been used against us. you would argue that it can serve a purpose beneficial to a whole community, not just ultimately a few people.



posted on May, 30 2012 @ 02:19 AM
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reply to post by Bob Sholtz
 


first, thank you for this awesome post!

and i agree happiness is not with material things, but what the article in the OP made me think about was how completely we are not allowed to live without money, or as your prof said, how we need money to live.



posted on May, 30 2012 @ 03:20 AM
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Just wondering what he did about toothache and broken bones, if he had any, that is. itchy scalp? How did he wipe his ass?



posted on May, 30 2012 @ 04:26 AM
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Originally posted by godWhisperer
reply to post by ANOK
 


i see what you are saying! so how might a capitalist argue against this being a better way to do things?

i guess this is kind of two different discussions, really. i can see how money would be useful, even in a more communal society. perhaps more at issue would be specifically how money has been used against us. you would argue that it can serve a purpose beneficial to a whole community, not just ultimately a few people.


Yes money is used against us. Capitalists, being a minority with the means to become extremely wealthy compared to the majority, have the economic power to control the state/government, thus they control the majority. When the wealth from production goes to the workers, the majority, then no one can accumulate so much more wealth than the majority that they can control the majority.


edit on 5/30/2012 by ANOK because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 30 2012 @ 04:45 AM
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The arguments presented are purely academic. May I suggest actually going out and living this way.

If you do as the subject of the article did/does... you exist as a parasite to capitalism.

If you truly live free and independent and self reliant... aka mountainman... you will have quite a bit of work in front of you.



posted on May, 30 2012 @ 07:27 AM
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reply to post by godWhisperer
 


You started by stating:
"In my time at ATS, I've come to see how money is the ultimate tool for enslavement."

You have a perverse way at looking at your situation.
Why blame money when it is your preceived needs that are the problem?
Money is nothing but an agreed upon, convenient unit of exchange. It is a form of stored energy.



posted on May, 30 2012 @ 08:11 AM
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One idea on how such a thing could be achieved is with the release of free energy www.abovetopsecret.com...

But we still have the nature of man to content with, even if every bodies needs could easily be meet through technology, would the power and control games still continue? Kill, maim, hate, revenge, destroy, because they can. Is man really mature and advanced enough to be awarded such power and would he/she be responsible enough with it? It is a sure bet some wont, but as a whole and as a community could we keep it together enough to uplift the human condition to a new age?

At the moment it feels like earth is going down the dark path with so much centralised power and growing secret control. History has shown us a lot can change in one day, another but bigger global financial crisis for what ever reason and 100's of Trillions just vanish over night. A lot of social organisation and cohesion would just break down as supply and distribution chains break and anarchy reins. With a more structured plan and gradual easing anything is possible, but it is up to mankind to decide what happens. With what I have seen so far on the planet my hopes are not high with so much conflict as order of the day.



posted on May, 30 2012 @ 08:48 AM
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Originally posted by Aliensun
reply to post by godWhisperer
 


You started by stating:
"In my time at ATS, I've come to see how money is the ultimate tool for enslavement."

You have a perverse way at looking at your situation.
Why blame money when it is your preceived needs that are the problem?
Money is nothing but an agreed upon, convenient unit of exchange. It is a form of stored energy.



i agree totally that what we perceive as needs are often not what are real needs are, but i'll disagree with you that money is "an agreed upon, convenient unit of exchange," at least with the way it is in the united states. would you agree to a currency that is devalued by those who issue it after you've acquired it? you wouldn't agree to it but you don't have any choice, and therein lies the rub.

if we really had an honest-to-goodness, "agreed upon" currency that stayed true to our agreement, and we could choose to use another currency if/when the agreement was broken, then i'd say that i totally agree with you and that the money was serving the purposes you mentioned.



posted on May, 30 2012 @ 09:19 AM
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Why would one have to be homeless to live free in America? We have millions doing it already and they have roofs over their heads. It's called welfare.



posted on May, 30 2012 @ 09:26 AM
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The absolute only reason why I go to work everyday and conform to society is because of my children and not wanting to limit their future. I would totally be homeless and living on the earth if I only had to take care of myself.

Caught in a never ending circle rat race...



posted on May, 30 2012 @ 12:02 PM
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Originally posted by ANOK
reply to post by godWhisperer
 


Money is a tool used by the capitalist class to keep those at the top at the top, and those on the bottom on the bottom.

Money is only necessary because capitalism creates an artificial scarcity of resources, assuring only those with money have access to them.

This keeps us, instead of having the skill to be autonomously self-sufficient, reliant on capitalists supplying 'jobs' where we are exploited.

Poverty is not a lack of money, it is a lack of resources. The main thing that keeps resources scarce is underproduction. If the means to produce were owned in common, we wouldn't need their money, we could simply produce what we need.


Nonsense! Money is merely a more convenient means to facilitate an exchange of goods or services. The problem is not (real) money itself the problem is an elite class having control over the creation of so called money i.e printing money from nothing and adding entries from nothing on a computer screen. Historically money had intrinsic value like gold silver and commodities like grains etc. which cannot be created from nothing. it takes labor to mine gold and silver and grow crops etc. They have uses in society other then money hence they have intrinsic value.

Money was used to trade because it was easier to carry around then all your goods for barter. It still is. What people call money today is worthless paper and ink with arbitrary value assigned and no intrinsic value of its own. When this type of money can be created at will and is centrally controlled then the false scarcity is created. it has nothing to do with capitalism.

What people call capitalism today is oligarchic communistic socialism and corporate fascism. It is not even remotely close to free market capitalism. The Marxists have a done a good job of using the media in redefining words in peoples minds that now we have a whole generation that thinks socialism/communism/fascism is capitalism and they cry for more government intervention/socialism to "fix things" when that is what got us here in the first place!

There will be some form of money for a long time to come. Humanity is not yet ready as a whole to live without money and people need to receive value for the value they create also. These folks supposedly living free are still benefiting from goods created in conventional society and originally traded for money.

I would prefer a more self sustaining lifestyle where very little money is needed but I still have a roof over my head hot water electricity and some land to call home etc.



edit on 30-5-2012 by hawkiye because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 30 2012 @ 02:53 PM
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Whats misleading is the term "homeless". It is a derogatory term used by the establishment to down cast those who choose to be independent of the "system".

You see we are all ready enslaved by that very system. The walls built around us to keep us in are the cities everyone already lives in. The idea of existing there without a job, home address and money for food and transport are the fences that keep us from venturing out on our own. As we grow up we are trained to utilize the system to survive and feel like a fish out of water without it. It goes against every fibre of our being.

What, not be secure? Not have a savings account (for emergencies) and insurance (for emergencies) and retirement for (the end)? Shame on you. You don't belong. You are less than, you are a "homeless" person.

Unplugging is hard, yah. Getting harder all the time. Places I used to hang under bridges are now covered with razor wire and patrolled at night by Cal Trans Cops with guns, blazers and dogs. Being independent is not "illegal" it's just becoming more and more untenable. As they fence off, board up and patrol more and more reclusive areas, as they pass more legislation making "camping illegal", then they thereby make it more and more impossible.

Then at the same time banks are foreclosing homes, and corporations sending jobs overseas. So where do they expect everyone to go?

Return to "squatters rights" and "staking a claim". The old definition not the new legislation which makes everything illegal.

"I'm squatting here!"



posted on May, 30 2012 @ 03:26 PM
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Originally posted by adigregorio
I have thought of doing this on several occasions.

Unfortunatly, I hate being alone...Money I can do without, someone to talk to...well that's another story.

In other news, anyone want to go camping for a few decades?
If you were an even semi-attractive female, I would seriously consider it.



posted on May, 30 2012 @ 04:20 PM
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reply to post by godWhisperer
 

I spent several years of my life traveling the US by thumb, bus and train hopping. Eating out of dumpsters, harvesting/gleaning food, etc. I lived on a few thousand a year, and had many freinds/cohorts who spent even less.

In many, many ways i miss those days.



posted on May, 30 2012 @ 04:25 PM
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reply to post by godWhisperer
 


"I've heard it argued that without financial incentive that we would never have the impetus to devise technological or humanitarian advancements, but that is an extremely sobering thought for me."

thats a common lie perpetrated by the powers that be/

the reality is most inventions are done out of necessity, rather than money.

geniuses and inventors are not motivated by money but are limited it by it. curiosity and will spur invention, not capitalism. capitalism is actually slowing technological achievements because money is a limited resource.

not all great ideas can be made tangible by this fact. they must choose an idea that is the most profitable, not always the most beneficial.

that is why we see more and more products like ipods and iphones rather than really useful tech that can benefit all of mankind.

imagine apple with all its resources, ideas, talent and imagination tackling solar panels for free home electrical use.

no, apple is profit driven. so instead of solar panels, they're working relentless on apple tv and televisions.

thats what the world needs, another television manufacturer.



posted on Jun, 1 2012 @ 07:28 PM
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This is a very good thread topic


My thoughts on this are. Throughout history trading of some kind has always occurred. So just dumping all use of money seems futile to me. Even the native americans, who where self sufficient, traded.

But the point brought up earlier about the current currencies being a manipulated monopoly. Now their is where the problem is. Ron Paul wrote the book End the Fed, not talking about just stopping what we have now. But just to legalize competing currencies (gold). And as stated, the manipulated currencies will fail.



posted on Jun, 2 2012 @ 12:04 PM
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reply to post by godWhisperer
 


Hi GW! Good work on this thread! I wanted to give it a couple days before I responded back to you.
I admire and very much agree with how you feel. I have lived life without the use of paper money, or credit. The whole system we use is a broken system. And that is why I bowed out for about 8 or 9 months. But living off the land in the USA is tricky. You can get arrested for being homeless or a vagrant.
Now what I would need is some land to do this legally. So in one way or another we are forced into using money at some point in our lives. I do not think we here in the USA can escape that. And if you do, then you are not able to grow your own crop, or live off the land properly. Its pretty much find an open forest or lot close to some restaurants, so you can forage for food that way. Or have some of the cooks give you some food.
Then there is that whole weather thing that sucks.

Money can bring many luxuries, but they are only skin deep. At what cost have we become so laid back and lost. So many great trade skills, and artisan skills have been lost to the ages.
I wont get into all that to much. But your average person does not know how to sow a field. Or how to do many things that where common place in the 1800's. Most of that precious knowledge lost.

I have plans in a few years to get my passport and leave the US permanently to live a slower and more basic life.
But that means. No cars, no computers, no video games. All those things that pass our time, are easy to lose.
Its the AC and the bugs that get me.. But compared to life with money and debt. VS a life on the land.. I chose life on the land. But if everyone wanted to do that. The Earth could not support as many people as we have on Earth. That is why everything has become so dependent. If the system fails.. many people will perish.
But those who have the mind set, and have lived free of money at some point will be much better prepared for such a crash.

Heh. I always felt I was equipped to deal with life better than most people. I have always been dirt poor. I have always gone week from week, to week.
If suddenly everyone was poor.. I would be a rich man. As I live the life of a poor person.
Take a man who was once rich and make him live poor.. 85% of them would kill themselves.
I have been training for this all my life..
My Ex Girlfriend put some crap into my head about money.. Saying its not money that is evil.. Its what you do with the money that decides that.
AT the time it made sense. But the more I think about, the more my ways set back in.
Trust me.. Most women, not all.. But most will have nothing to do with a man with no money.
I don't want to broad brush stroke here... But you know what I mean by that.

Now. Lets address how to live for free in America.
Either you have some land of your own. Or you live on the land of some friends or family.
Without one of those you will face some serious issues.. Such as trespassing, loitering, and vagrancy.

USA has been poisoned, rarely can you find clean water source. Most our water sources here have been tainted. Most of the forests are protect by law, so you can not hunt there. And if you could hunt there, you will have to have either have hunting equipment, or buy some.. Which means money.

You can find groups of like minded people. But you are still going to end up paying something.

Nothing is free. You either barter or trade.
And before you know it.. You are taking part in what started it all to begin with. Just on a much smaller scale.

This for that. Or that for this. Some form of trade or barter must be in place to live. Thus in ending. Living money free in the USA is possible. But its not something to be taken lightly. Its a huge life choice.

I would find it much easier to do outside the USA. Yet I have no personal exp. with living outside the USA.
Ive been homeless. But it was not by choice. It was not nice, nor peaceful.
You had to be on the move all the time.. And in the end here in the USA, you would end up getting sucked into the very system you where trying to avoid.
edit on 2-6-2012 by zysin5 because: 1.2



posted on Jun, 3 2012 @ 07:32 PM
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You're dancing around the idea of the Zeitgeist Movement, so go research that. Basically, it's about eliminating money, using technology to eliminate as many service-oriented and dangerous jobs as possible, using technology to assess our global resources and allocate them as intelligently as possible, eliminating advertising and its attendant 'need vs. want' confusions and brainwashing, and making sure everyone on the planet has sufficient NEEDS met, i.e., housing, food, water, education, medical care and transportation, as well as access to the kind of articles you would find in a tool library, etc. OTOH, if you 'wanted' something, and it was not feasible given that the resources to make or produce it were not in abundant supply, the answer to the request might be 'no'. So no mansions before everyone has a suitable house, no Maserati until everyone has a bicycle, etc.. The idea of national borders would disappear and you would be able to travel the world, for free, your entire life if you wanted. Having a 'job' would be replaced by putting your interests to work in whatever avocation/vocation you deemed appropriate for yourself at whatever stage of life you were in. No more 'taking a job' just to pay bills and having your life slip away while you were doing something pointless.

The ZM is a massive global movement at this point (over 500,000 members) and I doubt if I'll live to see its inception, but I have my hopes. The movies detailing the idea have been seen by over 100,000,000 people in 60 countries and 30 languages, almost all propelled by volunteer labor and ideas. I find it a real positive antidote to all the negativity and hopelessness of our current situation. It's not utopian (defined as perfection, something unachievable) but emergent, i.e., a learning process applied to reality.

In the meantime, research the tiny house movement (100-500 SF houses, smaller to build, maintain, heat/cool, lower taxation constraints, under the radar of the suit and uniform nazis, etc). You could build one out of recycled materials for very cheaply and park it in a friend's yard in return for, say, yardwork or childcare or elder care or.... See the 'tiny house blog' and 'kirsten dirksen's videos for a lot on that subject.

Also, research the newly burgeoning aquaculture movement. This is great for growing food in any climate and on land that was once considered unsuitable for agriculture, including the desert. Simply put, you grow fish in large tanks and run the fish water (now full of plant nutrients) through a bed of vegetable and fruit plants; the water is then recycled back to the fish. People are growing enough food to feed hundreds of people on a half acre, and a unit productive enough to feed one or two people vegetables, fruit and protein, could be done in a space the size of a patio with very little input of water or electricity. Could certainly be off-grid. The fish's food can be home grown worms (vermiculture), kitchen and yard scraps, and duckweed, negating the need to buy that...

If your housing is cheap and your food is almost all grown by yourself, (with extra for bartering or selling) you're darn close to self-sufficient and monetarily off grid. Don't forget Freecycle and Craigslist 'free' type sites for all sorts of found objects that you can either barter or use, meanwhile keeping them out of the landfills.




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