Why were 14 books ripped out of the King James Bible in 1885?

I love the implications of this question!

Because the King SAID to remove them. You know...to alter the "literal Word of God" n all...him being a KING and all....

s&f I love these kind of posts.... The plight of Christianity is probably the single origin of my obsession with history, because every single thing that has happened in our modern times is dependent of it, like it or not. I just get giddy to learn as much as I can.. will watch the video in a bit if I find some earbuds around the office.

in one of the links provided (if someone did not want to click around) this has a list of books referenced to in scripture, but absent altogether in existence.

www.bibleufo.com...

How interesting, because these references seem intended to be common knowledge to the reader. I want to go into my family's bible to read what is surrounding them (not home at the mo, gotta wait a few hours ahh so curious) but they also seem to me as solid, unarguable evidence toward whatever the point is.. How knowing those documents that the biblical figures studied themselves, would change the meanings.. I am sure with translating language to language there are many words that are questionable, how many could be the other word! If a, say Hebrew sentenced was mistranslated to Greek, again mistranslated to Latin, mistranslated to English My wheels are churning..

Another idea... so the Vatican obviously has an undisclosed amount of ancient texts hidden and protected from the world... I do not think in any editing for the masses they would destroy what was removed, because that would take away the significance of the removal for future rulers, the reasoning behind it.. And the power of knowing the ultimate truth. So I believe these exist somewhere, because in the religiously-elite's intense studying of the Bible, would you think they would go studying without the original intended sources? If they did exist in the 4th century, the hundreds of books estimated, come one has to be somewhere.

I do not believe in the bible because of how it has been edited to control the masses; Frankly, fear tactics are insulting and cowardly, especially because the majority is too easily influenced and I believe lack a certain chemical or access to some part of the brain (not to be condescending at all, just a theory) so as to fear something mythical (as someone said priests and their families would eat the offerings of the people).... AND to follow a book, whose first part was the Torah, but is edited to abominate Judaism? I never understood that parts are called "God's word" and then they're all "Oh, never-mind guys it's cool, Jesus said we don't have to listen--only applies to those guys... Suckaaas..." It makes any reference to the OT irrelevant for Christians, but they do not see that.

In my heart I believe Jesus is the key, but I have not found a way yet.. As more unfolds and is revealed, time will show some truth eventually... I believe nothing is hidden forever, seriously if we can find Dinosaur bones I am sure there is much much more to be found about the past 100,000 years that was not destroyed by the floods.

.. DAMN YOU CONSTANTINE.... Down with Rome

Keep the hunt going, it's a mighty beast we need to take down

now to start some reading..

st-takla.org...

1- Tobit: Contains of 14 chapters, and it follows The Book of Nehmia in order.


2- Judith: Contains of 16 chapters, and it follows Tobit in order.


3- Esther: The rest of the Book of Esther, and contains chapters from 10 to 16.


4- Wisdom: For Solomon the King, and contains of 19 chapters, and it should be after The Book of the Songs of Songs.


5- Joshua Son of Sirach (Ecclesiasticus): Contains of 51 chapters, and it follows The Wisdom of Solomon in order.


6- Baruch: Contains of 6 chapters, and it follows The Book of Lamentations of Jeremiah in order.


7- Daniel: The rest of The Book of Daniel, and contains of the rest of Chapter 3, in addition to two extra chapters: 13, 14.


8- First of Maccabees: Contains of 16 chapters, and it follows The Book of Malachi in order.


9- Second of Maccabees: Contains of 15 chapters, and it follows The Book of Second Maccabees in order.


10- Psalm 151 After Psalm 150 by King David the prophet.

I advise anyone who thinks Martin Luther is a hero to do a little research on the man.


en.wikipedia.org...
www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org...
articles.exchristian.net...
www.nobeliefs.com...

And I do not understand this concept of "By Faith Alone" comes salvation. Doesn't it contradict this passage?

James 2:14-26
New King James Version (NKJV)
Faith Without Works Is Dead

14 What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him? 15 If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food, 16 and one of you says to them, “Depart in peace, be warmed and filled,” but you do not give them the things which are needed for the body, what does it profit? 17 Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.

18 But someone will say, “You have faith, and I have works.” Show me your faith without your[a] works, and I will show you my faith by my works. 19 You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe—and tremble! 20 But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead?[c] 21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? 22 Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made perfect? 23 And the Scripture was fulfilled which says, “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.”[d] And he was called the friend of God. 24 You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.

25 Likewise, was not Rahab the harlot also justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out another way?

26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

reply to post by sad_eyed_lady


What about the Gospel of Jesus? The Gospel of Sarah? The Gospel of Mary Magdelene?

There are many gospels missing, once you accept that not only was Jesus a mortal prophet, but he also had a family. Imagine, an entire family tree passing down generation after generation of teachings...

That alone would be more realistic than the doctrine the Church upholds today.

reply to post by NOTurTypical


what a joke..

your posts get funnier each time..

judge much?

Hello all, interesting stuff, i got a question though... can anyone point me to the book that says jesus was an eagle in the garden of eden?
It's an intriguing concept, look at the back of a dollar bill by the way...

Originally posted by PuRe EnErGy
Here you can find the Nag Hammadi library ... The Nag Hammadi Library Alphabetical Index

Quite spectacular reading if I do say so myself..

Where Christ explains that it was he, himself in the form of an eagle on the tree in the garden of eden and not the serpent.

Where Christ teaches the "true father" whom no one knew before he arrived.

and explains far more profound teachings than you will ever find in the "bible"

When I first started reading the gnostic scriptures I brought my findings to ATS here ...
It became evident to me that whoever altered the bible didn't want us to know what this particular version of Christ had to say, because to me... it was far more liberating and logical to me than the malarkey they spout in the bible.

I recommend reading.

The Apocryphon of John
On the Origin of the World
The Hypostasis of the Archons (The Reality of the Rulers)
The Gospel of Truth
The Apocryphon of James
The Dialogue of the Savior

These texts have changed my life ...
Sometimes difficult to understand, .. annoying because of all the missing text (in what seems like convenient places for text to be missing)
But a completely different vision of Christ, his message and his mission.

Quote 1

Matthew said, "Tell me, Lord, how the dead die, and how the living live." The Lord said, "You have asked me about a saying [...] which eye has not seen, nor have I heard it, except from you. But I say to you that when what invigorates a man is removed, he will be called 'dead'. And when what is alive leaves what is dead, what is alive will be called upon." Judas said, "Why else, for the sake of truth, do they and live?" The Lord said, "Whatever is born of truth does not die. Whatever is born of woman dies."

Quote 2

Matthew said, "Why do we not rest at once?" The Lord said, "When you lay down these burdens!" Matthew said, "How does the small join itself to the big?" The Lord said, "When you abandon the works which will not be able to follow you, then you will rest."

Mary said, "I want to understand all things, just as they are!"
The Lord said, "He who will seek out life! For this is their wealth. For the [...] of this cosmos is [...], and its gold and its silver are misleading."

Quote 3

Judas said, "Tell me, Lord, what the beginning of the path is." He said, "Love and goodness. For if one of these existed among the governors, wickedness would never have come into existence."

Most people are familiar with the gospel of st. thomas .. because it's much easier to follow, but it is really worth trying to understand the texts that are missing lines and words, if you are familiar with christianity and the jewish faith it will make understanding the gnostic scriptures much easier.

Many things we are continued to be taught in church today are the way things were taught before "Christ" arrived.. in the gnostic scriptures Christ explains a lot of those teachings and reveals the truth behind them.
Even Christ didn't take the Torah literally.

I highly recommend reading the entire library more than once ... you will be astonished and perhaps it will change your views on Christ.

If indeed it was Christ on the tree of the knowledge of good and evil in the form of an eagle.. it makes much more sense why he'd say something like this:

10. Jesus said, "I have cast fire upon the world, and look, I'm guarding it until it blazes."

16. Jesus said, "Perhaps people think that I have come to cast peace upon the world. They do not know that I have come to cast conflicts upon the earth: fire, sword, war. For there will be five in a house: there'll be three against two and two against three, father against son and son against father, and they will stand alone."

Now notice the thoughts and feelings you get when you read those last two quotes, is there any wonder why you would have such a strong response? perhaps because someone wanted you to have a different idea and view of Christ, one that serves THEIR purpose and not his.

Which link has these quotes? Very intersting. I know that there is all kinds of stuff thats out there.... Soooo exciting to me, really.

Thanks for the links.

www.bibleufo.com...

It might help,but if u got time check google sometimes,there can be found amazing things...

Originally posted by defcon5

The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.

The proper number of books was already pretty much accepted by 130AD, as we can prove by Irenaeus use of those books in Against Heresies. A lot of folks were trying to add additional propaganda (pseudopigraphal works), Gnostic texts, and Apocrypha into the Bible for various reasons. That stuff is not all bad to read, but it does not hold the same authority as the Bible, and didn't belong in it. You can, and even then could, get access to read those books if you really wanted too.

As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.

This line of reasoning sounds good and all, the truth of the matter is that the gnostic scriptures are difficult reading and provide a different view then what is customarily accepted. Churches and those representatives have used scripture to control populations for ages. Restricting education and selling forgiveness of sins, hiring prostitutes and completely perverting the true message of Christ.

I find it offensive to think that a bunch of people can decide what is and what isn't "cannon"

There is so much wrong with religion and the way scripture is used and taught.
It's easy for us today to say . .oh that doesn't sound like the Christ I know, because there has been so much work gone into making him appear a certain way.

The story the gnostic scriptures tells us is completely different than the bible of today, one could say it's exactly the opposite.

It's one thing to overlook this but it's a completely different story to deny the differences and the possible reasons why this story had attempted to be erased from history and at a key time in history returned to us, found by a farmer.

Religion today is used to control people, the teachings of Christ were liberating.
These were MEN who decided what the narrative was going to be and adjusted it to suit their needs and desires to remove or trivialize some texts because it didn't suit the ruling elite and those who profited by the control of the people is ludicrous.

This is where a lot of conflict comes from because most of the gnostic texts are meetings with Christ AFTER the crucifixion and teachings given were both far more complex yet at the same time clarified things that the apostles were unclear of.

"And I shall teach you (pl.) what is the mystery of their life, which is the plan which they made together, which is the likeness of their spirit. The root of this (tree) is bitter and its branches are death, its shadow is hate and deception is in its leaves, and its blossom is the ointment of evil, and its fruit is death and desire is its seed, and it sprouts in darkness. The dwelling place of those who taste from it is Hades, and the darkness is their place of rest.

"But what they call the tree of knowledge of good and evil, which is the Epinoia of the light, they stayed in front of it in order that he (Adam) might not look up to his fullness and recognize the nakedness of his shamefulness. But it was I who brought about that they ate."

And to I said to the savior, "Lord, was it not the serpent that taught Adam to eat?" The savior smiled and said, "The serpent taught them to eat from wickedness of begetting, lust, (and) destruction, that he (Adam) might be useful to him. And he (Adam) knew that he was disobedient to him (the chief archon) due to light of the Epinoia which is in him, which made him more correct in his thinking than the chief archon. And (the latter) wanted to bring about the power which he himself had given him. And he brought a forgetfulness over Adam."

And I said to the savior, "What is the forgetfulness?" And he said "It is not the way Moses wrote (and) you heard. For he said in his first book, 'He put him to sleep' (Gn 2:21), but (it was) in his perception. For also he said through the prophet, 'I will make their hearts heavy, that they may not pay attention and may not see' (Is 6:10).

"Then the Epinoia of the light hid herself in him (Adam). And the chief archon wanted to bring her out of his rib. But the Epinoia of the light cannot be grasped. Although darkness pursued her, it did not catch her. And he brought a part of his power out of him. And he made another creature, in the form of a woman, according to the likeness of the Epinoia which had appeared to him. And he brought the part which he had taken from the power of the man into the female creature, and not as Moses said, 'his rib-bone.'

"And he (Adam) saw the woman beside him. And in that moment the luminous Epinoia appeared, and she lifted the veil which lay over his mind. And he became sober from the drunkenness of darkness. And he recognized his counter-image, and he said, 'This is indeed bone of my bones and flesh of my flesh.' Therefore the man will leave his father and his mother, and he will cleave to his wife, and they will both be one flesh. For they will send him his consort, and he will leave his father and his mother ... (3 lines unreadable)

Originally posted by Jesix840
Hello all, interesting stuff, i got a question though... can anyone point me to the book that says jesus was an eagle in the garden of eden?
It's an intriguing concept, look at the back of a dollar bill by the way...

That particular text comes from

The Apocryphon of John (The Secret Book of John - The Secret Revelation of John)

But I recommend reading them all, it is truly astonishing.

The Apocryphon of John is commonly referenced by two other names: The Secret Book of John and The Secret Revelation of John, depending upon how the word "Apocryphon" is translated. Their are four surviving Coptic manuscripts of this text: two shorter version found in the Berlin Codex; and Nag Hammadi Codex III, and two longer version, found in Nag Hammadi Codex II and IV. This translation prepared by Dr. Wisse for the Nag Hammadi Library in English uses all four manuscripts to produce a single text. Separate translations of the short and long version, along with extensive additional resources, are available in the Apocryphon of John Collection of the Gnostic Society Library.

reply to post by PuRe EnErGy


Would you mind explaining exactly what those lines are talking about? I know what it is referring to, but not what it is clarifying. Perhaps you could help...?

Also, are these supposedly the words of Jesus, explaining that which the Bible apparently leaves deliberately obscure?

"He is the invisible Spirit, of whom it is not right to think of him as a god...He did not lack anything, that he might be completed by it; rather he is always completely perfect in light. He is illimitable, since there is no one prior to him to set limits to him. He is unsearchable, since there exists no one prior to him to examine him. He is immeasurable, since there was no one prior to him to measure him. He is invisible, since no one saw him. He is eternal, since he exists eternally. He is ineffable, since no one was able to comprehend him to speak about him. He is unnameable, since there is no one prior to him to give him a name. ...(He is) not in perfection, nor in blessedness, nor in divinity, but he is far superior. He is not corporeal nor is he incorporeal. He is neither large nor is he small. There is no way to say, 'What is his quantity?' or, 'What is his quality?', for no one can know him." - The Secret Revelations of John

Other than the constant reference of "him" (I believe Source to be androgynous, a perfect melding of every perfect aspect of both genders) I am completely sold on this.

Especially the part where it says that man cannot name the unnameable.

Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by PuRe EnErGy

 

Would you mind explaining exactly what those lines are talking about? I know what it is referring to, but not what it is clarifying. Perhaps you could help...?

Also, are these supposedly the words of Jesus, explaining that which the Bible apparently leaves deliberately obscure?

In my opinion the reason is because of the balance in the cosmos, if evil grows so must the good.
In nature we see when a certain species overruns it's environment something comes to balance the environment.
The same today when we see evil, more people become aware of it and are likely to do something about it. But if it didn't grow out of control, it would remain hidden.

There are certain rules and laws that rule our cosmos, although they can be broken and rewritten to defeat the evil that those laws protect.

I think it has a lot to do with bringing the darkness to light, or rather uncovering that which is done in the dark.
If you know how you're being manipulated it's a lot harder to be manipulated.

reply to post by PuRe EnErGy


I have come to believe that evil (or negative, as I call it - evil is that which serves only itself, which defines half of nature as evil, since everything strives to feed itself) is just as important as positive, or that which strives to serve all others before itself. Neither is healthy in its purest form...both leads to ostracizing or martyrdom.

Negative gives positive meanings, just as shadow gives light definition. Positive shows the alternative to negative, so we realize we have a choice...just as light reveals the path, so we don't stumble in the dark.

Have you seen Inception? Ingenious manipulation there. If you know the truth is going to come out, implicate their own security and sources so that they instinctively rely upon you to be the good guy. And WHAZZAM! You've caught them tighter than a fly in the trap.

reply to post by halfoldman

modern Protestant Christians don't know them at all).

Oh i wouldn't say that. Alot of us know them and have read them. Not an accurate statement to say modern protestant christians don't know them.

They were also deemed heretical because some of them contradict the entire new testament. Like how the gnostics believe that Jesus suffered no pain on the cross but the old testament suggests he did so it was deemed heretical.

That's what I was taught on adding or removing things from the Bible.

You have been misinformed. For one, at that time there was no Bible, and the whole "don't add or remove from this book" is only for the book of revelations. The Bible is not a book but a collection of books.

But, why were 14 books left out of the Bible, is a good question.

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000
reply to post by halfoldman

 

modern Protestant Christians don't know them at all).

Oh i wouldn't say that. Alot of us know them and have read them. Not an accurate statement to say modern protestant christians don't know them.

They were also deemed heretical because some of them contradict the entire new testament. Like how the gnostics believe that Jesus suffered no pain on the cross but the old testament suggests he did so it was deemed heretical.

edit on 30-5-2012 by lonewolf19792000 because: (no reason given)

The reason for that belief is because he specifically told them that it was not "the true" him on the cross, there is a story of Jesus looking at himself on the cross and laughing, he told them to remember the cross but his previous teachings indicated that he believed when people spoke of themselves in the past tense that they were speaking of the dead. He didn't want his disciples to dwell on the sacrifice but to understand his teachings, he was demonstrating his teachings by being sacrificed but it was the teachings that were important and not his suffering.

The Apocalypse of Peter

"And there shall be others of those who are outside our number who name themselves bishop and also deacons, as if they have received their authority from God. They bend themselves under the judgment of the leaders. Those people are dry canals."

But I said " I am afraid because of what you have told me, that indeed little (ones) are, in our view, the counterfeit ones, indeed, that there are multitudes that will mislead other multitudes of living ones, and destroy them among themselves. And when they speak your name they will be believed."

The Savior said, "For a time determined for them in proportion to their error they will rule over the little ones. And after the completion of the error, the never-aging one of the immortal understanding shall become young, and they (the little ones) shall rule over those who are their rulers. The root of their error he shall pluck out, and he shall put it to shame so that it shall be manifest in all the impudence which it has assumed to itself. And such ones shall become unchangeable, O Peter."

"Come therefore, let us go on with the completion of the will of the incorruptible Father. For behold, those who will bring them judgment are coming, and they will put them to shame. But me they cannot touch. And you, O Peter, shall stand in their midst. Do not be afraid because of your cowardice. Their minds shall be closed, for the invisible one has opposed them."

When he had said those things, I saw him seemingly being seized by them. And I said "What do I see, O Lord? That it is you yourself whom they take, and that you are grasping me? Or who is this one, glad and laughing on the tree? And is it another one whose feet and hands they are striking?"

The Savior said to me, "He whom you saw on the tree, glad and laughing, this is the living Jesus. But this one into whose hands and feet they drive the nails is his fleshly part, which is the substitute being put to shame, the one who came into being in his likeness. But look at him and me."

But I, when I had looked, said "Lord, no one is looking at you. Let us flee this place."

But he said to me, "I have told you, 'Leave the blind alone!'. And you, see how they do not know what they are saying. For the son of their glory instead of my servant, they have put to shame."

And I saw someone about to approach us resembling him, even him who was laughing on the tree. And he was with a Holy Spirit, and he is the Savior. And there was a great, ineffable light around them, and the multitude of ineffable and invisible angels blessing them. And when I looked at him, the one who gives praise was revealed.

And he said to me, "Be strong, for you are the one to whom these mysteries have been given, to know them through revelation, that he whom they crucified is the first-born, and the home of demons, and the stony vessel in which they dwell, of Elohim, of the cross, which is under the Law. But he who stands near him is the living Savior, the first in him, whom they seized and released, who stands joyfully looking at those who did him violence, while they are divided among themselves. Therefore he laughs at their lack of perception, knowing that they are born blind. So then the one susceptible to suffering shall come, since the body is the substitute. But what they released was my incorporeal body. But I am the intellectual Spirit filled with radiant light. He whom you saw coming to me is our intellectual Pleroma, which unites the perfect light with my Holy Spirit."

reply to post by PuRe EnErGy


Thats a Gnostic book. They didnt even believe He came in the flesh. Plus it came on the scene after Peter was martyred.

reply to post by PuRe EnErGy


So, what? He OBE'd from his body in order to get a better look at how the crucifixion was being performed? Maybe he liked the cinematic effect of floating around, trying out a few action shots in his head...

I really don't get how this works.