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Grace Vs. Works

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posted on May, 30 2012 @ 05:17 AM
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Originally posted by arpgme

Originally posted by NOTurTypical

Originally posted by arpgme

Originally posted by benrl
You work because you are saved, not to get saved.

If you have no works well...


Know the tree by the fruit.


So if people work BECAUSE they are saved, does that mean that The Atheists, The Agnostics, and The Satanists and Luciferians are saved too?


By "work" he means the will and desire to do God's will.


Do unto others as you would have them do unto you, is a part of God's will, no?


Sure.. and even more important than that is to love everyone as you love yourself. Christ basically ratcheted up the OT commandments.




posted on May, 30 2012 @ 07:27 AM
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reply to post by NOTurTypical
 


So it appears that there are Atheists, Luciferians, Satanists, and Agnostics that are doing the work than and therefore are saved...



posted on May, 30 2012 @ 07:38 AM
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Originally posted by arpgme
reply to post by NOTurTypical
 


So it appears that there are Atheists, Luciferians, Satanists, and Agnostics that are doing the work than and therefore are saved...


I'd read over Romans 2 about that. Without Christ all those works are in vain.



posted on May, 30 2012 @ 08:25 AM
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reply to post by NOTurTypical
 


So all of the people who have done good works, but didn't know what the bible or jesus was, all of their works were invain, and they will go to hellfire and we should blame christians for not preaching to them fast enough, right?


At any rate, I guess this quote is false by Christian religion, which was my original point:


Originally posted by benrl
You work because you are saved, not to get saved.



posted on May, 30 2012 @ 08:51 AM
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reply to post by arpgme
 


Ephesians 2:8-10



posted on May, 30 2012 @ 09:03 AM
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Originally posted by Akragon
Paul says "do not associate with sinners"....

Is that love?

the same love that he preached when he said "Love is the whole of the law"?




That completely contradicts what Jesus did, I don't know why Paul would say that.

I think that grace would mean we forgive Paul and just look upon the story of Jesus. For the non believers we need to do more study to see if the story is 100% true, I am surprised that historians cannot prove that the story is true. I feel it is true because they seemed to do all they could to tell the world about one man, it doesn't seem like the story of someone's mind but something that happened.



posted on May, 30 2012 @ 09:40 AM
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reply to post by NOTurTypical
 



Fellowship (koinonia in Greek) implies a different level than mere friendship or aquaintence.


You are braver than I am. I was trying not to go there.



posted on May, 30 2012 @ 10:32 AM
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Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by arpgme
 


Ephesians 2:8-10



So when Jesus died all of the people who did not yet know around the world who were being good works, still went to hell since grace only comes from this "Christ Jesus". This is the god that is supposed to be fair.



posted on May, 30 2012 @ 11:29 AM
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Originally posted by arpgme

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by arpgme
 


Ephesians 2:8-10



So when Jesus died all of the people who did not yet know around the world who were being good works, still went to hell since grace only comes from this "Christ Jesus". This is the god that is supposed to be fair.


Look at it this way. When Noah and his family left the ark everyone alive on Earth had the truth and most didnt raise their sons and daughters in the fear and admonishon of the Lord.



posted on May, 30 2012 @ 11:31 AM
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Originally posted by Klassified
reply to post by NOTurTypical
 



Fellowship (koinonia in Greek) implies a different level than mere friendship or aquaintence.


You are braver than I am. I was trying not to go there.


Meh.. it's the truth, and besides most people know Im not interested in votes or stars. Lol



posted on May, 30 2012 @ 01:25 PM
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Im short on time at the moment... but for those that read this thread....

I implore you to read the parable of the wicked servant...

www.biblegateway.com...

Personally i believe this is an excellent example of for those who believe in Pauls "Grace" doctrine...

As i've previously quoted.... Faith without works is dead...

Believe in whatever you like... but with nothing to back that belief.... without evidence of that belief...

It means nothing...




posted on May, 30 2012 @ 03:06 PM
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reply to post by Akragon
 


Genuine saving faith does produce works, i dont think anyone here is arguing that it doesnt. The entire purpose for saving us is to do good works for the Lord. The Spirit inside us wills us to do good works. (Philippians 2:13)



posted on May, 30 2012 @ 10:48 PM
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Originally posted by NOTurTypical

So when Jesus died all of the people who did not yet know around the world who were being good works, still went to hell since grace only comes from this "Christ Jesus". This is the god that is supposed to be fair.


Look at it this way. When Noah and his family left the ark everyone alive on Earth had the truth and most didnt raise their sons and daughters in the fear and admonishon of the Lord.

Ok, but that is not a good analogy for my question because I asked what if they didn't know that Jesus died for their sins?

Look at it this way, What if only Noah and his family knew the truth, and it was too late to tell the truth because the world was already about to flood before they can tell anyone?

What if people did good works but did not know that Jesus died for their sins because the Christians didn't preach to them about Jesus yet and they didn't before they could find out?



posted on May, 31 2012 @ 06:47 AM
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reply to post by arpgme
 


You missed my point. Failure for people to know qill always fall on the parents and the parents before them.



posted on May, 31 2012 @ 05:46 PM
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Originally posted by arpgme
reply to post by NOTurTypical
 


So all of the people who have done good works, but didn't know what the bible or jesus was, all of their works were invain, and they will go to hellfire and we should blame christians for not preaching to them fast enough, right?


At any rate, I guess this quote is false by Christian religion, which was my original point:


Originally posted by benrl
You work because you are saved, not to get saved.

Those who have never heard the Gospel will be judged by their works meaning that lets say your community punished people who steal or murder and you do those things then by those standards you will be judged.

Revelation 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.



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