My take on Masonry

reply to post by Minnie1985

Hi op, i personally believe that alot of freemasons don't have the slightest clue what they are part of, but so far i have met a man who's uncle is a freemason and i've also met a young man who's father is a freemason, and believe me, they vehemently insist that nearly everything i've heard is true, and there is more that they didn't even want to go into as they are fed up of people mocking them, yet they have seen it first hand. i hope you don't think i'm disrespecting you in any way as this is not my intention, i'm just pointing out what those who have seen it for themselves would contradict the message you are trying to put out. thank you

You met someone that knows someone, and you say "believe me?"

That is 3rd hand information at best, but the OP here, as well as many of the posters, including me, are actually Masons. We are "those that have seen it for themselves."

Those who have seen it for themselves are not contradicting his message in any way. We agree with him. It is a beautiful organization. We don't recruit people or force anyone to be a member, or drive our views down anyone's throat. That alone is more than most organizations can say!! On top of that, our dues are low, are participation is entirely voluntary, and as some others have already said, "you get out of it what you put into it." If someone wants to participate heavily, then GREAT! If they want to show up once or twice per year, that is great too.

reply to post by Minnie1985

Hi op, i personally believe that alot of freemasons don't have the slightest clue what they are part of, but so far i have met a man who's uncle is a freemason and i've also met a young man who's father is a freemason, and believe me, they vehemently insist that nearly everything i've heard is true, and there is more that they didn't even want to go into as they are fed up of people mocking them, yet they have seen it first hand. i hope you don't think i'm disrespecting you in any way as this is not my intention, i'm just pointing out what those who have seen it for themselves would contradict the message you are trying to put out. thank you

What did they say is true?

What have you heard?

It's not mocking at all. If it clears up our ignorance and brings issues to light there is no way we could be offended.

hi guys, i didn't mean to offend anyone so i'm sorry if i did, i'm not the best at expressing myself with words and probably came across a bit blunt. what i would like to point out though is that i said most freemasons don't seem to know what they are part of, and thats because they aren't involved in any of the horrid stuff that seems to be going on, i really shouldn't have tarred all freemasons with the same brush, that was silly of me. i suppose the major obstacle that people have a problem with is the fact that freemasonry is classed as a secret society and i don't personally feel anything in this world should be secretive as this is why the world is in the state it is now. and i honestly believe that you guys are not aware of any wrong doing at all within your circles and thats because there probably isn't any wrong doing within your circle of friends,

one question that i should probably ask you is, do you class freemasonry as secret society or would you happily discuss what goes on with anyone? i ask this question because a guy i sort of work with is a freemason, and he is very reluctant to talk about it at all so this just fuels my suspicions. and is it true that only men can become members? if so this also doesn't make sense as i thought men and women were created equal, please feel free to set me straight as i'm on a major learning curve at the moment and i appreciate looking at things from all angles, thank you for your time

reply to post by Minnie1985


I think most of us would discuss just about anything (and have) except the oath, handshake and passwords.

Ask away

Originally posted by Minnie1985
what i would like to point out though is that i said most freemasons don't seem to know what they are part of, and thats because they aren't involved in any of the horrid stuff that seems to be going on

I would strongly disagree that most Freemasons don't know what they are a part of. Rather, I would say that most Freemasons know exactly what Freemasonry is, and is not. I would also disagree that there is "horrid stuff going on". In fact, it's great stuff.

one question that i should probably ask you is, do you class freemasonry as secret society or would you happily discuss what goes on with anyone?

I happily discuss it with anyone interested.

i ask this question because a guy i sort of work with is a freemason, and he is very reluctant to talk about it at all so this just fuels my suspicions.

I would guess that it is likely that your friend is uncomfortable discussing it because he doesn't know much about it. He may be one of the guys who joined but never attends, and therefore never learns.

and is it true that only men can become members? if so this also doesn't make sense as i thought men and women were created equal, please feel free to set me straight as i'm on a major learning curve at the moment and i appreciate looking at things from all angles, thank you for your time

Freemasonry is a fraternity, so it admits men only. In like manner, sororities admit women only. Neither fraternities nor sororities deny that men and women are equal in the philosophical sense....it's just that fraternities are for the boys, and sororities are for the girls.

reply to post by Minnie1985


In the US only men can become Freemasons, simply because it is a fraternity. There are appendant bodies like Eastern Star that women can join.

reply to post by emsed1

hello again, and thank you for your quick replies, i'm replying to emsed in particular but only because this statement,

I think most of us would discuss just about anything (and have) except the oath, handshake and passwords.

why would you discuss just about anything except the oath, handshake and passwords? why are these things secretive?

thanks

reply to post by Minnie1985

why would you discuss just about anything except the oath, handshake and passwords? why are these things secretive?

I know you asked Emsed, but I like answering this question.

Mostly just because tradition, and the actual degree work say they are secret. It is the only thing we promise not to disclose.

More practically, in ancient times, it was a form of recognition between Masons. Maybe it it still important in certain areas (like Iran), where it is dangerous to be associated with Masons. A person can ask a few questions, and shake hands, and know if the other person is a Mason or not, without getting themselves into a dangerous situation. In reality, it is more important to have a current dues card than it is to have the other stuff. Most lodges are not letting you in without a current dues card, and then maybe they ask for the secret stuff just to be sure the card is real.

That's it. There is no special power or information contained in them. It is no different than having a key card to your office building. You don't get in without it, and you aren't supposed to share it with other people.

reply to post by getreadyalready


hi, the question was for all of you really so i don't mind who replies, but thank you for replying, i do have another question for you all based on what you have just said,

More practically, in ancient times, it was a form of recognition between Masons. Maybe it it still important in certain areas (like Iran), where it is dangerous to be associated with Masons. A person can ask a few questions, and shake hands, and know if the other person is a Mason or not, without getting themselves into a dangerous situation.

why would it be dangerous in any part of the world to be associated with masons? do masons have a bad history in ancient times?

please don't think i'm being awkward on purpose, i'm just interested, thank you

reply to post by Minnie1985


I've heard Masonry is illegal in Iran, and it was illegal in the USSR. It wasn't so much Masonry, as it was any organized group of people congregating. In the USSR organized religions were also frowned upon. You could be a Christian, or a Muslim, but you couldn't congregate.

In ancient times, Operative Masons used their skills and their craft to avoid becoming slaves. As long as they protected their trade secrets they were valuable. If they let those secrets become common knowledge, then slaves could do the work, and they would become slaves themselves.

I think that is a rash oversimplification, but you get the idea. The other Masons in this thread like Network Dude, or Masonic Light, or KsigMason, or the OP, or many others may have a more detailed, and educational explanation.

Long and short of it, the answer is "yes." There have been times, even modern times, where it has been dangerous to be a Mason..... or a Christian, or a Muslim, or a Doctor, or a Wiccan, or a Government official for that matter. Still waiting for the days when it is dangerous to be a banker though? They should be rolling around any minute!

Originally posted by Minnie1985


why would it be dangerous in any part of the world to be associated with masons? do masons have a bad history in ancient times?, thank

Freemasons were condemned to death by the Holy Inquisition, and in various papal bulls. Furthermore, being associated with Freemasonry was considered a crime against the state in Nazi-occupied Europe, as well as the USSR and its satellites.

reply to post by getreadyalready

Hello, but why would it be illegal in iran? surely something must have happened that was bad for it to be made illegal?

also, you said:

In ancient times, Operative Masons used their skills and their craft to avoid becoming slaves. As long as they protected their trade secrets they were valuable. If they let those secrets become common knowledge, then slaves could do the work, and they would become slaves themselves.

i'd like to give you my take on the above statement, but please bare in mind this is just my opinion, because of the masons protecting their trade secrets it enabled them to have power over the slaves by keeping the information from them that could have made us all equal, thus creating a divide

btw, i do appreciate you taking your time to answer my questions and i hope you don't mind doing so

reply to post by Masonic Light

i'll have a look into this, as it just opens up more questions, thank you

reply to post by Minnie1985


I disagree. Making the skills widely available would have allowed the governments to control who performed the tasks and would have allowed everyone to be enslaved. That is really an argument over Free Market vs. Socialism/Communism though.

If I know something that is valuable, then supply and demand kicks in. If it becomes widely available, then its value goes down. If the value is my very freedom, I'm going to protect it with my life and share it sparingly!

Again though, we are talking about operative masons, and trade secrets, not the masons of today. Trade secrets are still protected, but they are protected by corporations and patents.

Originally posted by Minnie1985

Hello, but why would it be illegal in iran? surely something must have happened that was bad for it to be made illegal?

After the Islamic Revolution of 1979, Freemasonry was banned in Iran because its teachings and doctrines were contrary to Sharia law. The Grand Lodge of Free and Accepted Masons of Iran now exists in exile, with its offices in Los Angeles.

i'd like to give you my take on the above statement, but please bare in mind this is just my opinion, because of the masons protecting their trade secrets it enabled them to have power over the slaves by keeping the information from them that could have made us all equal, thus creating a divide

Not precisely. During feudalism, it was the lord of the manor who held power over the serfs. The Freemasons were those craftsmen who were free-born, and could therefore travel and work freely. This was the culture that gave birth to the masonic guilds. The Freemasons themselves held no power over any serfs....they just went and worked where the work was.

Originally posted by Masonic Light

Originally posted by Minnie1985


why would it be dangerous in any part of the world to be associated with masons? do masons have a bad history in ancient times?, thank

Freemasons were condemned to death by the Holy Inquisition, and in various papal bulls. Furthermore, being associated with Freemasonry was considered a crime against the state in Nazi-occupied Europe, as well as the USSR and its satellites.

I would also like to add that the Ukraine recently made being a freemason illegal.

reply to post by Minnie1985


Freemasonry is forbidden in many Fundamentalist areas of the world. Many churches also forbid or discourage Christians from becoming masons, like Catholic and Lutheran.

The problem with Freemasonry in fundamentalist eyes is that masons do not promote any specific theology other than the belief in a supreme being. Any other religious or political discussion is expressly forbidden.

By providing an environment where Islam, Hindu, Jew and Christian can come together in harmony and fellowship those who hold religious and political authority become threatened.

I would reverse your statement about Iran... Something GOOD must have happened for it to be outlawed.

The Church hated us for hundreds of years, the Nazis hated us, killing us by the tens of thousands, fascists and communists hate us.

Despite having no specific political interest Freemasons have been at the forefront of many historical events, including the French and American revolutions.

You can even see examples here on ATS in the past where it might be considered to be dangerous to be a mason. We've had ATS members stalk and photograph us and even suggest we should be killed.

Aside from brotherly love, relief and Truth there is nothing altogether mysterious about Freemasonry. Our rituals are no more mysterious than many carried out in churches, synagogues, mosques and fraternities around the world.

The oath, handshakes and passwords are held inviolate, not because they have any special meaning, but because they are a simple test of a promise to ourselves and our brothers of our loyalty.

It's similar to your best friend sharing a secret with you if you swear to never reveal it, and then she says, "The sky is blue."

reply to post by protocolsoflove


Actually, Freemasonry is alive and well in Ukraine.

Grand Lodge of Ukraine

Originally posted by Minnie1985
Hi op, i personally believe that alot of freemasons don't have the slightest clue what they are part of...

I have a rather strong understanding of what I'm a part of.

Originally posted by Minnie1985
why would it be dangerous in any part of the world to be associated with masons? do masons have a bad history in ancient times?

The values that Masonry espouses today wouldn't seem so weird, but in older times values such personal liberty, free thinking, religious tolerance, and so on would have earned somebody the noose.

It's sad to say that in some parts of the world, Freemasonry is banned and condemned...we're actually listed as an enemy in Hamas's Charter.

Originally posted by Minnie1985
Hello, but why would it be illegal in iran? surely something must have happened that was bad for it to be made illegal?

Tyrants historically have never liked Freemasonry.

reply to post by Masonic Light


Ok I was mistaken. Went back and read the article and it was a proposition to arrest freemasons which did not pass. I guess this happened in 2004....

www.freerepublic.com...

Why is there so much bull**** in the truth community!