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Originally posted by EnochWasRight
I don't ask you to believe me on this, I just present the information. Jesus condemned the Builders (masons), the moneychangers (Bankers) and the false High Priests (Jesuits). This is the only sentence you need to run from the Masons.
Originally posted by getreadyalready
Originally posted by EnochWasRight
Originally posted by W3RLIED2
I want my ignore button back.
I'll leave you to your thread on my last comment. As always, it's a joy. I am not here to condemn you, only show you what is revealed in the Word of God on the subject. My hope is that you all see the truth and the truth sets you free from the lie.
Get out of Egypt. God is found in the Name of His Son only.
God is love.
A Post you should read. LINK Know them by their fruit.
edit on 29-5-2012 by EnochWasRight because: (no reason given)
What I don't understand is why people believe a Christian Faith should trump everything else? Masonry is not a religion, and it is non-denominational in its practice. So, why would someone's bible quotes and Christian fundamentals be relevant to a thread on Masonry? Masonry is not a path to heaven, it is a path to being a good person here.
I wonder if people like Enoch are going down to the Golds Gym and telling people that exercise will not get them into heaven, they must repent and accept Christ? I wonder if he is going to the Chamber of Commerce meetings and telling them they are following the wrong path? How about the Bridge Club at the Senior Center? I mean, is it his mission in life to go to every group or gathering that is not a fundamentalist Christian gathering and telling them they are doing everything wrong? It just makes no sense. I coach my kid's t-ball team, we have a hierarchy, structure, uniforms, secret symbols, why is Enoch not down there protesting and telling them t-ball won't get them into heaven?
Originally posted by getreadyalready
reply to post by EnochWasRight
Again...... so what?
This isn't a thread about how to get to heaven. Masonry is not about how to get to heaven. There are some very good Christian Masons, and I don't want to offend any of them, but I do not identify myself as a Christian, and I do not believe there is only one gate and one shephard. I have seen a stampede, and there is no need for a gate or a shephard at all. It just takes a good clap of thunder, or a shot from a shotgun, and the whole fence comes down, LOL!
What does all of your religious spewing have to do with Masonry?
Faith and Deeds
14 What good is it, my brothers and sisters, if someone claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save them?
15 Suppose a brother or a sister is without clothes and daily food.
16 If one of you says to them, “Go in peace; keep warm and well fed,” but does nothing about their physical needs, what good is it?
17 In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead.
18 But someone will say, “You have faith; I have deeds.” Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by my deeds.
19 You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that —and shudder.
20 You foolish person, do you want evidence that faith without deeds is useless[d]?
21 Was not our father Abraham considered righteous for what he did when he offered his son Isaac on the altar?
22 You see that his faith and his actions were working together, and his faith was made complete by what he did.
23 And the scripture was fulfilled that says, “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness,”[e] and he was called God’s friend.
24 You see that a person is considered righteous by what they do and not by faith alone.
25 In the same way, was not even Rahab the prostitute considered righteous for what she did when she gave lodging to the spies and sent them off in a different direction?
26 As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without deeds is dead.
James 2
Originally posted by Masonic Light
Originally posted by EnochWasRight
I don't ask you to believe me on this, I just present the information. Jesus condemned the Builders (masons), the moneychangers (Bankers) and the false High Priests (Jesuits). This is the only sentence you need to run from the Masons.
The fallacy there is quite obvious. The "builders" did not refer to Freemasons (it referred to the Jews who rejected Him), the "moneychangers" did not refer to bankers (it referred to those taxing the worshipers in the Temple), and the "High Priests" did not refer to Jesuits (it referred to members of the ruling Sanhedrin).
Since Jesus was probably an Essene, it can be said that he was a member of the prototype of Freemasonry which existed in that time. If anything, those whom He condemned are today represented by the anti-Masons, not the Masons.
Firstly, I believe salvation is a gift offered to all, regardless of religion. Also, Jesus emphasized the necessity of both WORKS and faith:
Originally posted by EnochWasRight
Josephus also mentions the builders as masons.
The builders Jesus mentioned were the ones connected from Solomon's temple and were the ones who built the temple that Jesus said would be destroyed.
Originally posted by emsed1
reply to post by EnochWasRight
You know... Your link in your sig points to a page called Links to Truth which include a discourse on "Faith without Works is Dead."
No, the builders whom Jesus mentioned were the Jews who rejected him: the religious fundamentalists, whose children are today's anti-Masons.
The "temple" mentioned by Jesus was not Solomon's Temple, which had already been destroyed centuries before His birth by the Babylonians (the Temple in use during Jesus' time was Herod's Temple, not Solomon's).
Rather, the "temple" that Jesus referred to that would be destroyed, but be raised back up in three days, was His own body.
Originally posted by getreadyalready
reply to post by EnochWasRight
In response to both of your posts....
I don't know any bankster Masons. I'm sure there probaby are some, but the ones I know are small business men and blue collar workers. The Masons I know founded the Tea Party in Florida, and they certainly are not in favor of the ongoing wars in Iraq, Afghan, Libya, Egypt, Syria, etc. I have to admit, a few of them do think we should attack Iran, but an equal number think that is absurd.
As for our symbols painted all over the world. I'm sorry, but anytime 3 sticks fall down, there is a decent chance of them making a triangle, LOL! Just about every living thing has eyeballs, and so they are a significant thing to notice, and to paint. Survival depends on keen awareness, so any company would be wise to at least consider an eyeball as their emblem. The sun or "blazing star" is kind of a significant feature to every living thing on earth. I'm pretty sure my 4 and 5 year olds painting the sun in every picture has nothing to do with Masonry.
So, if pre-kindergartners are drawing suns, and triangles, and eyes, then I'm pretty sure it is not the fault of Masonry when these things show up painted all over the world.
Blame your politicians, blame your peers, blame your own votes, blame selfishness, blame greed, blame human nature, even blame the devil if you believe in one, but don't waste time inventing a boogeyman to blame. There are plenty of real problems and real people that should shoulder the blame.
Originally posted by getreadyalready
reply to post by EnochWasRight
But what if I don't want to take Jesus' word for it? From what I know of Jesus, he wasn't a hardened criminal or a conspiracy theorist, and he didn't have his ear to the ground the way I do. I probably know more criminals than Jesus did, and they are not Masons. Priests and Bankers maybe, but not Masons, LOL!
You're entire barrage hinges on the words of Jesus, which is fine, for you, but since I'm not a Christian, why is it important to me?
I've shown that the symbology argument is bunk, and the lower/upper levels are bunk, and all you have left is religion, but many people of your same religion are also Masons and they do not have the problems you have. Many other Masons are not Christians, so they do not have the problems you have.
You are shouting nonsense from the rooftops. Why? Are you trying to "save" us? I don't want to be saved. Even if Jesus approached me on the street, and I was 100% it was really him, I would tell him I choose to experience this life for myself and reach the same conclusions he reached, but reach them of my own accord, through my own actions and my own consequences. I would tell him his father and I have already talked about this, and we are on the same page, and thank him for his concern, and be on my way.
You are shouting nonsense from the rooftops. Why? Are you trying to "save" us? I don't want to be saved. Even if Jesus approached me on the street, and I was 100% it was really him, I would tell him I choose to experience this life for myself and reach the same conclusions he reached, but reach them of my own accord, through my own actions and my own consequences. I would tell him his father and I have already talked about this, and we are on the same page, and thank him for his concern, and be on my way.
Originally posted by getreadyalready
reply to post by EnochWasRight
A book, retelling stories of men, retelling stories of Jesus, who was also a man. I don't think that will hold up under cross examination.
I hope I don't offend any of my Masonic brethren, because they are mostly Christians, and I myself was raised a Christian, but then I started finding holes in the religion.
Christ seems to have been an important man. An enlightened man. A wonderful teacher, and a pious and charitable man that has impacted millenia of his followers. That is a wonderful resume, I applaud him. I just don't need the middle man. I pray, and I receive answers. I go to church from time to time, and it is wondeful to see the people trying to do good, and be good, and be humble, and pious, and worshipful. Personally, I think it is silly. Any omnipotent being does not require worship, or praise, or fear, or thanks. It is completely illogical.
Do you require the ants in your yard to fear you? Worship you? Pay homage or sacrifice to you? No, you just want them to stay out of the kitchen and do their ant business.
I believe in God, and I also believe God has provided all the questions and all the answers, and prayer, and meditation, and life experience are the keys to unlocking all the questions and answers. My personal belief system does not require a Jesus character, but if it works for you, then GREAT!
For me, something Jesus may or may not have said, a few thousand years ago, to someone who may or may not have interpreted and repeated it correctly, so that 300 other someones could repeat it again and again, so that you could use it here to tell me about something I already know just seems pretty ludicrous. I think I'll trust my personal experience over your hearsay.edit on 30-5-2012 by getreadyalready because: (no reason given)