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Secular Researchers' Findings that UFO Activity is Not Extraterrestrial in Origin

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posted on May, 29 2012 @ 08:19 PM
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I guess all of those 14,15,16 ,17,18,19th century paintings of saucers were ideas the artists got from movies.... ?




posted on May, 29 2012 @ 08:40 PM
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Originally posted by RevelationGeneration
Dr. Jacques Vallee, one of the pioneers of secular UFO researchers, worked partly with the U.S. government along with Project Blue Book's Hynek. You might call Vallee and Hynek the founding fathers of scientific UFO study. Vallee is the author of 10 books on the scientific study UFOs, he helped coin the phrase in the 1970's "the inter-dimensional hypothesis" to explain UFO activity.

You don't know you know him, but Vallee was the inspiration for the scientist character in Stephen Spielberg's movie Close Encounters of the Third Kind.

In a Conspire.com interview, Vallee expressed that he thought some external force was causing people what he called "induced hallucinations."


Vallee didn't deny the possibility that UFOs can be extraterrestrials crafts. His words:

"It still may be a space craft. But it's not your usual kind of space craft. ...from the witnesses and their testimony we are dealing with an object that manipulates time and space."

From this interview on Tim Binnall radio show "Binnall of America" (July 20, 2008)
(starting from 78:18 min: www.cyberears.com...)

* * *

Tim Binnall: I want to ask you about your point here, you say certainly UFOs are reality, but you will be disappointed if they turn out to be a space craft.

Valle: Well, I just wanted to be provocative and get people off the idea that these are JUST space craft. The exact thing I said is that I am going to be dissapointed if they are only space craft from out of space. Because what do witnesses are describing to me doesn't behave like a space craft from out of space. It behaves like something that has the ability to manipulate time and space. And that's much more interesting. Because it brings us to the frontiers of physics. It still may be a space craft. But it's not your usual kind of space craft. ...And that's is still what people think of what they think of UFOs - that it's got to be some advanced space craft. But then eyewitnesses telling me that they'we seen when the thing took off it took off THROUGH the trees. Well, how do you go through the trees with the space craft? A rockets don't do that. Space Shuttle doesn't go through trees. What kind of object would do that? I know cases when somebody fired three times at landed UFO and the first time you heard the sound if bullet would hit the metal, the second time you heard the sound of the bullet going through a telephone book, and the third time bullet went through the thin air. The object had not moved. It was just not there anymore. So people quote me that UFOs don't exist and they are just hallucinations. I never said that. I simply said that from the witnesses and their testimony we are dealing with an object that manipulates time and space. And can dissapear on the spot. And I don't know how to make an object like that unless we relax what we know about space-time and what we know about the Universe. And I find that very very exciting.

* * *

To download full show, go to www.binnallofamerica.com...
edit on 29-5-2012 by sergejsh because: Link added



posted on May, 29 2012 @ 09:02 PM
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isn't everything that isn't nailed down extraterrestrial but terrestrial in origin? who are you gonna trust? a bunch of scientists or Me?



or maybe both, since we're all the same s**t anyway?
edit on 29/5/12 by mzungu because: stupid semantics



posted on May, 29 2012 @ 09:19 PM
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reply to post by RevelationGeneration
 


Wow, there are many fallacies with this way of thinking...



The Facts of what we know to be true:

1. Aliens are inter-dimensional/Spiritual beings.


If humans are spiritual beings, why wouldn't aliens be? You are assuming that "all" aliens are spiritual which I highly doubt. Some people can not see spirits and yet they can see aliens.



2. They do not use interstellar travel.


How do you know this? Maybe the beings that are too far away use teleportation but how do you know that they don't use interstellar travel? Don't they have UFOs? And we see some videos of UFOs coming from the sky down to The Earth.



3. They are malevolent.


Again, how do you know this and why are you generalizing for all aliens? You do know that they are individuals and there may be many different species, philosophies, and spirituality among them, right? Even the ones that were abducted, how do you know that this is malicious and they weren't doing something good? It is hard to judge when you don't have all of the details yet people make assumptions.



4. Their aim is to deceive man-kind.


How do you know that? And why are they deceiving and what are they deceiving man-kind of?



5. The film industry is helping to prepare us for a "grand deception".


If aliens are indeed evil, I don't see what "deception" the film industry is preparing us for since most films depict aliens as evil beings...



6. "Alien Abductions" stop in the name and authority of Jesus Christ


And they also stop in the authority of other gods such as Sophia the Goddess. Obviously, you think it is only Jesus because you didn't do research or you would have known this. Evil aliens can also be stopped in the name of The White Light and that is a very New Age concept.



7. "Alien Abductions" match the abilities of fallen angels as described in the Bible.


Really, The Bible talks about humans going on spaceships, from beings of other words for genetic research and mutations? Where is that Bible verse? Or is this just YOUR interpretation of something that can be seen in many other ways? You do know that there are many Christians not believing in aliens, right? And they do read The Bible.



8. "Aliens" bring primarily deceptive anti-biblical messages, as is reported by abductees and contactees.


And so does reality... The Bible says God made water and separated the bottom water from the top water and called it "Sky", that donkeys and snakes can talk and that the Earth is flat with 4 angels at its corners and Jesus will return in the "center" of this flat Earth..




"extraterrestrials" are intentionally evangelizing people to an alternate spirituality (new age)


By what means and for what motive? Are these ETs FORCING people to believe in something that they do not wish to believe in ? Even if so, that doesn't mean that ALL are doing it.


For some reason more and more people are starting to demonize aliens even though they are individuals and there are many types. This is like racism and hate and it promotes fear.

If The Fruit of The spirit is Peace, Love, and Joy, why is so much hate and fear being promoted.



posted on May, 29 2012 @ 09:36 PM
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Originally posted by RevelationGeneration
reply to post by bluestreak53
 


God promised to never destroy the earth with water again. He gave us the rainbow as a reminder of his promise. The next time he destroys earth it will be with fire.
edit on 29-5-2012 by RevelationGeneration because: (no reason given)


The rainbow is about light and water in interaction, and had to already exist, that's ambiguity, as per your say.

You talk about 'aliens' as being 'demons' but in which the Greek meaning of Demon already has ambiguity, that's ambiguity.
You mention Arthur C. Clarke being doubtful about interstellar travel, but he also said this,

"When a distinguished but elderly scientist states that something is possible, he is almost certainly right. When he states that something is impossible, he is very probably wrong." That's ambiguity.

Neutrinos have almost no mass and can walk high speed through rock, that's not ambiguity, unless of course it was actually a neutrino that hit the rock, and became something else as it encountered a rock.

The 'fact' is that we are not at a stage to even consider that your OP proposition from whatever source could be correct. Put another way, you consider UFO activity as being paranormal or psychic from the point of view that interstellar travel is impossible, and therefore not alien, why not consider then that aliens in whatever form, could get here faster than even communication



posted on May, 29 2012 @ 09:41 PM
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reply to post by AlchemicalMonocular
 


He died so that God's wrath won't be brought upon them all... until physical death,
Maybe you didn't catch the memo?



posted on May, 29 2012 @ 09:59 PM
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There is also another difficulty with the idea of space travel nearing light speed. Outer space is not an empty waste. The fact is that throughout space there is debris scattered everywhere in the form of cosmic gas, dust and particles. Any spacecraft would encounter them, and at low speeds brush them harmlessly aside. But at near light speed, it will smash into them with devastating results.


That modern technology can make at the moment the problem with this as with all things "ufo's" is that people are thinking like earthlings.

Technology can advance to overcome any obstacle at the moment, and we have all seen this in action. People said man couldn't fly, and he did, people said man will never set foot in the heavens, and he did,

Where will,drive, and determination meet and the crossroads of knowledge and inspiration man can do quite amazing things.

Any object traveling in space has mass, and some objects have so much mass a gravitational field can be generated, the most obvious example of this are comets and asteroids that have "flown" through the galaxy in some cases thousands and millions of years.

So why haven't those been totally devistated?

When man claims to know all things about all things that is the height of arrogance, and to leave this thread with some Bill Shakespeare," There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio,
Than are dreamt of in your philosophy."

Peace fellow space travelers. Your out there,somewhere saying "ufo's exist to".
edit on 29-5-2012 by neo96 because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 29 2012 @ 10:11 PM
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Originally posted by Malynn
Ugh, can't we have a separation of Church and ATS? It feels like every thread I go into these days has some Christian in it distorting reality to fit their holy book, quoting endless scripture, or telling us to repent. I'm not a fan of any organized religion but you don't see Muslims and Jews in here trying to convert everyone. It feels like it's getting a lot worse these days.

I hear you loud and clear, Malynn. They want everyone to join their cult. Looks like that want a war with us. So, lock and load.



posted on May, 29 2012 @ 10:13 PM
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UFO is a man made idea...3 letters describing something that can not be indentified.. therefore it is not Extraterrestrial in origin always.. a bird could be a UFO, an object flying in the sky that is un-indentifieable..

Starships and space vessels are manifested ideas, created by very advanced and intelligent beings, therefore Starships are Extraterrestrial in origin.

Man can barely get of its planet...

~ Love is an art



posted on May, 29 2012 @ 10:14 PM
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Originally posted by RevelationGeneration
Everything had to come from somewhere it didn't just explode into existence and create intelligent life.
Ah cool, now that you say that...where did your god come from?



posted on May, 29 2012 @ 10:15 PM
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You had some good points up until the religious insanity at the end. I personally think these "lights" are creatures that travel through space and sometimes visit the planet for water to convert to energy.



posted on May, 29 2012 @ 10:18 PM
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I think it's more plausible that ET's are not space travelers from a distant planet, but rather time travelers from Earth's own future. It would explain their humanoid appearance, their seemingly odd obsession with human genetics ect. Why would beings come from across star systems to "tinker" with human evolution? Why worry so much about us as a species if you are an entirely different species? I just don't buy that we are that "special" lifeforms that other interstellar races would care if we lived or died. Makes much more sense if we are the "aliens" anscestors, then they have a really vested interest in keeping humanity alive.



posted on May, 29 2012 @ 10:22 PM
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post removed for serious violation of ATS Terms & Conditions



posted on May, 29 2012 @ 10:23 PM
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post removed for serious violation of ATS Terms & Conditions



posted on May, 29 2012 @ 10:24 PM
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Originally posted by xiaofang
Nude colored Louboutin high heels with rounded toe, gentle shoe upper materials exudes a strong outward charm. Wearing Christian Louboutin Outlet, you will look so sexy and attractive and being the focus.
Who let the bot in? Maybe bots are demons too btw?



posted on May, 29 2012 @ 10:49 PM
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Originally posted by Hydroman
Who let the bot in? Maybe bots are demons too btw?


Of course they are of The Devil! If you do not have emotion then you can't have love and therefore you can not have God. The Aliens are not Extraterrestrial in Origin, they are robots created by Satan! They are here to deceive and there is nothing extraterrestrial about them!

Just kidding, but it illustrates a great point.

This type of arguing can be used for anything whether it is The Bible and Satan and Demons or whether it is for robots, or whatever..



posted on May, 29 2012 @ 11:20 PM
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Originally posted by pavil
I think it's more plausible that ET's are not space travelers from a distant planet, but rather time travelers from Earth's own future. It would explain their humanoid appearance, their seemingly odd obsession with human genetics ect. Why would beings come from across star systems to "tinker" with human evolution? Why worry so much about us as a species if you are an entirely different species? I just don't buy that we are that "special" lifeforms that other interstellar races would care if we lived or died. Makes much more sense if we are the "aliens" anscestors, then they have a really vested interest in keeping humanity alive.


Thats an interesting idea that i would like to add to.

Lets just say they are evolved earthlings trying to keep us and our egos from going nuclear, and maybe they left earth sometime in the near past, they could have discovered FTL travel, and maybe they started developing tech while traveling faster than light in order to cheat time, and while aging more slowly so they can advance in only a fraction of normal time.

I love theory.





posted on May, 29 2012 @ 11:35 PM
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reply to post by poopadoopoulis
 

The idea that ETs may not have possessed interstellar travel is also supported by author: Marshal T. Savage who wrote the book: The Millenial project, colonizing the galaxy in 8 easy steps.

He writes that the evidence of K1, K2, and K3 civilizations is lacking by the simple fact that nothing we can see throughout the universe shows any evidence of terraforming, a civilization that come into contact with planets, asteroid, or comets would have mined them for their resources, and would have left behind settlers who would then transform said objects by building ecologies and seeding them, and would leave a green tint that would be detectable through telescopes.

The seed ships would leave 50 years before with the settlers who would pave the way for the rest of the populations who would arrive much later.

An interesting book, and a very imaginative, and entertaining read.



posted on May, 29 2012 @ 11:47 PM
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reply to post by RevelationGeneration
 


Nice post, however I do object to the questions being answered to get to your theory. Your basing the fact that it would be impossible to travel long distances even at light speed becuase it would take to long. Thus all extraterrestrials must be interdimensional beings/demons.

Here's something that doesn't fit, with your theory.

1. Let's suppose a few alien species from distant planets are millions if not hundreds of millions of years a. of us technologically.

2. The universe is holographic and quantum physics is true and every point of the universe holds every other point in the universe.

Thus leading me to my theory. If their so advanced, I figure they have come up with the technology to travel "a lot" faster then light speed. They could possible create wormholes, open tears in space, have warp drive, plasma drive,etc. Just because a human came up with the theory of "nothing travels faster then light" doesn't mean its unversally true. Thus,this would alow them to either travel instantaneosly or really quick. Basically they might open a tear in space in front of their ship and come out the other side within seconds or travel with very fast propulsion ie. star trek "warp drive" and be at their destination in days or weeks.

Although this is all speculative, it doesn't mean they don't have this technology just because no one has seen it. "lack of evidence is not evidence of lack"

Again, they could be millions of years a. of us, allowing them to have superior technology. Just imagine comparing earth scientist's theories now compared to 400 years ago. Now multipy that by hundreds of thousands and that s the difference between our earth scientist's and "their" sceintists.

Good day, sir.



posted on May, 29 2012 @ 11:55 PM
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Originally posted by autowrench

Originally posted by Malynn
Ugh, can't we have a separation of Church and ATS? It feels like every thread I go into these days has some Christian in it distorting reality to fit their holy book, quoting endless scripture, or telling us to repent. I'm not a fan of any organized religion but you don't see Muslims and Jews in here trying to convert everyone. It feels like it's getting a lot worse these days.

I hear you loud and clear, Malynn. They want everyone to join their cult. Looks like that want a war with us. So, lock and load.


Thats why we are in "The Battle of Epping Forest"...
www.youtube.com...

They want us to bow down to their God Yahweh, infamous as the "God of Genocide". But who worships the Goa'uld out of choice?




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