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Greece to Leave Euro Zone on June 18

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posted on Jun, 19 2012 @ 02:00 PM
reply to post by Rocketman7

OMG I just realized something. Maybe the reason the Greeks are not the shipping magnates of the world today is because they are fat, and they are srooooo.

But I would be willing to bet they still know how to do it. See Pacino, scratch, claw, inch, by inch.

At least for the first few inches then once you have some momentum, you will be back in the saddle again.

posted on Jun, 19 2012 @ 02:14 PM
reply to post by Rocketman7

Ok, since it is the G20 here is a fundamental for you.

In the capitalist system and the democratic system, the government is not the enemy of the people they keep the score.

The people select governments and give them mandates and then they make those mandates into laws of the land, until the NEXT set of people are born or rise up and now its their turn to decide what the law is, so then again government now keeps THAT score and enforces it.

Its a bank of traditions, its a bank of policies, and a bank of national identity, made by and for the people.

And the influence of culture of course comes from art and artistic creative talent within the rank and file.

So building up trust in the government is important to having a good economy because you really want to take advantage of their ability to be trusted when you are in business.

posted on Jun, 19 2012 @ 02:30 PM
reply to post by Rocketman7

Everybody is looking me funny because I suggested that Europe take advantage of the emerging economies in the east by providing engineered products for production. Maybe people were waiting for someone to say go.

Before they would go to the trouble of finding out how to advertise in those countries to their target market.
The last thing you might expect is to get a phone call for an order for an industrial machine you make for the western market.
Well thats often because of price, but if the companies are now huge corporations there or large factories or planned factories and expansion that does mean that they will need equipment and not just a few tractors either.

So they do make their own but when it comes to advanced technology, the modern world still has the edge because they have money for research and development and stay ahead of the curve.

posted on Jun, 19 2012 @ 02:42 PM
reply to post by Rocketman7

As far as Spain goes, there was a time when they made leather goods and had an economy that was the same about as the other countries in the region because the other countries weren't zooming into the air, with giant skyscrapers, and really going after markets like pit bulls.

The bull run the running of the bulls, that is like a seven day event in Spain, and happens every day in the commercial centers of Europe.

Picture the meat racks rolling down the street, the guys running with dry cleaning on racks with paper in their mouths, hustle bustle, how can anyone level a playing field where some are running and some are walking?

But you make choices as a nation to not follow the herd, and to not be infected by the same social ills, and so then you still have to eat, so you still have to at least engage in a level of capitalism that allows you to exist at a comfortable level.

And so then you are certainly not taking advantage of one of your strengths which is the world has a very large Latin and Spanish population.

Food exports. Spanish food. Go for quality Spanish food exports for the world markets. And spirits of course.

And get your raw materials through the new trade route on the cheap.

edit on 19-6-2012 by Rocketman7 because: (no reason given)

posted on Jun, 19 2012 @ 02:48 PM

Originally posted by Rocketman7
reply to post by Rocketman7

And so then you are certainly not taking advantage of one of your strengths which is the world has a very large Latin and Spanish population.

Food exports. Spanish food. Go for quality Spanish food exports for the world markets. And spirits of course.

And get your raw materials through the new trade route on the cheap.

You know that if even 1 billion people, decided you made a good frozen paella thats a lot of money. and when you have a world wide population of 7 billion people who eat every day and who will usually prioritize food over other consumer goods, thats a big market you can tap into.
And it can be any food as well can't it? I mean does it have to be Spanish?

posted on Jun, 19 2012 @ 03:00 PM
reply to post by Rocketman7

Do you need to know how to physically do that without wrecking the European banking system?

Through trade organizations you obtain lists of potential clients and you contact them and you say I would like to send you a few sample products.

You introduce yourself as a company and you offer your service. And you do so using businesses that are already proven in the country mostly so they can expand their markets. On both sides of the trade barrier.

So once you have buyers you expand production. It actually does not cost as much to do that as you would think.

Since the company is already in business, and you are just promoting through sampling.
If YOU make a great product then you will have great demand. The product has to sell itself.

If you do not have a great product, then keep trying to make it great.

posted on Jun, 19 2012 @ 03:16 PM
reply to post by Rocketman7

I will go a little further. Ordinarily old style economics we would just say we will throw money at it. That is to say just tell the government to give money for economic expansion. But lets go into a little more detail and limit that throwing money at things for the moment.

So you have made contacts and you have sent samples and you have interested parties who want to place orders, you have taken those orders to the bank and they have agreed to help you expand along with the manufacturer of equipment who has given you terms.

But you are growing your business and doing it in stages. So ok where do you get the raw food items from to make your finished export items?
At this point people are not doing a lot of food shopping on the Internet compared to what they buy at the supermarket.

But the Internet is where you can get suppliers. And they will ship it to you. How it gets there and from where, is not important as long as you get what you need at the price you want to pay.
It doesn't have to come from any specific region at all.

The advantage you have in selling your products to the worldwide Spanish speaking population might be better understanding of the language and customs and your reputation which may carry some weight regarding quality.
And taste.

posted on Jun, 19 2012 @ 03:27 PM
reply to post by Rocketman7

What does it look like when food imports hit our doorstep in the West?

We have delicatessens, on almost every corner of the city downtown, as well as every grocery store has a deli section.

Then restaurants also buy imported products so they can have prestige and great flavor.
And they use suppliers. Local warehousing. The suppliers on that level get their products from International suppliers usually and so you see you have hubs of a sort where big companies take smaller company's products and ship them around the world with similar products to similar markets.

And the reason they use big companies? Just in time. Reliability is paramount.

edit on 19-6-2012 by Rocketman7 because: (no reason given)

posted on Jun, 19 2012 @ 03:38 PM
reply to post by Rocketman7

So what is a trade route? Is that Marco Polo on a donkey?

Is it a conglomeration of companies and governments or is it a physical means of getting products to market and raw materials to manufacturers?

It is a physical infrastructure that allows trucks to roll, and goods to move by land sea and air.

posted on Jun, 19 2012 @ 03:51 PM
reply to post by Rocketman7

So then if it is infrastructure we can now simplify the process and look at how we can improve the ways in which we are getting goods from A to B.

And if it is infrastructure we also know that means we must spend money. Money that is well spent, but we still need to spend it and to spend it we need to raise capital for investment.

And since its a large investment usually we want to be sure that we can assure the investors that it is a situation with long term gains.

A penny toll ends up paying for the London Bridge.

Do I personally need to tell the American military, how to build an infrastructure like that? I would think they are better than me at doing that. But then I just used them as an example. What is important is we decide who will do what.
Not everyone wants America on their territory building mega-projects it scares them with Imperialism and they have stated many times they are not interested in nation building.

So thats ok, we have a large global economy now and huge resources to call upon and investors willing to take up the challenge since they know the benefits of trade.

Still there are strategic areas that are important to military organizations and they would spend money on infrastructure if what they built had a dual purpose of serving them and serving commercial shipping etc.
And they are of course interested in what gets shipped.

So they need to be included and since they need to be included it would be wasteful not to put them to good use. Of course we are in negotiations for who will do what and where at this time.

posted on Jun, 19 2012 @ 04:15 PM
reply to post by Rocketman7

Here is more good news coming out of the G20...

Canada Invited to Trans-Pacific Partnership

As a country that has a wealth of raw materials, we can find new markets to supply and help to meet the demand.

Supply and demand.

posted on Jun, 19 2012 @ 04:19 PM
I heard something about the G20 wanting to force the greeks to tax their shipping industry?

The Greeks were saying they don't tax to stay competitive.

posted on Jun, 19 2012 @ 04:21 PM
reply to post by Rocketman7

from that link...

anti-competitive intellectual-property and supply-management policies.

These are the issues they are concerned about wrt Canada being included. They are just saying that well your chief economist is a pain in the butt, moi) who is some sort of idealist who is always insisting that the Internet be free and search engines are free and youtube is free and this whole file sharing business has driven us right round the bend for years.

Well thats the net made by and for the people.

Supply management policies thats me helping to create the S.C.O. and not giving them enough information to work with the process.
And well talk about just in time, it is not limited to shipping food.
Whats nice is that we can all get together like this and work to make things better and enjoy ourselves in the process.

posted on Jun, 19 2012 @ 04:29 PM
reply to post by Rocketman7

So why would we not have two routes run by two organizations each providing security with them cooperating in a neutral fashion?

You see two would be more reliable than just one.

Is it possible? Its something to consider. Then there would be competition.

If we improve shipping from Asia and India to the Middle East, we should plan for eventualities as best we can.

And if it looks like its just too conflictual to have everyone driving past each other every day and flying into each other all the time then we should pick just one. And say from A to B will be the security jurisdiction of X, with agreements in place for assistance through mutual need and cooperation for mutual benefit.

Now you would be thinking well then shouldn't we have a governing body and change responsibility like a democracy when it needs to be done and be able to shift responsibility from one to the other?


posted on Jun, 19 2012 @ 04:41 PM
reply to post by Rocketman7

So now we are in familiar territory forging trade agreements which include military presence and International Law.

The bankers, the investors all stopped wiping their foreheads as soon as I said that.

And lets not mistake International Law regarding political things which just goes on forever and people say well we aren't playing and so then the other side threatens them to conform and then they say we don't recognize your authority.

No we are talking about business law. And money. And that is where lawyers are used effectively every day around the world in trade. To settle financial differences. Its a money oriented capitalist process whereupon decisions which are made are not purely political. They are usually small things like lack of payment or insurance or customs, duties, tariffs, product quality issues and regulations.

Lawyers love that because they make money looking after that. A wise man, like many wise Chinese businessmen out there know how to streamline the process and meet the requirements and boy do they ship goods around the world or what.

posted on Jun, 19 2012 @ 04:55 PM
reply to post by Rocketman7

Am I doing a hand-off here? Thats the nice thing about being me, I can pass the buck.

If I don't pass it well though, it will just come back and hit my desk. And even after I pass it, I am expected to put on another hat and go sit at the table with everyone else only now, I have to help them pass it along usually.

By agreeing with them, that their plans, are plans that are feasible, practical, and intelligently made decisions from qualified individuals in a position of authority. So they will call me back. In the mean time they are making plans and working out the details.

So I have recently passed the buck a bit to the G20, and to some trade initiatives.

And have a small list of other pressing matters such as the IMF and its role and the UN and its role.

posted on Jun, 19 2012 @ 05:10 PM
A very interesting point has been raised a couple of times in the BBC coverage of the election.

The pro-Euro party now in power were supported by those over 50. The younger generations voted out of the €.

Which group of people are the most productive, most energetic, most politically engaged and more technologically driven?

This will be an interesting couple of months for those of us who are interested in sociology. I can almost guarantee that we will see a rise in the youth movement in Greece, pushing the elected government out.

That might not be fair or right in a democratic nation, but in a way I support that process. In my opinion the older generations have primarily voted for familiarity at the cost of their nation and their youth. They trust their elected far too much while the younger generations dare to question, investigate and criticize.

I think apathy has reversed. While it might have been true just five years ago that the younger generations were less politically involved than the older generation, the youth are now much more engaged because they know that they will be the ones having to pick up the pieces. The older voter is less concerned with the corruption, preferring to perhaps overlook it or feeling that nothing they do can change it, but the youth know they can, even if it does take a revolution.

I would expect to see far more violence and protests in Athens after this. And I would expect the newly elected government to fall either by force or by another election being called which finally brings the anti-€ party to power.

I wonder what will happen with Spain in the meantime, and how that might affect what happens in Greece.

posted on Jun, 19 2012 @ 05:28 PM
The UN and green issues

So then this is something that most people are concerned with. The net is very concerned with the environment and the way the planet is managed ecologically because it has a higher number of highly educated people as a group than the masses around the world as a whole.

So for us its one of the highest priorities that we manage the environment and do not destroy the earth with pollution or ourselves or our health.

And that is an area where Green Peace has been fighting for years as an example.

But mainstream scientists also support any initiative to preserve the environment realizing just how fragile it can be. One thing I want to stress and I will give this to the UN to remind people that we know a lot about the environment but we don't know enough about Omega points, and if we pass an Omega point, don't be surprised if you find mastodons frozen to death with grass in their belly or their mouths.

We might go over an Omega point and all of a sudden its 40 degrees C. in Toronto.

Or we might find that we have an irradiated food supply or lack of fresh water or of course wild fires everywhere from the hot dry conditions etc.

So in order to inform the general public you cannot talk about well 100 years from now it will be like this because people do not care what happens 100 years from now.

You need to talk about Omega points and how they effect local climates and agriculture and business and commerce. Do studies that show how a point is reached where larger changes occur which can be unpredictable. Is it a scare tactic? No its reality. Thats the reality of the situation that if you pass an Omega point the earth's system for moderating that part of the ecosystem will collapse. If not totally in all areas it only needs to collapse in your area and affect your ability to grow food or employ your workforce.

So you see if you keep preaching idealism, then they will respond in the way that Socrates would predict which is an excess of one virtue will result in a lack of virtue and a rebound effect.

So people will just say oh what a bunch of idealists.

If you approach them and say, according to our data, you know if you cross the Omega point here, that could trigger an effect that will cause you to lose money. Now they are more interested in listening to what you have to say. But you have to go further and explain to them how it affects them in monetary terms with examples.

If nuclear power plants do not conform to safety standards with backup generators and etc then X will happen.

Thats an easy one.

If you do not take lead out of gasoline then that will damage world health. Another easy one.
The price went up on gasoline when they stopped adding lead because they are capitalists and even if that meant not doing something to the gas which you would expect might make it cheaper to produce, thats irrelevant, if you want to change something they want to increase the price as if you had to bribe them.

Freon. Easy one.

Global warming? Air pollution? Quality of life. What is the quality of life for a coal miner?
You know you start getting into areas where they can just side step the issues.

So what if you said this particulate toxin? Oh, now you have a toxin that we can check for and it must meet safe levels and that is effective when it is policed like polluting rivers and streams.

So its always best to not be vague if you want to see results according to relatively recent history.

Love Canal? Mothers milk.

You see in all these cases we have viable arguments for enforcing laws since the issues are rather straight forward and specific.

If you are being vague you are usually not going to achieve your goals. Divide and conquer works a bit in terms of finding the worst part of the issue you want to address, show how it affects the most sensitive thing you can find, take it to the public to get support, use the law, and be specific.

So the UN can help emerging economies to realize the risks of their policies towards public health and the environment. Everyone wants their children to grow up healthy.

edit on 19-6-2012 by Rocketman7 because: (no reason given)

posted on Jun, 19 2012 @ 06:03 PM
reply to post by Rocketman7

Here is an example of pollution gone wild from Toronto in 1938 the day the Don River caught fire.

Recently we saw a devastating pipeline fire in China as well. Hopefully people will continue to treat these oil spills seriously.

But maybe China needs to look at its oil pipelines and make some new ones. If we need to bribe them, we must do so in true capitalist fashion and say well perhaps you could build a pipeline to Iran, to secure oil imports for Asia, if you respect the environment and be sure that the area is not polluted by the new pipeline.

This what most countries do today, they make stipulations. And in Canada we are quite stringent usually but since we are fanatics about the environment and green things in general, when a company insists that their studies show that the region will quickly recover, we still get nervous.

But if what they say is true scientifically we really can't argue against a consensus if a consensus can be reached. Case in point reaping oil from the muskeg, by sending out heating lines to heat the water and the ground and the oil, it rises to the top, it is collected and the giant octopus construction mayhem moves along.

Well how long does it take for swampland to return to swampland after a truck has driven through it?
Its a dynamic environment which recovers very quickly. Not all environments can.

At the same time mining and mercury is a constant issue.

Fish with mercury another serious issue.

So the food supply is something that needs to be protected and monitored by a trusted agency.

You see when I told you we have a team of geniuses, well sometimes they even surprise me and the UN has come up with a great idea which is up their alley and has been for years, global food supply.

So environment and global food supply go hand in hand. And so then they should also work with world health organizations, and then with the military, and now you see what they do as a functioning body outside of peace keeping missions. The organization which is made up of representatives of its member countries, my country , your country, etc, is not a foreign body its our organization. We made it as a planet and it is comprised of our representatives. So it is right there in the field all over the world with permissions to enter areas.

Thats their job.

posted on Jun, 19 2012 @ 06:15 PM
reply to post by Rocketman7

As part of that job, to manage the global food supply, they should look at food stores, and just like any empires in the past, food shortages can really mess your civilization up and even destroy it.

And who knows what might cause a food shortage, but storing grain was something most of them learned by experience.

Big ones help the little ones and etc and if you want to raise money for proper programs for emergency relief supplies then make it so. And in order to pay for it, create a completely separate subsidiary organization whose goals are to try to create stored surplus goods for use in emergencies. So then try to marry that program up with fund raising.

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