To atheists/non-believers: Why the evangelism? , page 9

posted on Jun, 17 2012 @ 02:21 PM

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Originally posted by Logical one
Yes we have fanastical tales of "The beginning"......Noah's flood.......Jesus miracles.........but some how to me 900 year old human beings just sounded even more ludicrous......possibly because it's not so outrageuos as the other parts of the Bible...........but outrageous enough to get a sense that most of the Bible is complete fabricated.......fairy tales......there I've said it.........fairy tales!

I've said - - if someone reads the bible as if it is a historical novel - - - they'd walk away scratching their head - - - wondering why anyone would believe it. Or even understand it. Its not a "fun" read.

Without the preprogrammed god belief - - - its really a jumbled mess.

Writing critics would be brutal.

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I think this would be an interesting book to read:

THE ATHEIST'S INTRODUCTION TO THE NEW TESTAMENT

How the Bible Undermines the Basic Teachings of Christianity

A DEVASTATING CRITIQUE OF BIBLICAL CHRISTIANITY! The Atheist's Introduction to the New Testament is your one-volume guide to the contradictions and inconsistencies found in Christianity's holy scriptures. It's the only resource you'll need to successfully debate Christian fundamentalists and expose the many weaknesses in the founding documents of the Christian religion. books.google.com...

edit on 17-6-2012 by Annee because: (no reason given)

Logical one

posted on Jun, 17 2012 @ 02:48 PM

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Originally posted by Annee

Without the preprogrammed god belief - - - its really a jumbled mess.

The "cop out" that believers in the Bible often give is that parts of the Bible aren't supposed to be taken literally...........but therin lies yet another problem............ask 100 Bible scolars which parts of the Bible are to be taken literally and which aren;t.........then you will end up with 100 different answers..........the scholars can't even decide amongst themselves..........what hope has the common man that the "word of God" was intended for in the first place.........let alone common man who lived a couple of thousand years ago!

petrus4

posted on Jun, 17 2012 @ 02:48 PM

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Originally posted by jiggerj
As for making decisions for other people: Here in the 21st century, and being a member of what is supposed to be a highly intelligent race, I also find war to be an utter embarrassment to mankind. Should we all just mind our own business on this too?
edit on 6/17/2012 by jiggerj because: (no reason given)

War only occurs at all, because of people thinking that they are entitled to make decisions for others.

Annee

posted on Jun, 17 2012 @ 04:13 PM

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Originally posted by petrus4

Originally posted by jiggerj
As for making decisions for other people: Here in the 21st century, and being a member of what is supposed to be a highly intelligent race, I also find war to be an utter embarrassment to mankind. Should we all just mind our own business on this too?

War only occurs at all, because of people thinking that they are entitled to make decisions for others.

War is about Power and Control.

Rarely do "people" have a say in it.

Annee

posted on Jun, 17 2012 @ 04:43 PM

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Originally posted by Logical one

Originally posted by Annee

Without the preprogrammed god belief - - - its really a jumbled mess.

The "cop out" that believers in the Bible often give is that parts of the Bible aren't supposed to be taken literally...........but therin lies yet another problem............ask 100 Bible scolars which parts of the Bible are to be taken literally and which aren;t.........then you will end up with 100 different answers..........the scholars can't even decide amongst themselves..........what hope has the common man that the "word of God" was intended for in the first place.........let alone common man who lived a couple of thousand years ago!

Yes. I would love to be a scholar of ancient text. Leaving it to those who are not - - - has mangled any true meanings. Man has interpreted it for his own purpose and control of those who will follow.

I like the following interpretation perspective. This is from a Light Being site. You know "energy beings" who can manifest physical form if they so choose. I say: "Listen to Jesus words from Above - not Below". Meaning understanding from the perspective of off-planet Light Beings. It makes more sense to me. Of course being Atheist I believe they are real beings - - that were instrumental in our development. Not some mystical omnipotent "guy in the sky".

If you think you are the person whose reflection you see in the mirror, then you are a stranger to your true self, and have made yourself part of the illusion of this world.

With great wisdom Yeshua/Jesus is quoted in The Books of the Savior, also known as Pistis Sophia (Faith-Wisdom): "Do not cease seeking day or night, and do not let yourselves relax until you have found all the Mysteries of the Kingdom of Light, which will purify you and make you into Pure Light and lead you into the Kingdom of Light."

And of the transformation of the physical body Jesus said: "Do not desist from seeking by day and by night, until you find the purifying mysteries of the light, which refine the body of matter and make it a pure light very refined." beingoflight.brotherofyeshua.com...

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Logical one

posted on Jun, 17 2012 @ 04:43 PM

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Originally posted by petrus4

War only occurs at all, because of people thinking that they are entitled to make decisions for others.

You mean like George Bush.........apparently God consulted him on that one!

petrus4

posted on Jun, 17 2012 @ 05:00 PM

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Originally posted by Annee

War is about Power and Control.

Rarely do "people" have a say in it.

Politicians and oligarchs are people, Annee. Psychopathic people perhaps, yes; but still people.

Annee

posted on Jun, 17 2012 @ 05:15 PM

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Originally posted by petrus4

Originally posted by Annee

War is about Power and Control.

Rarely do "people" have a say in it.

Politicians and oligarchs are people, Annee. Psychopathic people perhaps, yes; but still people.

What? You think I think animals besides humans are making war?

Would you prefer "those in charge?

I don't consider those in position of Power and Control - - psychopaths.

jiggerj

posted on Jun, 17 2012 @ 07:26 PM

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Originally posted by petrus4

Originally posted by jiggerj
As for making decisions for other people: Here in the 21st century, and being a member of what is supposed to be a highly intelligent race, I also find war to be an utter embarrassment to mankind. Should we all just mind our own business on this too?
edit on 6/17/2012 by jiggerj because: (no reason given)

War only occurs at all, because of people thinking that they are entitled to make decisions for others.

EXCELLENT COME BACK! But, you are right AND wrong at the same time. Sure, most of the time it seems we're conned into wars for the personal gain of others, but do you REALLY want any nation in the middle east (actually, any nation, period) to have nuclear, chemical and biological weapons? Don't you think it's right that we should decide against this?

Don't ALL laws determine what each individual can and cannot do? Don't you think it's right?

TKDRL

posted on Jun, 17 2012 @ 07:38 PM

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reply to post by jiggerj

Sure, most of the time it seems we're conned into wars for the personal gain of others, but do you REALLY want any nation in the middle east (actually, any nation, period) to have nuclear, chemical and biological weapons?

No. But the cat is already out of the bag, isn't it? We have them, who are we to say they cannot have the same? Hypocritical for us to think we can say that any other nation should not have what we do.

detachedindividual

posted on Jun, 17 2012 @ 07:49 PM

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reply to post by DeadSeraph

Because my non-belief in your God does not effect your life, your rights, your freedoms or how you are treated by your government.
But the Christian belief in a God influences my life, my rights, my freedoms and the way my government views me.

As a Pagan, I don't lobby government to strip non-Pagans of their rights. I don't demand that a school educates children to conform to my Pagan beliefs. I don't fund PR campaigns to demonize non-Pagans or try to influence laws affecting millions of other people who don't hold the same beliefs as me.

The reason I am often so vociferous about Christianity is because Christian groups often (I'm not saying ALL Christians) are constantly attacking society and attempting to force their will and demands on the rest of the public.

While there are millions of nice Christians out there, you cannot deny that there are numerous "Christian Organizations" determined to influence the rest of society and force their views on others.

If it were a Muslim organization lobbying for reading of Islamic prayer in schools you would be up in arms over it, so why should all the non-Christians simply accept Christian doctrine and meddling in law, government and education without argument?

When Christians stop attacking my rights and influencing my elected government for their own ends, then I'll shut up about it. Until that day comes, I will defend myself through argument and debate, exposing the hypocrisy and idiocy at every single opportunity

jiggerj

posted on Jun, 17 2012 @ 08:00 PM

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Originally posted by TKDRL
reply to post by jiggerj

Sure, most of the time it seems we're conned into wars for the personal gain of others, but do you REALLY want any nation in the middle east (actually, any nation, period) to have nuclear, chemical and biological weapons?

No. But the cat is already out of the bag, isn't it? We have them, who are we to say they cannot have the same? Hypocritical for us to think we can say that any other nation should not have what we do.

I've been thinking this for a while: If a country did start shooting nuclear missiles our way, do we really want to shoot off our missiles? We can fill the sky with ANTI-nuclear weapons, but who are we to destroy the entire planet? If the U.S. is wiped off the map, isn't it more important for the planet to survive?

TKDRL

posted on Jun, 17 2012 @ 08:04 PM

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reply to post by jiggerj

That is a great question. What is it that we contribute despite the fact? What can the west really offer? We haven't come up with crap since we supposedly went to the moon. I would like to think our moon trip was real, So I will assume such. What have we really accomplished since? Not much constructive, plenty destructive. Damn it, why is that?

Barcs

posted on Jun, 18 2012 @ 01:05 PM

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Originally posted by petrus4

Originally posted by Barcs
Scientists aren't going into your church services and telling you it's all fake, so please pay them the same courtesy... especially since, you know, only one of those things is backed by evidence.
edit on 15-6-2012 by Barcs because: (no reason given)

Atheists need to get rid of the claim that their arrogance is justified, because the evidence is on their side. I've never seen an atheist make that claim yet, where they didn't look exactly as much like a schizophrenic, screaming zealot as the average Christian, who claims that they also have abundant reasons for thinking that their version of things is, "the TRUTH!"

Stop becoming what you hate.

No offense, but religious people can be just as arrogant, and are often much worse, mainly because they try to debunk modern science with generally no knowledge of it at all. That is arrogance in its worst form. Now, I didn't say arrogance was justified, but atheists usually defend science from unjustified creationist attacks, and when science is attacked, the ignorance needs to be corrected. The evidence is on the side of science, atheism has nothing to do with it, since there is no evidence to suggest god does or does not exist. Defending science and knowledge from ignorance is ALWAYS justified, no matter what. I don't understand why so many religious folks are on this ridiculous crusade against science and knowledge. Stop it already. Be honest with yourselves, there's no reason why god and science can't coexist.

Until creationists stop attacking science, and stop trying to get laws passed in their favor, people will continue to defend science, and if that means beliefs are ridiculed in the process, then so be it. Denying legitimate fields of science like evolution, biology, genetics, gravity, etc is inviting yourself to be ridiculed. I, personally, don't ridicule people's beliefs unless they try to force them on you as fact, when it's actually faith or use it to justify an attack on science. Let's be real here, atheists rarely ever start these arguments and if the majority of creationists that post on here weren't so downright dishonest with their claims about science, nobody would even care what their beliefs are.

edit on 18-6-2012 by Barcs because: (no reason given)

Barcs

posted on Jun, 18 2012 @ 01:08 PM

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Originally posted by Wolf321
reply to post by Anonymous404

Atheism is a religion.

Your hair analogy was a nice try, but off.

If a person is bald because they shaved their head, their 'hair style' of choice is bald.

It is a matter of faith. One group has faith in something, the other has faith in the absence of something. If it were being based upon science and reason alone, they would be agnostic, or Ignostic.

Bald is still not a HAIR COLOR, which was the point. Not everyone chooses to be bald, most do not have a choice in the matter. Atheism is not a religion because there is no dogma, no worship ceremonies, no guilelines, nothing. Just because you don't believe in a god, doesn't mean you actually follow that notion, just like you don't base your life on the non existence of unicorns. Ask people what they DO believe, not what they don't and you'll really understand what their world view / belief system IS. Comparing passionate atheists to evangelical Christians is faulty because 1. atheists are not taking doctrine as literal truth and claiming it is fact with no supporting evidence and 2. atheists don't attack science and rarely ever make threads on here specifically to insult a religion. It's not even close to the same thing. Saying that creationism does not have objective evidence behind it isn't an insult, it's a fact.

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Erno86

posted on Jun, 26 2012 @ 05:52 PM

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DeadSeraph --- with your creepy avatar --- I'm not an atheist... but I'am sure as hell --- don't believe in your idea of God, whatever it is... because you ridiculed my own Gaod's when you quoted me in the UFO and Aliens thread.

edit on 26-6-2012 by Erno86 because: added creepy's name

BTW --- That's kook not cook, which I'm sure you are one.

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edit on 26-6-2012 by Erno86 because: (no reason given)

extra DIV

DeadSeraph

posted on Jun, 26 2012 @ 06:33 PM

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Originally posted by Erno86
DeadSeraph --- with your creepy avatar --- I'm not an atheist... but I'am sure as hell --- don't believe in your idea of God, whatever it is... because you ridiculed my own Gaod's when you quoted me in the UFO and Aliens thread.
edit on 26-6-2012 by Erno86 because: added creepy's name

BTW --- That's kook not cook, which I'm sure you are one.
edit on 26-6-2012 by Erno86 because: added BTW
edit on 26-6-2012 by Erno86 because: (no reason given)

I'm glad you chose to come all the way to my thread here to post that (which is completely off topic and could have been posted over there). I'm the kook yet you believe Aliens are your God's? I suppose it's no less fantastic than an eternal, almighty creator. Have a nice life

extra DIV

ihavenoaccount

posted on Jun, 27 2012 @ 07:55 AM

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The 'new atheism' movement is really a sorry sight. It's funny, though, because many of us here proclaim religion to be the seminal form of indoctrination over the past few thousand years. If you look around now, it's almost as if secularism is being shoved down our throats.

Don't misunderstand me, here. I'm an agnostic (bordering on panentheism) and I have major scruples with each of the major religions. When I was a Catholic, I used to get the Great Harlot crap from other denominations all the time, and no feelings were spared. I was in primary school at the first time.

In my experience, evangelism is harmful regardless of who practises it. Atheists/agnostics like to point out that faith might all be for nothing. Many Abrahamic theists liken it to warning people about a burning building, and so on.

On top of this, there's a huge victim culture in every camp... and you know what? Each one is justified. Atheists are shafted by the system at times, just as Christians can be. If one stops looking past themselves, they can see that both are portrayed negatively by the media (mainstream or otherwise, all media is biased).

But on ATS specifically? There's no love. Don't get me wrong; there are some staunchly opinionated yet highly respectful and diplomatic characters here on all sides, but there are some posters who love their CAPITAL LETTERS AND EXCLAMATION MARKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! They also love that "I KNOW 100% FOR A FACT!" phrase. Of course, many of us feel that way, but is that really a way to talk to people? It's arrogant. It's rude.

There's no evangelism there. If anything, it's exactly how the MSM portrays us. Conspiracy nuts with a superiority complex, "I have the hidden truth and you don't."

Annee

posted on Jun, 27 2012 @ 06:22 PM

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Originally posted by ihavenoaccount
The 'new atheism' movement is really a sorry sight. It's funny, though, because many of us here proclaim religion to be the seminal form of indoctrination over the past few thousand years. If you look around now, it's almost as if secularism is being shoved down our throats.

What is the "new atheism" movement?

Secularism is not being shoved down anyone's throat.

Education and access to factual information has awakened a lot of people.

ihavenoaccount

posted on Jun, 27 2012 @ 07:03 PM

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reply to post by Annee

If you ask me, secularism and religion both have their days of tyranny and persecution when it suits them.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Atheism

Since it's more about actively countering religion, there's bound to be a bit more verbal aggression... not that it's unwarranted. I'm only speculating here, but I really think the bolder stances of Richard Dawkins and the like inevitably draw the wrong sorts of mindsets to the cause.

For example, you mentioned resources being much more available to people who want information these days. That goes without saying. However, some atheists/agnostics aren't at all interested in hows and whys of genetic mutation and natural selection. They don't have to, since the onus isn't on them to prove their lack of belief. But when they say "EVOLUTION IS A FACT!!" and you ask them about it, they don't have the first clue.

Like I said before, nothing wrong with a secular state. I'm all for it. But it seems to be the new craze in pop culture. Here's a theory. There are many impressionable people who have been trained not to think for themselves. They might watch adult cartoons (Family Guy, South Park, etc.) sitcoms, and stand up comedians that poke fun at religion with rather basic arguments (sometimes, not all). It's funny and provocative, and they eat it up.

When you have more and more people thinking they're being edgy by poking fun at "dumb God-botherers". As a reflex action, Christians will think they're being persecuted against since that's what it says in the good book.

It's a lot like how many Christians push creationism and heaven/hell without reading the Bible. Also a lot like that "Anti-racism is a code for anti-white" mantra that's almost everywhere these days.

As said before, I've nothing wrong with healthy debate and (consensual) evangelism. It's when people literally shout down or poke fun at the beliefs of others to plant seeds of insecurity. Some atheists and theists alike are guilty of this.