To atheists/non-believers: Why the evangelism?

reply to post by DeadSeraph


I have a theory: Secularism is more respectable in the UK, and skepticism of religious indoctrination goes back to the birth of the Church of England. This emboldens atheist intellectuals like Dawkins, because it gives them a relatively solid base, from which to "attack" from.

Anyway -- I starred and flagged your post. After our last exchange it is clear to me that you are genuinely seeking dialog and understanding, and I have great respect for that.

I actually enjoy comparative religious study. I spent several years in parochial schools (in early childhood) and for the most part -- loved it. I wish we could all get along without discriminating or attacking one another based on our religious / spiritual beliefs (or lack of them). I would rather talk to 5 door to door Mormons (who are respectful and answer questions openly to the best of their ability) than discuss celebrity gossip or tv sitcoms.

Originally posted by 0zzymand0s
reply to post by DeadSeraph

 

I have a theory: Secularism is more respectable in the UK, and skepticism of religious indoctrination goes back to the birth of the Church of England. This emboldens atheist intellectuals like Dawkins, because it gives them a relatively solid base, from which to "attack" from.

Anyway -- I starred and flagged your post. After our last exchange it is clear to me that you are genuinely seeking dialog and understanding, and I have great respect for that.

I actually enjoy comparative religious study. I spent several years in parochial schools (in early childhood) and for the most part -- loved it. I wish we could all get along without discriminating or attacking one another based on our religious / spiritual beliefs (or lack of them). I would rather talk to 5 door to door Mormons (who are respectful and answer questions openly to the best of their ability) than discuss celebrity gossip or tv sitcoms.

I think you've summed it up nicely (in regards to the U.K). The catholic church played such a huge role in the nations history that I suppose it's easy to see why it's become a center for atheist ideas and proponents.

Thanks for your thoughts. I agree with your sentiments about civil discussions completely. This is the kind of dialog I'd like to see both sides having more frequently. I actually really enjoy discussions with atheists who are capable of being civil and rational about the subject. I find them to be very interesting and intelligent people. In fact I think to some extent I envy them

It's the people that get belligerent that perplex me (hence this thread).

The root of the problem is the grouping of people in "ATHEISM" or "BIBLE THUMPERS" or groups at all, and assuming everyone that believes one or the other is part of that group.

I am an individual.

I am as much an individual as you. Or him, or her...so on and so forth. Group labels are for casting judgement. Judgements of individual opinions to fit a group.

Why is it done? Fear. Fear is key to evolution, progress and survival. None of these things happen without fear.

Some people think, for example: If you don't believe what I believe, I fear I could be wrong. If I am wrong, I will NOT get to enjoy eternity with virgins in paradise. BUT If I ASSERT my judgement and opinion, that would have to make me right? Then you might think all your devotion is for nothing. No? haha. .

It's also likely that I'm not making much sense. I'm having trouble articulating my thoughts, with all this Gin in me. haha.

reply to post by lives
Problem is that your belief is off even in the disbelief. It's not that these things could not happen at all, but more that the issue is did they happen the way that it was written?

1. With animals talking: 1. Animals do have languages--just not usually human-used, nor often quite as complex (debated). 2. Some animals manage to talk in human languages enough to get the point across. Had a dog that used to tell me "out" when she wanted out--literally. The more mute one I have now? She has her cues--frankly she has us trained, lol. 3. Animals have the capacity to process language--they have the brain space for it.

The part where the disbelief comes in is that this snake could be articulate, capable of reasoning on our level.

Think about this, many of those who are for evolution are constantly pushing for most animals being FAR smarter than we give them credit for--because we're evolved from them, we shouldn't be so far removed that we are too unique as to be considered unaccountable. (Literally, people are running with the reasoning that if we can prove animals are as smart as us, then there's no God. Seriously.)

So, first, it takes all kinds. Second, exactly what demographic is REALLY for this level of intelligence in animals? Both sides are discounting the other and pushing the same reasoning forward, form both ends--just with a different conclusion. And this is typical.

2. The man parting the oceans was not merely a man parting the ocean. This is where the trick is. This is a man where the claim is that he was given more power than a man should have. In modern thinking: this is the dude who was given the cheat codes to the programming by the programmer.

This is the only one you mentioned that is really difficult. But the mistake is in thinking that the power came from Moses, when looking at the given information. The whole point of the sea crossing was to be so incredible that it isn't something a man could do on his own.

3. The living in the belly of a fish: Even in humans, we don't have acid in our stomach every waking moment of every single day, so the whole thing comes down to how frequently a big fish puts out acid--and what fish. The Greek word there is the word that's used for any large ocean-living creature (including the Kraken, lol) So to prove this impossible is to know all the species in the ocean (which we don't), to know what conditions cause them to swallow without biting (something else we don't know), to assume that the creature in question still exists (the writing is older than 2000 years, what has died out?)

Look, the whole point to much of the Biblical story is for things to be so bizarre that they cannot be accounted by natural phenomenon. The Miracle in Jonah is not that he was swallowed and survived, but that he made it from a boat going in the opposite direction from Nineveh, to being spit up on the shores not far from Nineveh. But believing that something is capable of swallowing a man whole, and the man surviving? Sure, could happen. heck, they survive being half-swallowed often enough--forget whole.

So, is it reasonable to doubt it? Sure, just as much as it's reasonable to believe it could happen. It's just a matter of the assumptions that we hold to have any given view.

Originally posted by rtyfx
reply to post by Jay-morris

 

I have not joined an organized religion.

My feeling is that what I experienced is bigger than that.

Thats good you dont need a made up book to have
fairh in another being. Ad long as you are a good person
who helps others, then thats all what matters.

Its funny, the bible says god gave us free will. It also says
if you question god, or dont believe in god, then you are
going to hell lol Why the hell did he give us free will if we
cant question him, or dont believe him because of a book
clearly written by the minds of man.

Its all a complete joke!

reply to post by Jay-morris

It's true that the Bible contradicts itself, but I still have to respect the people who believe it even if they don't respect me. It's a matter of conscience with me.

There is wisdom within despite the contradictions.

Originally posted by CynicalDrivel
reply to post by lives

 

2. The man parting the oceans was not merely a man parting the ocean. This is where the trick is. This is a man where the claim is that he was given more power than a man should have. In modern thinking: this is the dude who was given the cheat codes to the programming by the programmer.

This is the only one you mentioned that is really difficult. But the mistake is in thinking that the power came from Moses, when looking at the given information. The whole point of the sea crossing was to be so incredible that it isn't something a man could do on his own.

Parting of sea......tsunami.

ohmyvolcano.blogspot.com.es...

ohmyvolcano.blogspot.com.es...

ohmyvolcano.blogspot.com.es...

ohmyvolcano.blogspot.com.es...


Break it down into 'made up', 'not made up' and 'exagerated'.

It is because atheists, for a long time atheists were unable to voice their opinion, from fear of being imprisoned, harassed etc. In recent times however there has been a growth among the number of atheists and a bit more of a relaxed atmosphere when it comes to atheism. This allows the atheist a bit more safety to speak their mind.

Anyways I would not call an atheist who is being vocal about his or her opinion as being evangelism.

No offence, but to me it sound like you are just up set that more and more people are atheists these days and you don't like what they say so you want them to just go away.

Originally posted by tiyxx
It is because atheists, for a long time atheists were unable to voice their opinion, from fear of being imprisoned, harassed etc. In recent times however there has been a growth among the number of atheists and a bit more of a relaxed atmosphere when it comes to atheism. This allows the atheist a bit more safety to speak their mind.

Anyways I would not call an atheist who is being vocal about his or her opinion as being evangelism.

No offence, but to me it sound like you are just up set that more and more people are atheists these days and you don't like what they say so you want them to just go away.

Yes, of course.

Did you even bother reading the thread?

Not everyone gets there mind opened enough or understands the secrets of the knowledge of truth. Count yourself fortunate for knowing so. If you don't know but are open minded just ask the universal unconcious (god) to show you the truth and the true path. If you ask in your mind you might be surprised what you might discover

reply to post by r2d246


Did you open your mind up to the links I posted above?

Originally posted by PotatoSaladMafia
reply to post by Kryties

 

When an athiest tries to just go about their day we get hammered; lied about, threatened, etc... So we stand up for ourselves. And then we get criticised for that.

But we're proud and we won't stop.

Pride within this context doesn't imply what you think it does. It actually suggests fear and insecurity.

I'm still afraid of Christians myself, so I do genuinely understand. They tell us we're going to Hell, and in childhood we will generally have been trained to believe it.

However, I'd have a lot more respect for you, and I think it would probably be a lot more cathartic for yourself as well, if you'd actually admit that you're afraid of Christians. If you name the problem honestly, in terms of what it actually is, then you're much more likely to be able to come up with an effective means of dealing with it.

reply to post by petrus4


That all depends of what type of atheist you are. You see, most atheists (even Dawkins) focus on why they hate god, why they dislike the Abrahamic religions or that they simply just don't get it. What almost none do is view the religious through wise eyes (rather than bewildered ones), which is necessary if the fear factor is to be extinguished. A lot of atheists also dislike Christians/Muslims/Jews due to not appreciating being belittled and not being thankful for, as you say, threats of hell.

Well, what is the lake of fire anyway? The caldera of a volcano.....in the volcanic 'holy' land?

You'd better believe it and, if you do, you'll not hate god anymore but pity the people who devoted their lives to him, defunct volcano god that he was, and will certainly not feel so put out by bullies waving their finger and smugly reminding you of your enternal punishment.

You will see things a whole lot clearer......and then, and only then, will you truly be an atheist.

Originally posted by TheFogHorn
reply to post by petrus4

 

That all depends of what type of atheist you are. You see, most atheists (even Dawkins) focus on why they hate god, why they dislike the Abrahamic religions or that they simply just don't get it. What almost none do is view the religious through wise eyes (rather than bewildered ones), which is necessary if the fear factor is to be extinguished. A lot of atheists also dislike Christians/Muslims/Jews due to not appreciating being belittled and not being thankful for, as you say, threats of hell.

Yep. You get a star. You'd get more than one, if I had that option.

reply to post by petrus4


Why thank you

A lot of fear could be removed from this earth if only we could all de-robe him Wizard of Oz style.

The time is nigh!

Follow the yellow brick road.....follow the yellow brick road (rivers of fire leading to the volcano god by any chance?).

Look up OH MY VOLCANO and do a lot of reading before doing any asking.

Originally posted by Kryties
After 2-3 thousand years of Christianity and other religions being rammed down everyone's throats, I think the atheists have a right to be persistent in attempting to get their opinion heard without being drowned out by half the worlds population.

edit on 29/5/2012 by Kryties because: (no reason given)

Originally posted by DeadSeraph
I am going to assume (perhaps wrongfully so) that atheists or non-religious people dislike being preached at by "bible thumpers" or having their morning coffee or sleep interrupted by zealous mormons or jehovas witnesses banging at their door trying to save their souls. I'm going to guess that this type of behavior may even piss you off, and you may be left asking yourself: "who the hell do you think you are to tell ME what I should believe"? So assuming this is true, why turn around and do it to others?

Is the irony lost on you?

I think you missed this part of the OP, Kryties.

Originally posted by Deetermined
Easy. It's called "Spiritual Warfare".

It's just that atheists don't understand or recognize the driving force behind their participation in it.

This is BS, and the atheists here aren't the only ones who are getting tired of it.

Either grow up, or seek deprogramming.

Originally posted by ChristianJihad
reply to post by DeadSeraph

 

At the end of the day it is a war when rediclous and dangerous doctrines are preached to children, the uneducated and the desperate some people have a tendancy to do things normal reasoning minds wouldn't even contemlplate, like flying airplanes into buildings, genital mutilation of children, burning possible witches to death etc

Indeed war it is, so called moderate xtians scare me more than muslims, you just never know when god will tell them to put a gun to your face

edit on 29-5-2012 by ChristianJihad because: cont

Someone else, earlier in the thread mentioned a vocal minority. Here is the personification of such, kids, in all it's ghastly glory.

Seriously though, it's true. The silent majority of any group are just that; silent. Generally speaking, said vocal minority will be motivated by a particular negative experience of the target/adversary group which they had at a young age, and then swore a sacred vow of lifelong jihad not long after.

Sort of makes you wonder what the Christians must have done to Dawkins as a kid. It must have been horrible.

Originally posted by Azadok2day
You are referring to the evolution fairy tale ? Then these nut jobs vote and upset you ! The blatant hypocrisy of these people . You should run for government and sponser bills to kill all these people just to show them how tolerant you are .

You should pick up a science book.

Yes, anybody who dismisses evolution for no reason other than contradiction of literal passages in an ancient story compilation book is a nutjob. Thanks for reminding me of that.

If history wasn't chock full of examples of atheists being tortured and killed in the name of religion, I think they'd be a bit less vocal about their points. The real issue is when creationists try to attack science with zero knowledge of it. I will speak out against that until the day I die. If that nonsense didn't happen, then atheists and science supporters wouldn't constantly bash them. No offense, but if you live in willful ignorance, you deserve it, especially when you try to tell others they are wrong.

Scientists aren't going into your church services and telling you it's all fake, so please pay them the same courtesy... especially since, you know, only one of those things is backed by evidence.

Originally posted by Barcs
Scientists aren't going into your church services and telling you it's all fake, so please pay them the same courtesy... especially since, you know, only one of those things is backed by evidence.

edit on 15-6-2012 by Barcs because: (no reason given)

Atheists need to get rid of the claim that their arrogance is justified, because the evidence is on their side. I've never seen an atheist make that claim yet, where they didn't look exactly as much like a schizophrenic, screaming zealot as the average Christian, who claims that they also have abundant reasons for thinking that their version of things is, "the TRUTH!"

Stop becoming what you hate.