To atheists/non-believers: Why the evangelism?

Originally posted by ihavenoaccount
reply to post by Annee

 

If you ask me, secularism and religion both have their days of tyranny and persecution when it suits them.

Religion is a belief system - - - that through government tries to force its belief on others.

Secularism does not permit religious beliefs to be forced on others (in theory).

Unfortunately - - the USA government is still weighted down by fundamental Christians that want to dictate how others should live their lives.

Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by ihavenoaccount
reply to post by Annee

 

If you ask me, secularism and religion both have their days of tyranny and persecution when it suits them.

Religion is a belief system - - - that through government tries to force its belief on others.

Secularism does not permit religious beliefs to be forced on others (in theory).

Unfortunately - - the USA government is still weighted down by fundamental Christians that want to dictate how others should live their lives.

I'm not so sure the last paragraph is an accurate statement. I see that accusation used a lot here on ATS, and it's my opinion that there really aren't that many devoted Christians within politics (if at all). It seems to me rather, that they pretend to be Christians and pander to the fundamentalists and Christian right because there are a lot of votes to be won within that demographic.

Originally posted by ihavenoaccount
They don't have to, since the onus isn't on them to prove their lack of belief. But when they say "EVOLUTION IS A FACT!!" and you ask them about it, they don't have the first clue.

Why do those who want to counter Atheism always bring up Evolution?

What? Like every person who lacks belief in god has their head stuck in a science book? I sure don't.

Is every man turned on by a blonde bimbo with boobs? Oh wait! Some have more interest in ethnic types.

Originally posted by DeadSeraph

Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by ihavenoaccount
reply to post by Annee

 

If you ask me, secularism and religion both have their days of tyranny and persecution when it suits them.

Religion is a belief system - - - that through government tries to force its belief on others.

Secularism does not permit religious beliefs to be forced on others (in theory).

Unfortunately - - the USA government is still weighted down by fundamental Christians that want to dictate how others should live their lives.

I'm not so sure the last paragraph is an accurate statement. I see that accusation used a lot here on ATS, and it's my opinion that there really aren't that many devoted Christians within politics (if at all). It seems to me rather, that they pretend to be Christians and pander to the fundamentalists and Christian right because there are a lot of votes to be won within that demographic.

A politician is supposed to represent the people of his district or party.

However - - of course they do it for votes.

Either way - - its a fight to keep this country secular. I don't consider that a funny trend.

Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by ihavenoaccount
reply to post by Annee

 

Secularism does not permit religious beliefs to be forced on others (in theory).

Unless you count fanatics like Dawkins writing that by the time you get to one of his books, he earnestly hopes that you'll be as much an atheist as he is, of course. But hey, he's completely in the clear, because that is technically entirely non-coercive.

Annee, the bottom line here is quite simple. Yes, the Christians have a tendency to be brainwashed, authoritarian, and obnoxious. However, so also do large numbers of you. It can be somewhat amusing to watch atheists attempt to plead innocence of the same annoying behaviours that Christians often engage in, when the reality is that a lot of the time, atheists are really no better at all.

Secularism in theory, yes. Probably wasn't the word I should have used.

But there are many "New Atheists" who are just as self-righteous as fundamentalist Christians. That's all I'm getting at. We're talking about aggressive evangelism here. Government policy is very much related, yes, but this thread is asking why (some) atheists feel the need to demonize religion when unprovoked.

I'm not from the US, so my knowledge of the reproductive health debate is rather sketchy. In any case, I stand with those who should be entitled to it no matter who they work for.

In the UK, however, there are atheists who want to expunge creationism from the curriculum in faith schools? Why? They teach evolution in science and that's it. I went to a Jesuit school and the only creationism "taught" stayed within the realms of school assemblies and religious education. Believe it or not, they wanted us to reach our own conclusions. That was only four years ago, and my brothers say things haven't changed since.

But still, there are those who want to censor information under the guise of not wanting unjustified beliefs taught under tax pounds. Fair enough, but it's comparative religion. It isn't taught as fact anywhere in the UK.


The bottom line is, you don't need to be religious to be a douchebag with a disregard for others' rights. I'm agnostic, and there isn't a holy book in the world that rings completely true with me at the moment. But I try to be diplomatic, respectful and considerate to others when discussing these matters. That's all the OP is trying to get at.

Originally posted by petrus4

Unless you count fanatics like Dawkins writing that by the time you get to one of his books, he earnestly hopes that you'll be as much an atheist as he is, of course. But hey, he's completely in the clear, because that is technically entirely non-coercive.

I have never listened to or read Dawkins. My lack of belief comes from researching the origin of religions.

Yes, the Christians have a tendency to be brainwashed, authoritarian, and obnoxious. However, so also do large numbers of you.

How many Atheists have you met in real life? Not on discussion boards - - but in your every day real life?

It can be somewhat amusing to watch atheists attempt to plead innocence of the same annoying behaviours that Christians often engage in, when the reality is that a lot of the time, atheists are really no better at all.

Wouldn't know. Never encountered another Atheist in real life.

I've been watching Christians publicly kicking and screaming about losing their hold on society since the 50s. Its been quite a show.

Originally posted by ihavenoaccount

But there are many "New Atheists" who are just as self-righteous as fundamentalist Christians.

Where do you meet these Atheists in your every day life?

Do they come knocking on your door?

Do they wear symbols of Atheism? Do you know what that symbol is?

There are six Christian churches within 4 blocks of me.

How many Atheist gathering places are near you?

reply to post by Annee


Yo, yo, yo... I ain't countering atheism. Not in the slightest.

This is what I wrote, and I'll try to be clear this time (sometimes I'm not): there are some atheists who haven't the foggiest idea of how evolution works, yet they'll say it's a fact when arguing against creationism.

I have a... rudimentary comprehension of evolution. I'm good with natural selection, but I'm no geneticist. I've also studied the creationist argument. Evolution is where I'm sticking, so I'm not against you on that, please understand.

The reason they evangelize is to be able to sleep at night. It's not easy to deny truth when you eat it, walk in it, swim in it, and interact with it every day. So they try to convince themselves they are right. But even so, they are still wrong.

Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by ihavenoaccount

But there are many "New Atheists" who are just as self-righteous as fundamentalist Christians.

Where do you meet these Atheists in your every day life?

Do they come knocking on your door?

Do they wear symbols of Atheism? Do you know what that symbol is?

There are six Christian churches within 4 blocks of me.

How many Atheist gathering places are near you?

I do actually meet atheists like this in my everyday life. Some of them are my closest friends. Some of them are friends of friends. Both groups love to post anti-religious pictures on Facebook and the like. I don't have to look at them, but you don't have to open the door for a Jehovah's Witness either (I get them every weekend, and I know what they look like. They're a cult, and many consider them un-Christian). There are many symbols that atheists and agnostics have, and these people use none (if they know of them). Instead, they use memes that demonize religion and call it lighthearted banter. My old piano teacher goes to Humanist gatherings a lot, and I'm somewhat tempted to join him.

Yes, there are theists who do these same things. But does it justify like behaviour? It's rude and unseemly, and there is no excuse to not be diplomatic in the face of the opposition unless lives are immediately at stake.

Originally posted by Annee
How many Atheists have you met in real life? Not on discussion boards - - but in your every day real life?

I try to avoid them, but I could go to the international atheists' conference which has been held in Melbourne, not far from me in fact, for at least the last few years. Dawkins is usually one of their most prized speakers, I believe.

I also have a maternal uncle who has very much displayed the, "For Science!" meme at times, as well.

I've been watching Christians publicly kicking and screaming about losing their hold on society since the 50s. Its been quite a show.

The reality is that Christians don't really want to take over the world any more or less than any other group of human beings, as far as I'm concerned. They've had a turn for the last 2,000 years, however, and they're now on their way out. So yes, they're naturally quite upset about it.

I've become convinced that megalomania is an inherent element of human nature. I don't know of any religion, special interest group, subculture or minority of any kind that doesn't contain at least some who dream of world domination, and atheism itself is definitely not immune. Pinky and the Brain were truly universal citizens.

Originally posted by ihavenoaccount
reply to post by Annee

 

Yo, yo, yo... I ain't countering atheism. Not in the slightest.

I can read.

Point is - - - you're forming opinions of Atheists mostly from what you read in discussion forums on the net.

You're probably talking mostly to 20 year olds - - who were raised in a religious household and are rebelling. Some may actually continue on with lack of belief in a god - - - some will go back to believing. This seems to happen a lot once they get married and have kids.

You are not encountering Atheists (that you know of) in every day life - - in every day settings. Its rare for most Atheist's to bring it up at all.

However - - in every day life - - you do encounter God believers. They tend to be quite open about it.

Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by ihavenoaccount
reply to post by Annee

 

Yo, yo, yo... I ain't countering atheism. Not in the slightest.

I can read.

Point is - - - you're forming opinions of Atheists mostly from what you read in discussion forums on the net.

You're probably talking mostly to 20 year olds - - who were raised in a religious household and are rebelling. Some may actually continue on with lack of belief in a god - - - some will go back to believing. This seems to happen a lot once they get married and have kids.

You are not encountering Atheists (that you know of) in every day life - - in every day settings. Its rare for most Atheist's to bring it up at all.

However - - in every day life - - you do encounter God believers. They tend to be quite open about it.

I can say in my own experience that I know atheists personally who behave like this (in their personal lives, at work, AND on the net). It's not as rare as you might think (which is part of the reason I felt compelled to start the thread and gather opinions on the subject to try to better understand it from an atheists perspective instead of my own admittedly biased Christian view).

Originally posted by petrus4

I try to avoid them, . . .

You try to avoid Atheists? LOL

Let me know when you're out and about in every day life - - the next time one comes up and introduces him/herself to you.

The reality is that Christians don't really want to take over the world any more or less than any other group of human beings.

Really?

Originally posted by DeadSeraph

I can say in my own experience that I know atheists personally who behave like this (in their personal lives, at work, AND on the net). It's not as rare as you might think (which is part of the reason I felt compelled to start the thread and gather opinions on the subject to try to better understand it from an atheists perspective instead of my own admittedly biased Christian view).

So what kind of work/play do you do - - - that you meet open talkative Atheists? And what area of the country?

You are questioning here. Do you question and provoke this same conversation in real life? Are you the one who starts the conversation/

I'm at the beach near Hollywood CA. I did meet one young man Atheist by accident in conversation. Very nice young man - very laid back and polite. He was from Budapest.

Yes - absolutely I do think its rare in every day life. Although I do think it is beginning to "come out of the closet" - so to speak.

Even though you can't fire someone for being Atheist any more - - - you can find ways to push them out. It still happens. Not believing in God is still a social taboo.

Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by ihavenoaccount
reply to post by Annee

 

Yo, yo, yo... I ain't countering atheism. Not in the slightest.

I can read.

Point is - - - you're forming opinions of Atheists mostly from what you read in discussion forums on the net.

You're probably talking mostly to 20 year olds - - who were raised in a religious household and are rebelling. Some may actually continue on with lack of belief in a god - - - some will go back to believing. This seems to happen a lot once they get married and have kids.

You are not encountering Atheists (that you know of) in every day life - - in every day settings. Its rare for most Atheist's to bring it up at all.

However - - in every day life - - you do encounter God believers. They tend to be quite open about it.

You've assumed a lot here, not that I'm taking it personally.

I'll give you this. Yes, I'm 21 years old, and most of my close friends from school, university and other settings are in that 18-24 age bracket. But I have acquaintances outside of that age bracket who love to be douchey about their atheism. Age is not everything here.

By the way, most "faith" schools in the UK are filled with those who, for all intents and purposes, are atheistic or agnostic. They may harbour a lack of belief or just maintain that it's not possible to know at this time. Many of their parents are also the same way, and want their children to think for themselves (some just don't care, our country's in the midst of the Age of Apathy at the moment XD). It was the same for us, and for me. We aren't rebelling.

I've travelled a bit, and so have my friends. We meet people from all walks of life. When we have long conversations, we may get to the whole "God" debate, and that's always where it gets heated. There will either be someone who says, "You can't prove the Bible wrong, and you're a fiddlesticking pervert if you're gay!" or someone who says, "You're a fiddlesticking numpty for believing in that old fairy tale, evolution ftw!"

No matter which group of people I talk to, or where I talk to them, there's always one with an unnecessarily bullish stance on the matter, and can't just "agree to disagree".

Originally posted by ihavenoaccount

I'll give you this. Yes, I'm 21 years old, and most of my close friends from school, university and other settings are in that 18-24 age bracket. But I have acquaintances outside of that age bracket who love to be douchey about their atheism. Age is not everything here.

Actually it is - - and it should be. You are at an age you should be questioning.

I have changed my ideas and views of EVERYTHING over many years. I am so far removed from the person I was at 21 its scary.

BTW - - from your posts I would have thought you were older. Good job

By the way, most "faith" schools in the UK are filled with those who, for all intents and purposes, are atheistic or agnostic.

I can only speak of the US. I've heard those in the UK are much less religious.

Our country's in the midst of the Age of Apathy at the moment XD). It was the same for us, and for me. We aren't rebelling.

Hey! You're talking to an Old Hippy (minus the drugs)

Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by DeadSeraph

I can say in my own experience that I know atheists personally who behave like this (in their personal lives, at work, AND on the net). It's not as rare as you might think (which is part of the reason I felt compelled to start the thread and gather opinions on the subject to try to better understand it from an atheists perspective instead of my own admittedly biased Christian view).

So what kind of work/play do you do - - - that you meet open talkative Atheists? And what area of the country?

You are questioning here. Do you question and provoke this same conversation in real life? Are you the one who starts the conversation/

I'm at the beach near Hollywood CA. I did meet one young man Atheist by accident in conversation. Very nice young man - very laid back and polite. He was from Budapest.

Yes - absolutely I do think its rare in every day life. Although I do think it is beginning to "come out of the closet" - so to speak.

Even though you can't fire someone for being Atheist any more - - - you can find ways to push them out. It still happens. Not believing in God is still a social taboo.

edit on 27-6-2012 by Annee because: (no reason given)

I don't even talk about this sort of thing in my personal life unless I know for certain the person I bring it up with shares my beliefs. I used to be preachy when I was young, and I eventually learned how much it pisses people off. With age I grew to understand that I don't need to "save" anyone, and that's not my job at all. I eventually decided to leave that sort of thing in God's hands, and to respect the diversity of opinions and beliefs out there.

In regards to what I do, I don't think that's relevant, really. The preachiest atheist I've ever met in my life I met in highschool (she was older than I and finished school) through a mutual friend and we maintained contact over the years through facebook. The other individual I know I met through work (video game development) and while not as preachy as the former individual, was certainly outspoken about it, and didn't mind voicing his opinions on how Christians were idiots around the office (and does so to this day on FB, as we remain friends). I usually chose to keep quiet (as he was my lead). Come to think of it, I've encountered a lot of the same from at least 2 other individuals in the work place, and I encounter it very frequently in school (I'm currently a college student).

As for the country I live in, that would be Canada.

Originally posted by DeadSeraph

I don't even talk about this sort of thing in my personal life unless I know for certain the person I bring it up with shares my beliefs. I used to be preachy when I was young, and I eventually learned how much it pisses people off. With age I grew to understand that I don't need to "save" anyone, and that's not my job at all. I eventually decided to leave that sort of thing in God's hands, and to respect the diversity of opinions and beliefs out there.

In regards to what I do, I don't think that's relevant, really. The preachiest atheist I've ever met in my life I met in highschool (she was older than I and finished school) through a mutual friend and we maintained contact over the years through facebook. The other individual I know I met through work (video game development) and while not as preachy as the former individual, was certainly outspoken about it, and didn't mind voicing his opinions on how Christians were idiots around the office (and does so to this day on FB, as we remain friends). I usually chose to keep quiet (as he was my lead). Come to think of it, I've encountered a lot of the same from at least 2 other individuals in the work place, and I encounter it very frequently in school (I'm currently a college student).

As for the country I live in, that would be Canada.

My son-in-law is Canadian.

Young idealists tend to be very vocal. They want to change the world.

Anyway - - - what I'm getting from this is - - - maturing social graces. Not that everyone out grows rude in-your-face behavior.

Young - open minded - - - keep it going.