Absolutely hate arguing with people over stupid things

Yet... day after day, I continue to argue with 9/11 conspiracy theorists, young earth creationists/alien depositists, dietition folk, etc.

I don't know why I'm obsessed with arguing with them. It would be over if we could just agree on the facts, but we can't even do that. Something as simple as deciding if the sky is blue can turn into a heated argument that ends with me smashing my face into my keyboard.

I just don't know what motivates me to keep doing it. So much more could be done with my free time, and I start to get threats against me when I argue with the wrong people.

Nothing gets me going like being accused of being a liar when I'm trying to use common sense and logic.

I was following a similar line of thought earlier in the week and I think that I decided that fighting is really kind of fun. Even if the fighting is over such things as you descried, pouring your energy into trying to defeat your opponent feels exhilarating (at least to me it does)

I agree with Mkoll - the debate should be entertaining - when it turns into a fight, its time to walk away with the understanding that no matter how much we think we're right, some people will NOT be convinced. Ever.

So why not let those people do what they desire and stick to what you enjoy doing?

For example, I think all Religions are man made concepts to control large populations. So I stay far away from Religious fanatics, free will is a beautiful thing, and if that's the life they choose, have fun with that.

9/11 conspiracies aren't going away, at least until they release the Pentagon surveillance camera footage, or show real definitive proof of their OS. They birthed the conspiracies by being so vague.

Nutrition and better health advice I'm all for though. Again, if someone still wants to eat a box o' Burger Kind while washing it down with Aspartame cola, have fun with that, it's your lives.

reply to post by JibbyJedi


lot of good posts from you tonight first off - just wanted to say, I noticed ♥

but for the record, if they did release the alleged footage you speak of - who would believe it wasn't cgi?

its way too late for that is all I'm sayin

Originally posted by Varemia
Yet... day after day, I continue to argue with 9/11 conspiracy theorists, young earth creationists/alien depositists, dietition folk, etc.

I don't know why I'm obsessed with arguing with them. It would be over if we could just agree on the facts, but we can't even do that. Something as simple as deciding if the sky is blue can turn into a heated argument that ends with me smashing my face into my keyboard.

I just don't know what motivates me to keep doing it. So much more could be done with my free time, and I start to get threats against me when I argue with the wrong people.

Nothing gets me going like being accused of being a liar when I'm trying to use common sense and logic.

I think that kind of division is exactly what they want. I believe that every belief system has some truth and some fiction, and to really find reality you have to be both open to everything, and willing to examine everything with a critical eye. That may sound like a contradiction to some but it's how truth is discerned from such a huge conglomeration of ideas.

When you argue with people, they become defensive, and you become defensive back, and in the end you both just end up clinging to your particular belief systems even more religiously than before. Then neither side learns anything or becomes any closer to "the truth", that elusive thing we're all trying to find. So instead of arguing maybe try acknowledging the common ground you have - you both just want the truth to prevail after all - and working with them on that common ground. Maybe you'll both end up realizing things about the world that you didn't before.

What gets me the most is when common ground can't even be found. I try to be reasonable and open to all possibilities, but most of the arguments from others rely on imagining realities.

For example, in a recent thread I've been arguing in, I can't even get the guy to agree that we're looking at the same object. I'm finding schematics, videos, and dissections of jet engines to show him that the debris is, in fact, a part of a jet engine. We can't even agree that it's that. How can we move any further if the base information is at odds?

Kind of like with the pentagon videos. There's no definitive proof that the videos even exist, yet they are sought after as if they are some holy grail. All the videos that seem to exist have been released already and show nothing. I just don't see how a person can be so sure if there is no objective proof of it.

The internet has connected us all to a certain point, that point is far from the "mark" we all want. This venue engages us in many different concepts and ideas. None of which hit the mark.

Everyone has their own idea on how things work. Nobody is right.

It's time to share information and "get along".

Knock it off!

Originally posted by Forevever
reply to post by JibbyJedi

 

lot of good posts from you tonight first off - just wanted to say, I noticed ♥

but for the record, if they did release the alleged footage you speak of - who would believe it wasn't cgi?

its way too late for that is all I'm sayin

Thanks for the compliment, I've been starring your posts too, well written.



As for the CGI, I think there are plenty of experts out there who will dissect the footage over and over again and be able to definitively prove whether it's a real plane or CGI. I think TPTB know this and have chosen to not release that footage... because they know their CGI is not perfect, and only a small minority of people actually still care about 9-11.

I also agree that it does seem to be way too late on that topic. We're never going to really know what happened like with JFK and the rest of the conspiracy bag of holes in official stories.

Originally posted by litterbaux
The internet has connected us all to a certain point, that point is far from the "mark" we all want. This venue engages us in many different concepts and ideas. None of which hit the mark.

Everyone has their own idea on how things work. Nobody is right.

It's time to share information and "get along".

Knock it off!

Yeah. I'm thinking I need to find an alternative way to spend my energy. The environment at home kind of sucks. No private space of my own to work on projects like dorm life at college.

It is kind of funny how I keep frustrating myself with it though. I keep trying to understand the thought processes behind the divisions, but it just isn't clicking. The only time I shared their viewpoints was when I was ignorant of the other facts. It's all convoluted.

reply to post by Varemia


There is absolutely nothing wrong with expanding your mind. You should question, everything. Even things that seem mundane. Not as a conspiracist but as a human.

You see, we've all made it to this point by making good decisions. In order to continue the evolution, you need to make good decisions.

The majority of the people that are convinced these things a real tend to be quite unintelligent. I say that as an observation, not a petty insult. Due to this they have an inability to argue a point effectively and apply logic to situations. I know how you feel. Of course this may be a stereotype and by no means does it apply to everyone.

A lot of people will whole heartedly believe a conspiracy theory based on just things they've read on sites like this one, they refuse to see things from another point of view and will not consider other possibilities although they lack any proof or sometimes even the slightest hint of evidence. These are the people I'm talking about.

Originally posted by litterbaux
reply to post by Varemia

 

There is absolutely nothing wrong with expanding your mind. You should question, everything. Even things that seem mundane. Not as a conspiracist but as a human.

You see, we've all made it to this point by making good decisions. In order to continue the evolution, you need to make good decisions.

I'm all for questioning everything. I just don't like the absolute denial of evidence that goes on all the time. Sometimes it's like all proof will mean diddly squat for some people.

They say "show me proof" and then come up with a million and a half excuses to dismiss your proof.

reply to post by Varemia


Why are you not ok with people denying facts?

You are not going to change the world. There is a place for everyone, even the subjects.

There is nothing that you can do to change people and/or influence them.

My advice is this, STOP TRYING. Accept the truth you've realized and move on.

Not trying to be rude or offensive, this is the truth.

Originally posted by litterbaux
Nobody is right.

How can you make that claim?

reply to post by Varemia


You stated,

I don't know why I'm obsessed with arguing with them

Maybe you are a latent debater.
If you change your mind, it is easy to stop arguing.

reply to post by SpearMint


Judging by history, I think the claim justifies itself.

Originally posted by Varemia
What gets me the most is when common ground can't even be found. I try to be reasonable and open to all possibilities, but most of the arguments from others rely on imagining realities.

For example, in a recent thread I've been arguing in, I can't even get the guy to agree that we're looking at the same object. I'm finding schematics, videos, and dissections of jet engines to show him that the debris is, in fact, a part of a jet engine. We can't even agree that it's that. How can we move any further if the base information is at odds?

Kind of like with the pentagon videos. There's no definitive proof that the videos even exist, yet they are sought after as if they are some holy grail. All the videos that seem to exist have been released already and show nothing. I just don't see how a person can be so sure if there is no objective proof of it.

So in the debate of "what hit the Pentagon" you clearly don't have common ground. But see, there can still be common ground to be found in the broader picture. Regardless of whether it was an "inside job" or not, we all know there are certain things about the reaction and consequences of the attack that don't add up. For example, it was essentially a Saudi-sponsored attack, but we went to war with Iraq and Afghanistan, not Saudi Arabia. Why is this? We've also gone down such a horrid path of jettisoning liberty for security and the ills caused by the "war on terror" are far worse than the ills caused by terrorism itself. In my opinion, those are much more important topics of discussion than whether or not the towers came down at "free fall" speed or not. I don't really care whether the towers fell at free fall or not, because that doesn't personally affect me. What does personally affect me, and everyone else, is when we, our wives, our daughters, etc are gawked at naked and groped in airports, the soldiers who died overseas (which outnumber the 9/11 deaths - how ironic is that?), the spying on citizens personal information without warrant, the indefinite detention of American citizens, etc. If those things are examined in mainstream society with any degree of intellectual honesty, then it wouldn't matter whether 9/11 was an inside job or not because it would render false flag attacks unfruitful anyway.

reply to post by SilentKoala


You are absolutely correct in your assessment.

The means to the the end doesn't really matter. It's the end that matters most.

Its been 11 years, lets see how this makes america more free, able and prosperous!

Originally posted by litterbaux
reply to post by Varemia

 

Why are you not ok with people denying facts?

You are not going to change the world. There is a place for everyone, even the subjects.

There is nothing that you can do to change people and/or influence them.

My advice is this, STOP TRYING. Accept the truth you've realized and move on.

Not trying to be rude or offensive, this is the truth.

I think maybe I keep hoping they've got something, and I argue in the hopes that they'll post that one piece of evidence that will convince me.

Bleh, it's a load of garbage, it is. The funny thing is that when I leave the discussion, they lose my insight and knowledge of various evidences. Then, without a certain perspective, the conspiracy side rallies and declares a lack of opposition to be proof of point.