Need help on arguing against the bible

reply to post by adigregorio


One of my sons' is an amputee and a disabled vet.
He almost died twice last year and by G-d's grace,
mercy and healing he is doing much better.

reply to post by mamabeth


That same grace will take away cancer in other injured folks.

Not just help them "deal with cance" no! He will actually make the horrible stuff go away! Not to mention the plethora of other horrible things he will cure. Leprosy! AIDS!

But when you ask him to hook you up with your arms/legs back. Nothing. You get a "lesser" answer ALWAYS.

Guilt trips work not on me.

Furthermore, the topic is how to battle pastors (and others) who can't seem to keep their beliefs to themselves. That is the topic I am responding to.

The FACT that this argument will make them go away, after they exaust all forms of fallcious logic of course.

Lastly, care to comment on the unforgivable sin? You guys are super fast to snip out the prayer stuff, but you can't discount that Hitler can go to heaven but I can't.

He is ALOT worse than I am. All I did was cuss out the holy spirit, he killed millions of the chosen people.

THAT, to me, shows that the concept of that god is flawed.

"Kill millions? Just apologize, and you're in."

"Question the spirit? You're out."

(You do know why thinking is worse than action in that religion right?)

reply to post by Bleeeeep


You give that poster a star?

1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. 2 Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters

3 And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light. 4 God saw that the light was good, and he separated the light from the darkness. 5 God called the light “day,” and the darkness he called “night.” And there was evening, and there was morning —the first day.

Obviously we are fast forwarding to when the Earth was coalescing into a mass and the gases leftover from the formation process surrounding the planet are clearing the skies and allowing light to penetrate the surface of the Earth after the atmosphere cooled as it had been previously a chaotic mass of super heated gases and particles.

6 And God said, “Let there be a vault between the waters to separate water from water.” 7 So God made the vault and separated the water under the vault from the water above it. And it was so. 8 God called the vault “sky.” And there was evening, and there was morning —the second day.

9 And God said, “Let the water under the sky be gathered to one place, and let dry ground appear.” And it was so. 10 God called the dry ground “land,” and the gathered waters he called “seas.” And God saw that it was good.

This is geologically correct. As the crust formed it cracked into large pieces and those pieces moved colliding with others which buckled and folded and the land began to rise above the water that covered the entire planet at that time.

11 Then God said, “Let the land produce vegetation: seed-bearing plants and trees on the land that bear fruit with seed in it, according to their various kinds. ” And it was so. 12 The land produced vegetation: plants bearing seed according to their kinds and trees bearing fruit with seed in it according to their kinds. And God saw that it was good. 13 And there was evening, and there was morning —the third day.

That would be the series of events according to the evidence found so far, and keep in mind those are not literal days. That's God's frame of reference compared to how we experience time. I wink of God's eye according to the Bible is 10,000 years. E=mc2

14 And God said, “Let there be lights in the vault of the sky to separate the day from the night, and let them serve as signs to mark sacred times, and days and years, 15 and let them be lights in the vault of the sky to give light on the earth.” And it was so. 16 God made two great lights—the greater light to govern the day and the lesser light to govern the night. He also made the stars. 17 God set them in the vault of the sky to give light on the earth, 18 to govern the day and the night, and to separate light from darkness. And God saw that it was good. 19 And there was evening, and there was morning —the fourth day.

That is about the formation of the Moon after what seems to be best described as a collision that separated Earth matter form the Moon. There is now supporting evidence for that scenario being the case of how the Moon was formed.

20 And God said, “Let the water teem with living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth across the vault of the sky.” 21 So God created the great creatures of the sea and every living thing with which the water teems and that moves about in it, according to their kinds, and every winged bird according to its kind. And God saw that it was good. 22 God blessed them and said, “Be fruitful and increase in number and fill the water in the seas, and let the birds increase on the earth.” 23 And there was evening, and there was morning —the fifth day.

Life in the sea did form first and these things upload.wikimedia.org... did fill the sky after life came from the sea.

24 And God said, “Let the land produce living creatures according to their kinds: the livestock, the creatures that move along the ground, and the wild animals, each according to its kind.” And it was so. 25 God made the wild animals according to their kinds, the livestock according to their kinds, and all the creatures that move along the ground according to their kinds. And God saw that it was good.

Mammals

26 Then God said, “Let us make mankind in our image, in our likeness, so that they may rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky, over the livestock and all the wild animals,[a] and over all the creatures that move along the ground.” 27 So God created mankind in his own image, in the image of God he created them; male and female he created them.

Sounds like we were genetically engineered from apes, and it seems the text is not talking about just two people, but a group. Read on

reply to post by Bleeeeep

28 God blessed them and said to them, “Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it. Rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky and over every living creature that moves on the ground. ” 29 Then God said, “I give you every seed-bearing plant on the face of the whole earth and every tree that has fruit with seed in it. They will be yours for food. 30 And to all the beasts of the earth and all the birds in the sky and all the creatures that move along the ground—everything that has the breath of life in it—I give every green plant for food. ” And it was so. 31 God saw all that he had made, and it was very good. And there was evening, and there was morning —the sixth day.

That describes the dawn of civilization, and it means we are still in the sixth day when converting God's frame of time reference to ours. A wink of God's eye is ten thousand years.

And that text above quoted out of Genesis 1 (New International Version) is written as conversational excerpts that God is having with the angles during different stages, or eras of Earth's development and evolution please keep in mind.

Originally posted by mamabeth
reply to post by adigregorio

 

One of my sons' is an amputee and a disabled vet.
He almost died twice last year and by G-d's grace,
mercy and healing he is doing much better.

With the greatest respect M, one cannot help but question as to why he is healing and not healed and why he is doing better and not better.

Also, it would appear that your claim is, that at the point of death Yawhe/jesus took it upon himself to prevent your son from dying.

The claim is that Yahweh/jesus does not and can not change his mind because he is omnipresent and omniscient and the actual time and date of the demise of each of us including your son has allready been created "god's plan".

We can now begin to observe that there does not appear to be any grace at work here because yahweh/jesus did not actually save your son from death at all, he just had had not chosen to kill him at those given times.

No doubt you would try to argue that Yahwhe/jesus would not kill your son but this would indicate that you had not thought through what the bibles clearly state.

You have to admit that there (according to the bibles) only 2 states of being ie good or evil and both of these have (again according to the bibles) been created by your god yawheh/jesus.

So, it would appear that your son either acted in an evil way so as to warrant someone acting in defence and injuring him or acted in a good way protecting himself from a percieved threat from someone els acting in an evil way.

Either way as your god yawhe/jesus created evil and has caused the injury to your son which would indicate that William Lane Craig is barking up the right tree when he claims god's bad is "intrinsically good".


We can now observe that you are being tricked Mamabeth, your god has deliberately made your son suffer I order that you show gratitude for your god not killing him.

Please remeber M, the bibles clearly state that yawhe/jesus is the author of evil so you cannot blame your sons injuries on anyone but your god, especially if your god is the creator of all that there is,was or will ever be.

"Kill millions? Just apologize, and you're in."

reply to post by adigregorio


No forgiveness for the consumption of blood I'm afraid, this is the biggest sin of all. totally unpardonable do not pass go and do not collect $200.

I am forever curious as to how many million xtians consume blood in one form or another but think sayiung sorry to jesus will save them from punishment, no way pedro. Kill millions, keep slaves, rape children but whatever you do, do not consume blood.

Originally posted by ChristianJihad

"Kill millions? Just apologize, and you're in."

reply to post by adigregorio

 

No forgiveness for the consumption of blood I'm afraid, this is the biggest sin of all. totally unpardonable do not pass go and do not collect $200.

Untrue!

Originally posted by adigregorio

"And the scribes who came down from Jerusalem said, 'He has Beelzebub,' and, 'By the ruler of the demons He casts out demons.' …'Assuredly, I [Jesus] say to you, all sins will be forgiven the sons of men, and whatever blasphemies they may utter; but he who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit never has forgiveness, but is subject to eternal condemnation;' because they said, 'He has an unclean spirit'"

Mark 3:22-30

"Therefore I say to you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven men. Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man, it will be forgiven him; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit, it will not be forgiven him, either in this age or in the age to come"

Matthew 12:31-32

There you go, just say:

The holy spirit is a pansy ass fool.

Be sure to believe it, like I do (Well I believe much worse things about that so-called "spirit")

Jesus said it himself THREE TIMES no less. You talk crap about the spirit, you're out.

As you can see...ALL SINS can be forgiven, EXCEPT the questioning of the holy spirit.

reply to post by LilDudeissocool



What he was getting at is that most plants need a certain kind of light and since the light wasn't produced by the Sun then the plants would make it questionable.

If we take day and night, in the first sentiment of it being light and darkness, then how can plants survive with that kind of light - its paradoxical without supernatural effects. That's why I added at the bit about "why would they write it unless they had been told that", and then the computer reality bit, and why I gave him a star for a half way good question. I said half way because we can only make the argument based on what we do not know or understand.

Isn't suicide supposedly an unforgivable sin unless you can be baptized postmortem (Mormons).

reply to post by adigregorio

Untrue

Very true

Ye shall eat the blood of no manner of flesh: for the life of all flesh is the blood thereof: whosoever eateth it shall be cut off.

Originally posted by Bleeeeep
reply to post by LilDudeissocool

 

What he was getting at is that most plants need a certain kind of light and since the light wasn't produced by the Sun then the plants would make it questionable.

If we take day and night, in the first sentiment of it being light and darkness, then how can plants survive with that kind of light - its paradoxical without supernatural effects. That's why I added at the bit about "why would they write it unless they had been told that", and then the computer reality bit, and why I gave him a star for a half way good question. I said half way because we can only make the argument based on what we do not know or understand.

Verse 11 is the first segment? I assume you meant to write "segment."

I wrote angle for angels so I guess we have the same typo habits.

reply to post by LilDudeissocool

sentiment
noun
1. feeling, thought, idea, view, opinion, attitude, belief, judgment, persuasion, way of thinking

Genesis 1:3-5 (KJV)

3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.

4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.

5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.

I meant the way of thinking or ideal given, by the segment, that gives an informal definition/description. i.e. God called the light Day and the darkness Night. That is the first sentiment, or way of thinking, that we're given to bring definition, or characteristics, to Day and Night.

Is this light able to feed plants? I'll say yes, but that yes is based on faith. Then again, it does beg to be questioned, because the light doesn't come from the Sun. We know most plants need a fairly high amount of light to feed on - so where's this light coming from? The light needs to come from a strong source, but the source cannot be so close or so strong as to burn the plants up.

And again, I say it's only a half-way good question, because it has to be based on what we do not know. If we knew for certain what caused the light, and that that kind of light could not support plants, then it would be a good question.

Genesis 1:3-5 (KJV)
sentiment



I do flub a lot of words though.
The other day I said thought instead of taught, and a lot of times I use rather instead of whether or I mix up then and than and effect and affect. etc. etc.


The English language -- more confusing than the ideal of a God.

reply to post by ChristianJihad


Ack! I misunderstood your fist post!

I thought you were saying that my sins were forgivable!

Also, thank you for placing my foot square in my mouth with your source!!!

There ya go OPer some valid points, the punishment for the "crime" doesn't seem to fit these sins.

Well, assuming you eat blood from a blood bank and not like a vampire!

Originally posted by Bleeeeep
reply to post by LilDudeissocool

 

sentiment
noun
1. feeling, thought, idea, view, opinion, attitude, belief, judgment, persuasion, way of thinking

Genesis 1:3-5 (KJV)

3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.

4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.

5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.

I meant the way of thinking or ideal given, by the segment, that gives an informal definition/description. i.e. God called the light Day and the darkness Night. That is the first sentiment, or way of thinking, that we're given to bring definition, or characteristics, to Day and Night.

Is this light able to feed plants? I'll say yes, but that yes is based on faith. Then again, it does beg to be questioned, because the light doesn't come from the Sun. We know most plants need a fairly high amount of light to feed on - so where's this light coming from? The light needs to come from a strong source, but the source cannot be so close or so strong as to burn the plants up.

And again, I say it's only a half-way good question, because it has to be based on what we do not know. If we knew for certain what caused the light, and that that kind of light could not support plants, then it would be a good question.

Genesis 1:3-5 (KJV)
sentiment

 

I do flub a lot of words though.

The other day I said thought instead of taught, and a lot of times I use rather instead of whether or I mix up then and than and effect and affect. etc. etc.


The English language -- more confusing than the ideal of a God.

> Appreciate the clarification on your choice of diction.


> The point that plants were said to arrive on Earth is chronologically feasible. After the continents had risen up out of the sea is when plant life began. Photosynthesis had to take place to make the first alga possible and it did form in shallows and coastal pools. This is inline with both the scientific community and Biblical beliefs when all the prior interpretations are stripped away. You can't get around it.


What you are dealing with are folks who want to reinvent civilizations, new morals and dogma that are flawed that goes along with it. If you want to give them credence go ahead and be my guest, but they haven't created crap, so they are just film in a pond still without realizing it. Ignorance is bliss, and deliberate ignorance makes the ignorant feel all warm and cozy inside because you can be a degenerate animal without guilt living off a civilization that was built generation before upon Yahweh's temple. Today people want to biuld the Babylonian temple, the Tower of Babylon, and it will implode as it did before. Lots of King Nimrods running around espousing they know best, and they claim to know best by spinning facts into falsehoods, more power to them, history is doomed to repeat itself because of them. Don't forget to give them stars... ya hear?

reply to post by LilDudeissocool


Lol touche.

I'll give you a star for that, but know that I'm not under the impression that the question could in anyway compromise the preacher's or anyone else's faith, if they have true faith. I liken it to someone asking their Sunday school teacher how Jesus walked on water - they will just answer with, "God works in mysterious ways."

I think a being much smarter than us has been trying to do away with the books of the bible for a very long time, and if he isn't able to form an argument against the bible that works, than we certainly wont be able to.

Originally posted by Bleeeeep
reply to post by LilDudeissocool

 

Lol touche.

regarding what?

Originally posted by Bleeeeep I'll give you a star for that, but know that I'm not under the impression that the question could in anyway compromise the preacher's or anyone else's faith, if they have true faith. I liken it to someone asking their Sunday school teacher how Jesus walked on water - they will just answer with, "God works in mysterious ways.

Religion and science are completely two different subjects. The Bible is metaphoric and abstract. This is why religious texts in the way the Bible is written could never be disproved by science; interpretations yes, but not the text. Faith comes from wanting to believe or not to believe based on what one's own lifestyle is all about. If you live a lifestyle that conflicts with what you believe the Bible says then you will want to not believe it is the truth. If your lifestyle does not you will embrace it as the truth. Both are beliefs. Both can have logical grounds for believing one way or the other such as answering questions as, "What are the odds for Genesis 1:1 getting the chronological order correct?"

Originally posted by Bleeeeep I think a being much smarter than us has been trying to do away with the books of the bible for a very long time, and if he isn't able to form an argument against the bible that works, than we certainly wont be able to.

It's impossible, as I've stated "Religion and science are completely two different subjects. The Bible is metaphoric and abstract."

If you talk to god its called praying,but if he talks to you your schitzaphrenic same if you see the devil or demons you will be commited! but if the bible says they are there, well i guess they are there, not! if everything that happens is part of some devine plan, praying is obviously a waste of time and energy at the end of the day all your prayers are, are a 50 50 hope and faith dont let your selfishness get in the way of gods great devine plan!