Aussie Gov Says They'll Fine Anyone Who Blames Carbon Tax For Price Increases, Despite Carbon Tax C

Originally posted by beezzer
reply to post by Nspekta

 

I'm not sure I'm following this right.

The government raises taxes and if you say anything about the rise in taxes, you get punished?

No. More like: If you gouge your customers, and then blame the government, and it can be proven this is what you did, you will be fined. Truth in advertising. Sensible.

Originally posted by buster2010

Originally posted by beezzer
reply to post by Nspekta

 

I'm not sure I'm following this right.

The government raises taxes and if you say anything about the rise in taxes, you get punished?

No you only get punished if they jack the prices up and blame the taxes.

The power companies will not take this sitting down.

Ahhh, so the government raises taxes and the businesses that are affected can't relate that rise in their costs due to the tax inreases.

Kinda like price-fixing.

Won't that hurt business?

reply to post by buster2010

You do understand it's not carbon but carbon dioxide they are taxing. And there is no atomic number for it because only elements have atomic numbers, compounds do not. Carbon dioxide is made up of 1 carbon atom and 2 oxygen atoms.

There goes your mark of the beast theory.

Carbon is the mark of mankind. The beast to overcome is us. Individual, National and Global.

18 This calls for wisdom. Let the person who has insight calculate the number of the beast, for it is the number of a man.[e - or of mankind] That number is 666.

To get this, you must see the symbol for its connection to context. Genesis 3 describes the fruit of the garden that was not meant to be touched. All the other fruit was good for man. The one that brings knowledge and understanding is the one that is tied to technology. Carbon is that fruit of knowledge. Technology is what is gained from the energy and the technology. Apart from this fruit, we have a garden to live in with fruit and no work necessary for it's consumption. God's fruit of bio-engineered / biomechanical technology does not take from nature. It degrades and gives back. The fruit that kills the garden is technology of the Carbon.

God clearly stated that our punishment was to toil (work) for our food now.

Isaiah said this:

46:10

I make known the end from the beginning, from ancient times, what is still to come. I say: My purpose will stand, and I will do all that I please.

To know the end of the story from the beginning, we must decipher the symbols. The WORD is locked in symbol. The key is to see under the surface and waves of the ocean we see. We illuminate this darkness with light.

Originally posted by beezzer
reply to post by Nspekta

 

I'm not sure I'm following this right.

The government raises taxes and if you say anything about the rise in taxes, you get punished?

Our current Prime Minister took control of Australia by performing a coup d'etat against our old one. We then went to an election due to massive unhappiness from the Australian Public. Julia Gillard (our current PM) won the election on the basis that there wouldn't be a Carbon Tax under her government.

-We fast forward to today and there is evidence that she was going to implement one.
-We fast forward to today and there is going to be a Carbon Tax

This Carbon Tax taxes companies which produce carbon (dioxide). Now instead of the companies paying the taxes and losing money, they are going to raise the prices of their products so there is no decrease in their income when they pay said tax.

Get where i am going?

In this event, the public will be forced to pay more for food and other widely used/needed products as a result of the taxing of these companies.

Now if these companies blame the Carbon Tax for increased prices, and if discovered to be untrue claims, then they will be fined $1.1 Million.

It's a win/win situation for the government.

Originally posted by Nspekta
reply to post by daaskapital

 

Thank you!

2nd

No worries mate

Originally posted by beezzer


Ahhh, so the government raises taxes and the businesses that are affected can't relate that rise in their costs due to the tax inreases.

Kinda like price-fixing.

Again, No. As the article states, legitimate claims will not be fined. It is in no way saying that people cant criticize the carbon tax, nor is it saying one cant attribute FACTUAL claims f price increases due to the implementation of the carbon tax. Its simply saying companies cant raise gouge their customers and then blame the carbon tax. Of course, if you read past the headline you would know that.

This is no different than rules that say, for example, that an airline or power company cant add an extra $50 fee on to your ticket or bill and say its related to a 'carbon tax' when it isnt.

reply to post by beezzer


No.

Stanguilles7 has summed it up best...

No. More like: If you gouge your customers, and then blame the government, and it can be proven this is what you did, you will be fined. Truth in advertising. Sensible.

Originally posted by stanguilles7

Originally posted by beezzer


Ahhh, so the government raises taxes and the businesses that are affected can't relate that rise in their costs due to the tax inreases.

Kinda like price-fixing.

Again, No. As the article states, legitimate claims will not be fined. It is in no way saying that people cant criticize the carbon tax, nor is it saying one cant attribute FACTUAL claims f price increases due to the implementation of the carbon tax. Its simply saying companies cant raise gouge their customers and then blame the carbon tax. Of course, if you read past the headline you would know that.

This is no different than rules that say, for example, that an airline or power company cant add an extra $50 fee on to your ticket or bill and say its related to a 'carbon tax' when it isnt.

edit on 28-5-2012 by stanguilles7 because: (no reason given)

1. I did read past the headlines. Don't be rude.
2. I asked for clarification because it was confusng.
3. I received said clarification, so the issue is more about the Aussie government lying about carbon taxes than anything else.
4. Poor Aussies. When can they vote her out?

Originally posted by beezzer

4. Poor Aussies. When can they vote her out?

Next year...that is unless we go to an early election (which doesn't seem likely).

Originally posted by beezzer

1. I did read past the headlines. Don't be rude.
2. I asked for clarification because it was confusng.

The clarification you sought was all in the source article you claim to have read.

so the issue is more about the Aussie government lying about carbon taxes than anything else.

How so?

Originally posted by stanguilles7

Originally posted by beezzer
so the issue is more about the Aussie government lying about carbon taxes than anything else.

How so?

Because we wouldn't have any of this if Gillard stayed true to her word.

Originally posted by daaskapital

Originally posted by beezzer

4. Poor Aussies. When can they vote her out?

Next year...that is unless we go to an early election (which doesn't seem likely).

Could you expect these taxes to be rolled back if another PM gets elected? Or is it like the states, once it's in, it's in for good?

Originally posted by beezzer

Originally posted by daaskapital

Originally posted by beezzer

4. Poor Aussies. When can they vote her out?

Next year...that is unless we go to an early election (which doesn't seem likely).

Could you expect these taxes to be rolled back if another PM gets elected? Or is it like the states, once it's in, it's in for good?

If Tony Abbot (the Opposition Leader) is voted to be PM next year, then he said he will demolish it. So there is some hope, as long as he stays true to his words (which he most probably will).

Originally posted by stanguilles7

Originally posted by beezzer


Ahhh, so the government raises taxes and the businesses that are affected can't relate that rise in their costs due to the tax inreases.

Kinda like price-fixing.

Again, No. As the article states, legitimate claims will not be fined. It is in no way saying that people cant criticize the carbon tax, nor is it saying one cant attribute FACTUAL claims f price increases due to the implementation of the carbon tax. Its simply saying companies cant raise gouge their customers and then blame the carbon tax. Of course, if you read past the headline you would know that.

This is no different than rules that say, for example, that an airline or power company cant add an extra $50 fee on to your ticket or bill and say its related to a 'carbon tax' when it isnt.

edit on 28-5-2012 by stanguilles7 because: (no reason given)

It is not the false claims I am worried about. It is the potential abuse of new governmental power I am worried about. The small business that tries to justify its new across the board price raises due to increased energy costs from the new tax is much more likely to be punished for trying to speak out than the well connected national chain of stores whose lobbyists have had enough dinners and played enough golf with officials to get away with a hell of a lot more.

I have already said that price gougers in a small business situation are likely to punish themselves because other small businesses can undercut the price gougers with prices closer to the true fair market value. When multiple small businesses band together and raise prices in unison to prevent undercutting then that is a conspiratorial monopoly. That is something that I feel it is a governments duty to protect the people against. However, giving the government the ability to massively fine somebody for citing "false" claims that the carbon tax is reason for increased energy costs (and therefore universally increased costs) is outside my envisioned realm of governance, especially when larger entities that are friendly with the government are much more likely to be exempt from these fines.

reply to post by daaskapital


Great video!! Check out at 22 seconds in they state the cost will be passed on to consumers... Not to mention, as posted earlier, that energy is taxed, which increases the costs, which must be sucked up by retailers for fear of being fined for speaking out and explaining to people why they needed to raise prices

Originally posted by Nspekta
..., as posted earlier, that energy is taxed, which increases the costs, which must be sucked up by retailers for fear of being fined for speaking out and explaining to people why they needed to raise prices

Not even slightly.
As has been mentioned multiple times now, if there is a legitimate reason for rasing prices (such as the enrgy costs you mention) that is a perfectly legitimate reason for raising prices *by that degree* and no "fear of being fined" by mentioning it.

Originally posted by daaskapital
Julia Gillard (our current PM) won the election on the basis that there wouldn't be a Carbon Tax under her government.

Although often mentioned (mostly by Tony Abbott), I've never been convinced by that argument.

This "no carbon tax" statement was said on one occasion the day before the election.

The way I see it is that if there were any swinging voters who hadnt made up their mind who to vote for by that stage, and were so moved and outraged by her refusal to do anything about climate change they would have switched their vote to the Greens and Tony wouldnt have gotten that vote anyway.

Tony Abbotts policy was also no carbon tax, so anyone who was bothered about Gillard statement would never have voted for his party either... thus he still wouldnt be in power. Situation unchanged.

The way he spins it is that HE would be in power if she had never said that lie. I disagree.

Aussie is taking a step in the right
direction. The carbon tax seems to low
to make a difference though as of now
to help make the planet greener.
The carbon tax needs to be doubled
in australia so these corporate leeches
have to pay for dirtying up the air and ground..
Anyone not for saving the enviroment should
be sent to the moon anyways.. Pay your fair share

Ah the sweet smell of socialized govt at work...