What was God's reason to be a creator?

Originally posted by davidtheriault
I'm generally interested in what other people have to think about this. Why would God make anyone else? Not just from a religious point of the world and universe but in the physical sense. If something created us just as if we were to create new life what would be this creator or our reason be besides either entertainment or study.

To overcome loneliness. That's all.

Originally posted by dusty1
Time exists for us because we live in a universe that had a beginning.

Yes, but why did we have a beginning? God surely isn't deficit.

reply to post by imherejusttoread


I think your notion would be best described by saying all things exist in God's way. This would allow for physics and laws to change at times. i.e. God is just messing with the variables.

reply to post by imherejusttoread

Some very smart modern physicists like Bernard Haisch and Irvin Lazlow beleive that what we experience as the creation is the result of an intentional and intelligent subtraction from the absolute formless potential so that experience might be possible, which is occuring as pressurized crystalizations of light through the zero point field or the akashic field which remains forever fully informed in eternity, and I should point out, fresh and new at every moment (we must forgive as we are already forgiven?). From within the dimension of creation that we reside in, the apex of this non-localized, cosmic quantum-holographic phenomenon or occurance could very easily be projected from the POV of a single photon of light, because to a photon of light, all is one, and there is no time ie: the whole universe is touching (bet ya didn't know that)
I believe or suspect, since I'm not a physicist, in this lifetime anyway (I would like to come back and be one), is that there is one super-photon of light responsible for all apparent causation (there is only transformation from one thing into another) where "in the one are many" ie: that multiple photons are just one photon posing as many. This could be proven by experiment actually, by doing the double slit experiment with a multi-photon stream and trying to catch the multiple photons hitting the detection screen in perfect simultaneity - I'll bet they can only be recorded one at a time, as if a line of apparent single photons in succession..
In Genesis (not that I'm a creationist) there's talk of the creation of "waters above and waters below", so I think there's a higher domain of light of which this creation is but a reflection in physical manifestation, which is not unlike the intersecting pyramids of the star of david.

As far as I can tell the reason is varied experience and impressions and the desire to share everything, or in short, koinonia, which is the communion of intimate participation. It's like the spiritual equivalent of sexual intercourse and the comingling of the spirit of God and man so that we might reflect back to God the glory of God in reunification and atonement (at one ment) and enjoy God AS love with us, with us in him and him in us (there's the star of David again).

It's like a marriage of the spirit and the bride and we are the bride, those who open up to God (as spirit of truth and life aka spirit of the universe/one song), and we, spirit and bride then say to everyone else in the shared spirit of koinonia (and after the overcoming of the evil one who would seek to prevent this reunification process) - come, and FREELY drink the living water (of an eternal evolutionary recurrence ie: eternal life) all who are thirsty let them come (without hindrance or constraint or negative bias).

Someone must make the offering, and someone accept it.

Someone might interject here and accuse me of being a religious solipsist, but to them I would ask how we can be solipsistic if we're talking about a cosmic evolutionary process which by it's very nature is non-localized and holographic, and what's religious about wanting an authentic model of human spiritual and psychological perfection, seen making us also into sons of God within a family framework (brotherhood of man)..?

I'm quite familiar with Bernard Haisch's work; one of my first popular physics books was infact his God Hypothesis.

And, as much as I admire your explanation, let me stop you short here:

Originally posted by NewAgeMan
what we experience as the creation is the result of an intentional and intelligent subtraction from the absolute formless potential so that experience might be possible, which is occuring as pressurized crystalizations of light through the zero point field or the akashic field which remains forever fully informed in eternity,

Why should there be a subtraction, and why should there be experience? Both concepts imply a computational process where discrete steps are taken i.e. movement, or more simply, time. Why should I experience these things? If all is one [which I believe], then why should the experience of division or finity, at any point in the whole be possible?

If, transcending spacetime, all things shrink to a single point, there must be a particular variable similar to the physical concept of hidden variable required to explain this gap of knowledge within that single point. A hidden variable that justifies the illusion or holographic properties.

reply to post by NewAgeMan


I feel I read my own words when I read your stuff---but, i cannot write as well as you, so I know Its not me
(is the face for "goofy" me?)

However, one of my favorite pieces is from Dr. Haisch and I can post this link to it here:

homepages.ihug.co.nz...

I just loved the part in his essay when he says something about the Light is my eyes is God's-- This Light, right here and now, it the Light in my eyes is the Light of God! That just did it! The Light I see with is the same I Light that is God---God and Light are present because we know this Light is Here, we see It, and It is our very own Seeing!

Originally posted by Bleeeeep
I think your notion would be best described by saying all things exist in God's way. This would allow for physics and laws to change at times. i.e. God is just messing with the variables.

If I describe God as the sum total of all possibilities, then by necessity, God's way is all possible ways. This, then, taken to its logical conclusion, implies that all possible ways exist either physically [i.e. governed by certain physics] or potentially [i.e. conceivable/Platonism].

i posted a thread on this very topic and will quote what i said in that thread

"God creating physical reality is analogous to a mind wanting to create a body to experience rather than just know.
God at first was only equivalent to a mind (infinite raw energy which somehow clumped up enough to gain conscious thought. Once this conscious mind came to be, the first thing it realized was that It was all things, hence when looked at differently it was nothing, alone, there was nothing but its own consciousness, one consciousness (a way to imagine this is imagine if you had lost all your senses but still had your mind, you would be in your own little isolated universe).

So eventually this one consciousness realized that it was not content with this and needed to expand. It needed to procreate in at a consciousness scale. it needed purpose (as any ego does) it realised it could create any story or dream within its mind as there was no outside its mind.
So it decided so that it would split itself into an almost infinite amount of pieces with all pieces having the same god type consciousness, not dissimilar to how a hologram works. In a hologram, each piece has the whole contained with it.

It also realized that each piece couldn’t have any memory it where it came from or how it made the decision to come into this new form. It would also instil an innate thirst for knowledge, to learn everything would be its driving force; curiosity would be life’s motivator.


it would seek out to create and extension of itself that could be expressive. Akin to a mind creating a nervous sensory system where it could experience, just like our bodies are the vessel for our minds to experience a physical reality, without the senses there can be no physical experience at all. The universe is God’s vessel to experience.

If we take a look at a fractal, we see a never ending cycle of creation, a factual is simply a symbolic representation of what the infinite flow of energy (creation) emanating from this one consciousness looks like.

Thank you for taking the time read"

Look, when you exist everywhere that exists, all time, all space, when there's another of you overlapped, in all time, all space, ect, there is no separation of self between God and God (hence why a Trinity, in 1, makes sense). To experience personal separation, there's got to be a place/being to separate to, in which you can limit yourself from your full self. So, if God never experienced that until Had humans, that would be enticing enough, without us.

But there's an added bonus: If you get a bunch of these things with the capacity to think and act like you, but have never experienced the real Godhead, you get to have a unique experience with them. And as long as they are bound by time, they're never fully like you.

Now, there comes a limit on what you, as this being, will tolerate without end. Think: what pet peeve would you put up with for eternity? A lot of the laws God puts out are things like: "don't mock me" and "be good to one another" because, "I will not be stuck with you in this eternal car for another moment!"

Originally posted by imherejusttoread
If I describe God as the sum total of all possibilities, then by necessity, God's way is all possible ways. This, then, taken to its logical conclusion, implies that all possible ways exist either physically [i.e. governed by certain physics] or potentially [i.e. conceivable/Platonism].

I do not see a sum total of all possibilities. I think you are using God's works/abilities to define God. I don't think God can be described as being his works, as I cannot be described as being this sentence. No, I'm a meatbag behind a computer - not a sentence on a post.

I think what we can consider to be his works, may be described by him as the holy spirit. Furthermore, I think that anything we can see as being all possible ways, is not necessarily true inside a realm that God truly exists in. e.g. If God were to appear before you, it could be his avatar and not his true self. i.e. All possibilities of our realm do not have to be possible in all possible realms.

reply to post by davidtheriault

Very interesting question. In the Western monotheistic tradition, God is held to be all-knowing, all-powerful and perfect. Such a being cannot possibly have any needs or desires. Why, then, should it do anything at all?

Some western traditions also portray God as loving, jealous, etc. Such contradictions lie at the heart of traditional monotheism. Philosophers down the ages have struggled with them but they have never been satisfactorily resolved. They will not be resolved on this thread.

My comments on answers received so far are given below. Apart from a couple of noble exceptions (imherejusttoread, Bleeep), all the answers given have been anthropomorphic ones – meaning, that the person answering thinks of God as mentally and emotionally equivalent to themselves. But God cannot possibly have petty limitations and desires. If Man is made in God's image, then the image is diminished, warped and botched to the point where it bears no resemblance whatever to the original.

*

Originally posted by oneness86
We were created so that the universe can experience itself

This confuses pantheism, in which the universe is divine and self-creating, with the concept of an independent Creator. The latter already experiences Itself as the totality of all that is good, so it would be doing evil were it to create anything.

Originally posted by HangTheTraitors
Because "god" is entertained by humans being miserable.

A perfect being would not require entertainment.

Originally posted by smithjustinb
God doesn't have a reason to be a creator.

A perfect being would not do irrational things.

Originally posted by Bleeeeep
I'm gonna go with entertainment...

A perfect being would not have desires or be interested in trivia.

I'm going to ignore variations on the above reasons from here on.

Originally posted by GrandHeretic
What if he just is? And our existence is just another side effect of him just being?

If God is under a compulsion to create, He cannot be omnipotent.

Originally posted by smithjustinb
God is an artist. Creation is God's masterpiece. The point is beauty and glory.

God must be more beautiful and glorious than anything He creates, because He is perfect. It is inconceivable that the Divine Artist should turn away from the best to create something inferior.

Originally posted by HomeBrew
Why does anyone seek out each other? What does one miss out on by being singular?

A perfect being cannot be lonely, or miss anything or anyone.

Originally posted by Almalexia
To create the perfect creation. She will create a universe then destroy it and then create it again, forever or until She is satisfied that She has done her best.

Then she cannot be God, who is omnipotent and perfect. 'Almalexia' is a beautiful name, by the way: 'Word Soul' or 'Soul of Words'.

Originally posted by tkwasny
True to the definition of omnipresent.

This assumes God has a material dimension. Since matter is subject to decay, this is impossible.

Originally posted by imherejusttoread
There is no creation in the literal sense, but rather a variable that explains an illusion of creation.

An answer that takes the question seriously and displays some effort of thought. There are physical models of the universe in which time does not exist, which may offer some support to this conception. However, they are highly conjectural and unfalsifiable, therefore useless as explanations of anything.

Originally posted by NewAgeMan
God took on the ROLE of creator, and then forgot himself in that role, until now, and that's our job, to get to the end of "the program" and in the long, cosmic, process re-realize God as spirit.

This is no God, but the demiurge of Plato and the Gnostics.

Originally posted by Bleeeeep
We're a computer program and the realm we exist in is nothing more than a computed environment.

Since the program is indistinguishable from reality, this answer is both unfalsifiable and unhelpfu.

Originally posted by OpinionatedB
God created us, in my beliefs according to my religion, because that inner knowledge, that recognition of HIS FACE was a gift so great to us (His creation) that it was worth everything.

This answer raises the Problem of Evil, implying that God is either evil or limited in His powers. All religious answers that portray God as loving or good must founder against that rock.

Originally posted by imherejusttoread
God's way is all possible ways.

Then God is not good.

reply to post by Astyanax


I believe we are about to get into 'the problem of evil' in the hell thread... however, all evil is a consequence of disobediance to GOD... and GOD granted us free will, therefore allowed the possibility of evil...


evil is from our hand alone

Originally posted by Sweetmystery
reply to post by NewAgeMan

 

I feel I read my own words when I read your stuff---but, i cannot write as well as you, so I know Its not me

(is the face for "goofy" me?)

You mean the smiling grasshopper dude in my avatar, could be, but he's really the self-aware one (look at the smile) who knows he's in a trap he can easily escape at any time but for reasons of his own, he sits in the trap, equanimous, his antenna extended both to recieve and transmit. He is the self aware participant of ATS who knows damn well there's more going on than meets the eye, and even more going on right here at ATS as a watched channel of communication, than many suspect, so it's poking fun at the entire situation, with awareness and understanding, but not without an accusatory finger aimed at the appropriate observers, as if to say I know you know I know you know I know ad infinitum, but since I'm freely making the statement, the jokes on the jokers who thought they were operating, sereptitiously, and unbeknownst to us, a type of psychological operation by which to gage our thoughts and trap our energies. It's a statement about awareness, and a joke told at the expense of those who deserve it, while liberating the common man - that kind of thing.

reply to post by Astyanax


I do not believe in a God who loves, who is jealous, or has any emotion. What we believe in this regard is that GOD created Perfect Man, the first 14 in his creation. (They are Wahj Allah, the Face of God) It is through these 14 that GOD asigned their emotions to Himself.

What angers Them, angers Him... who they Love, He loves... and so forth...

We believe God is far above emotions, because he is far above any human frailty. However, God's perfect creation is human, and their emotions are as perfect as They. If something makes them angry, then justifiably it should be cause for what we would call GODS anger....

trying to explain in short words a difficult topic, sorry it has fallen short.

reply to post by OpinionatedB

The Problem of Evil is intractable. The free will argument begs the question of why an omnipotent, omniscient and omnibenevolent being could not create a universe in which we are free to do good but evil is impossible. Or why animals suffer, or why natural disasters occur. Besides, those who insist on free will have the awesome burden of proving, against all objective evidence, that such a thing exists.

I don't propose to argue the matter further in this thread. What I have written, I have written.

reply to post by Astyanax


Why do you think desire cannot be a variable of perfection?

Maybe desire is more perfect than possession?

Think of a super rich person. They do not desire money. They desire acquiring money.

reply to post by Astyanax


then we are slaves to only good, we are not truly free if we are not free to also disobey GOD

for us to be truly free, and free will to be given in truth, then evil must also be a choice.

reply to post by Bleeeeep

Why do you think desire cannot be a variable of perfection?

Desire implies a lack of that which is desired. In your example, what is desired is not money but, probably a sense of fulfilment or achievement whose measure is money.

Originally posted by davidtheriault
I'm generally interested in what other people have to think about this. Why would God make anyone else? Not just from a religious point of the world and universe but in the physical sense. If something created us just as if we were to create new life what would be this creator or our reason be besides either entertainment or study.

the Egyptian mythos goes on to speak of a past cycle of existence having all matter organize itself into concious form .. all eventually merging with one another into one final construct... a god-head.. at the very moment this godhead finished assembling him/her/it's self.. it felt great relif as there was no more conflict left in experience... a second later.. it felt great boredom as there was nobody else to experience.. and then great lonliness... so in an act of masturbation (yes becaUSE THere was nobody else to enjoy).. it orgasmed and split into infinity.. expressing itself in to utter chaos.. in ordeer to experience a new set of outcomes... in a new.. big bang.. over and over cycle upon cycle.. happening over and over... chaotic explosion.. eventual amalgamation into order.. .. congealing into one.. then exploding again.. a "big breathe" or "big bounce"...

reply to post by Astyanax


Consider that He doesn't want mindless companions. It could be possible that he wants nice companions who choose to be nice of their own free will. It could be possible that life is nothing more than a means to understand his judgement - so that we can freely choose to be nice by seeing how we were meanies. Hell could be a prison sentence and we are then released once we are rehabilitated. i.e. Once we understand why it is better to be nice we will be better companions.