German elite are discussing various scenarios involving the use of force to ensure control over Gree

Originally posted by Flavian
reply to post by Daedal

 

Well, to be honest, as Germany is expected to pay the bills for Greece, why can't they make some demands in return? Or are they just supposed to say "here is a blank cheque, do what you want with our taxpayers cash".

Then don't hand over cash then??
Everyone with some sanity left including the Greek people themselves know that it will just make things worse.
And by the way this whole crisis is due to corrupt bankers and politicians and now they want the Greek people to pay for the crimes committed by the elite.

Originally posted by juleol
And by the way this whole crisis is due to corrupt bankers and politicians and now they want the Greek people to pay for the crimes committed by the elite.

If by the elite, you mean the Greek politicians, then yes, your right.

But yes, they must pay sadly. Whats more fair, the Greek people paying for it, or the good people of Germany, who actually run their country and finances responsibly?

reply to post by Germanicus


For what? because Germany has a good and sound economy?
Because Greece were cooking their books?
Because Spain created a bubble in housing?
Because the salaries rose absurdly in the piigs countries, creating a disadvantage because their economy could therefore not compete with Germany or the other countries in the euro area?

First they enjoy cheap money, but because it is not put to good use (building a sound economy) they now should declare war on Germany?

Originally posted by earthling42
reply to post by Germanicus

 

For what? because Germany has a good and sound economy?
Because Greece were cooking their books?
Because Spain created a bubble in housing?
Because the salaries rose absurdly in the piigs countries, creating a disadvantage because their economy could therefore not compete with Germany or the other countries in the euro area?

First they enjoy cheap money, but because it is not put to good use (building a sound economy) they now should declare war on Germany?

They are bankrupt. It is not the fault of the people. It is because of 'taxpayer backed bonds'.

Corporations go bankrupt all the time. We should not be helping the IMF destroy Greece because the same thing is going to happen to you in the US. Do you want all of us calling Americans fat lazy deadbeats that cant pay their bills? Is that what you want?

Originally posted by nightbringr

Originally posted by Germanicus
reply to post by Daedal

 

I think that Greece,Spain and Portugal should declare War on Germany. I dont think France would help them now. The United States/IMF would. I think these countries need to call the bluff of the United States and Germany.

Maybe Germany and the United States would fight them but would any other Western Nation help the US and Germany? I think we would all rally behing the Greeks,Spainiards and Portuguese.

The enemies are becoming clearer.

Yep, great idea!

Borrow money hand over fist and run your country into the ground a la Greece, then when neigbours help you by giving you money and simply asking you to get your finances in order, your solution is to attack them militarily? What.........the..........fack............

Greece got themselves into this mess through years of massive deficit budgets. Germany, being a model of economic prosperity and financial responsibility is now being blamed? Why? Because they help Greece and simply ask them to get their books in order.

Have you ever read about the Spanish Civil War?

Its coming around again. And I cant wait.

edit- TAXPAYER BACKED BONDS!

reply to post by Germanicus

Oh no buddy, this is EU IMF and their little orderly social scientist in Germany.The people of the US won't support military excursions(and you won't go fight for......anyone evidently,just blah,blah blah hitler blah) This is the NWO beginning to bare it's teeth.They are about to embark into an ass whopping if they are stupid enough to move on this.People don't seem to appreciate being oppressed that is why they spend so much money on movies, games and colorful media to alter facts in our eyes.
But they can't seem to get around citizens with guns,which is why the ones who best know how to use them have them
Dang no cash, married, in school,crap I wanna go.
This was a set up with loans exactly like our housing industry.
www.huffingtonpost.com...
Of course this is just a "conspiracy theory " isn't it

reply to post by auraelium

What would three bankrupt nations have to gain by declaring war on one of the most powerfull armys in NATO?

It will expose them for the monsters that they are.

It will break up Americas Imperial Empire.

Western nations should be helping each other. If you people think that Germany and US/IMF are helping tyhe people of Greece you are all very very confused.

reply to post by cavtrooper7

(and you won't go fight for......anyone evidently)

Hey dude. I just read your post from my other thread. Everythings bigger in Australia. We are packing down under. And what do you mean I will not fight for anyone? I will fight for the people. I am busting for war to break out in Europe. I would join any nation that went to war with the IMF.

Originally posted by Germanicus
Corporations go bankrupt all the time. We should not be helping the IMF destroy Greece because the same thing is going to happen to you in the US. Do you want all of us calling Americans fat lazy deadbeats that cant pay their bills? Is that what you want?

No one is helping the IMF destroy Greece. Greece has done a great job of it all on their own. With the help of Goldman Sachs, they cooked their books to get into the EU. Hell, Greeks used to retire earlier than most countries much more prosperous, they spent hand over fist on failing national assets like the Greek national railway, had a rampant social programs they could not pay for, and an entire one fifth of the Greek population was employed by their bloated government.

Greece got themselves where they are. If you want someone to blame, it should be placed souly on the shoulders of the Greek government ministers of the time. And the people should have known better..............People dont retire in the USA, the worlds strongest economy till 65. How the hell do they think they could have afforded to retire at 50? Thats 15 extra years where taxpayer money must support you. Do you have an idea how massive a drain that is on your economy? Taxpayer bonds didnt get them here. If you want to argue about that, ill go toe to toe with you. Simply put, the government overspent year after year and now cannot pay it back.

And you want to militarily attack those who are helping them. The only conditions German is putting on Greece is that they repay (no brainer, why should Germany pay for Greek negligence and criminality), and they get their books and finances in order!

Why in the hell would anyone think those are bad things?

Originally posted by nightbringr

Originally posted by Germanicus
Corporations go bankrupt all the time. We should not be helping the IMF destroy Greece because the same thing is going to happen to you in the US. Do you want all of us calling Americans fat lazy deadbeats that cant pay their bills? Is that what you want?

No one is helping the IMF destroy Greece. Greece has done a great job of it all on their own. With the help of Goldman Sachs, they cooked their books to get into the EU. Hell, Greeks used to retire earlier than most countries much more prosperous, they spent hand over fist on failing national assets like the Greek national railway, had a rampant social programs they could not pay for, and an entire one fifth of the Greek population was employed by their bloated government.

Greece got themselves where they are. If you want someone to blame, it should be placed souly on the shoulders of the Greek government ministers of the time. And the people should have known better..............People dont retire in the USA, the worlds strongest economy till 65. How the hell do they think they could have afforded that?

And you want to militarily attack those who are helping them. The only conditions German is putting on Greece is that they repay (no brainer, why should Germany pay for Greek negligence and criminality), and they get their books and finances in order!

Why in the hell would anyone think those are bad things?

edit on 28-5-2012 by nightbringr because: (no reason given)

But the Office for National Statistics seems to be on a mission to rescue us from our own prejudices. New data published this morning shows that Greek workers actually put in longer hours than anyone else in Europe

www.guardian.co.uk...

You just read capitalist bs and parrot it.

The IMF is not helping Greece,they are destroying it. Greeks dont want the money. They can Nationalize and go to Autarky. The Empire wont let them.
www.abovetopsecret.com...

reply to post by Germanicus


The IMF is not destroying Greece, merely they provide aid along with all other countries in the euro area to make sure Greece does not have to default on its debt.
If it does the whole global system does, Greece should use this time and aid to reform its economy.
But instead they are not doing anything to solve their problems, only complaining about austerity.

reply to post by Germanicus


Isn't it nice, longer hours while producing next to nothing.
So how productive are those hours?

reply to post by Flavian


Sounds like a convenient excuse to start enacting fascism and the return of Nazi Germany. Maybe Germany should just let Greece go back to the drachma, and people should begin to understand that in capitalism, any loan you make is a risk. If you don't get paid back, then it's your own fault for being so stupid.

It would be similar to arguing that I owe you 10 grand, so you have the right to demand that I become your slave.

Originally posted by earthling42
Isn't it nice, longer hours while producing next to nothing.
So how productive are those hours?

Exactly. Longer hours mean nothing if they are not productive.

Case in point:
www.guardian.co.uk...

The OP should read that. Its a small article highlighting some of the main reasons Greece has ended up the way they have.

Originally posted by earthling42
reply to post by Germanicus

 

Isn't it nice, longer hours while producing next to nothing.
So how productive are those hours?

Hows Americas debt/gdp ratio? Not good hey. Looking pretty bad for you guys. Soon the world will be calling for Austerity on you guys. They will say you are hotdog eating obese,lazy deadbeats that have half your country on Food Stamps. You guys will know how the Greeks feel soon enough.

Edit-Netherlands. Its coming to you too.

Originally posted by AnIntellectualRedneck
Sounds like a convenient excuse to start enacting fascism and the return of Nazi Germany. Maybe Germany should just let Greece go back to the drachma, and people should begin to understand that in capitalism, any loan you make is a risk. If you don't get paid back, then it's your own fault for being so stupid.

It would be similar to arguing that I owe you 10 grand, so you have the right to demand that I become your slave.

Funny thing is, if Greece bailed from the EU and printed their own money, they would be worse off, wouldnt they?

Since they are still spending far more than they earn, they would be forced to print money the first month to pay for social services, pay for public servants and more. So they print massive amounts of money, month after month to pay their politicans and more. What is the direct effect of this? Inflation.

Now since Greece is not self-sufficient, they must buy needed commodities on the world stage. Due to the massive inflation however, their money is now near worthless and in order to purchase, they print more money, leading to spiraling inflation.

I pity the Greek people if they take that path. Their ONLY real way out is to balance their budget as soon as possible. Yes, it will mean hard times in the future but no where near as bad as the alternative.

reply to post by nightbringr


Nightbringr, i wasnt calling Flavian stupid, i was saying, who is the stupid one i.e. Germany for lending the money to a bankrupt nation or the Greeks for not paying their taxes! To me its the Germans and the MF lendimg the money who are "more stupid".

Originally posted by Germanicus
Hows Americas debt/gdp ratio? Not good hey. Looking pretty bad for you guys. Soon the world will be calling for Austerity on you guys. They will say you are hotdog eating obese,lazy deadbeats that have half your country on Food Stamps. You guys will know how the Greeks feel soon enough.

Except the USA has one advantage: their money tied to oil, meaning they can print a hell of a lot of money with little inflation.

Briliant, really. Never understood for a second people wanting to tie it to gold, its a hell of a lot better the way it is.

reply to post by Germanicus


Greece is still a Democracy it's people can vote and consequently Greece as a nation can do what it likes , but living beyond it's means is only possible by subjugating to it's lenders.

reply to post by Germanicus


America does not cook its books, neither does the Netherlands.
If you want to find a debt burden country, try Japan, but they to, dont cook their books, work and produce, so they can manage their own.
So will America manage their own, for the Netherlands it will be a different case (monetary union)

I wonder why you react in this way? do you prefer Greece to default?

Its not about the Greek people being lazy, its about preventing a collapse of the whole system.
I certainly do agree with you that the Greek people are not to blame, the elite politicians are and should be prosecuted for that.