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German elite are discussing various scenarios involving the use of force to ensure control over Gree

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posted on May, 28 2012 @ 05:43 AM
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"Including the establishment of a protectorate or the deployment of "protection forces" in that southern European country. The German austerity dictate, pushing Greece into destitution, is provoking growing popular resistance, which, apparently, can no longer be suppressed with democratic means. Berlin has failed in its efforts to force Athens into subordination by threatening to withdraw the Euro, as much as with its demand that Greece combines its parliamentary elections with a referendum on the question of remaining in the Euro zone. Berlin categorically rejects the option of retracting the austerity dictate and replacing it with stimulus programs, as is being demanded by leading economists world wide, even though the exclusion of Greece form the Euro zone threatens to push the currency, itself, into an abyss."

gfp.com

In addition, Berlin has obviously applied pressure on Athens to combine a referendum on remaining in the Euro zone with the elections. This tactic is aimed at weakening the opponents of austerity. According to reports, German Finance Minster Schäuble made this proposal already last Monday to his Greek counterpart at the meeting of the Euro finance ministers.[2] This proposal is obviously supported by the Chairman of the CDU/CSU parliamentary group in the Bundestag, Volker Kauder ("Now German will be spoken in Europe" [3]). A Greek government spokesman confirmed that Chancellor Angela Merkel urged Greek President Karolos Papoulias last Friday to implement the German plan for a Greek referendum, whereas in November 2011, Berlin briskly rebuffed the Prime Minister at the time, Giorgos Papandreou, when he publicly announced his proposal to hold a referendum. This led to his demise. Berlin's open interference is met with outrage in Athens. The Greek population has a "right to respect," the chairperson of the conservative Nea Dimokratia, Antonis Samaras, was quoted as saying. And the chairman of the opposition party Syriza, Alexis Tsipras, declared that Berlin is acting as if Greece "is a protectorate."




posted on May, 28 2012 @ 05:49 AM
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reply to post by Daedal
 


Well, to be honest, as Germany is expected to pay the bills for Greece, why can't they make some demands in return? Or are they just supposed to say "here is a blank cheque, do what you want with our taxpayers cash".



posted on May, 28 2012 @ 05:54 AM
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Question.
Why did we wave their war debt?
Did we feel bad? Because we got some scientists? We funded Hitler?did the war not end like we've all be told?



Or some other, Logical reason that I just don't know? XD



posted on May, 28 2012 @ 06:07 AM
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reply to post by Daedal
 


I think that Greece,Spain and Portugal should declare War on Germany. I dont think France would help them now. The United States/IMF would. I think these countries need to call the bluff of the United States and Germany.

Maybe Germany and the United States would fight them but would any other Western Nation help the US and Germany? I think we would all rally behing the Greeks,Spainiards and Portuguese.

The enemies are becoming clearer.



posted on May, 28 2012 @ 06:08 AM
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Originally posted by Flavian
reply to post by Daedal
 


Well, to be honest, as Germany is expected to pay the bills for Greece, why can't they make some demands in return? Or are they just supposed to say "here is a blank cheque, do what you want with our taxpayers cash".


I guess they ended up paying war reparations after all.



posted on May, 28 2012 @ 06:09 AM
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Originally posted by Flavian
reply to post by Daedal
 


Well, to be honest, as Germany is expected to pay the bills for Greece, why can't they make some demands in return? Or are they just supposed to say "here is a blank cheque, do what you want with our taxpayers cash".


You don't get it do you, the greeks have placed many of their national treasures up as collaterol against the debt.
Do you know of anyone who would lend multiple thousands of dollars without securities attached in case of default?.
Why do you think it is any different for multiple billions?.
Germany is not "Expected to pay the Bills", the greeks stand to lose the parthenon in the case of a full default, along with some islands in their territorial waters.



posted on May, 28 2012 @ 06:10 AM
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reply to post by The X
 


They do not. Can you actually see the Greeks allowing that?

Come on...seriously.



posted on May, 28 2012 @ 06:21 AM
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It has taken GERMANY more than 60 years to try and CONQUER EUROPE.............. seems they are getting there...............or at least attempting to
edit on 2012/5/28 by PerceptiveOne because: additional verbiage...... lol



posted on May, 28 2012 @ 06:33 AM
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reply to post by The X
 


Actually, i totally get it. After a full year of austerity, one town only managed to raise 18'000 euros in taxes. That is from a full town! Sorry but the Greeks have had decades of fiddling taxes at every level. They have had huge amounts of European cash thrown at them. Now they have to pay the bills.

As Germany is currently the only successful economy in the Eurozone, yes it is them expected to pay the bills. If i was German, i would be fuming to be honest.

Whilst the Greeks were sold a pup, they have certainly done more than any other nation to get themselves in a mess. My sympathies with Greeks lies with ordinary people suffering rather than the actual situation - what do you think the end result of cheating your taxes for decades is? The bill has to be paid sooner or later........



posted on May, 28 2012 @ 06:35 AM
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Originally posted by Flavian
reply to post by Daedal
 


Well, to be honest, as Germany is expected to pay the bills for Greece, why can't they make some demands in return? Or are they just supposed to say "here is a blank cheque, do what you want with our taxpayers cash".


But the Greek people do not want Germanys money, they just want to govern themselves. It is the politicians that are pushing them into borrowing more money, they are just throwing money away, the Greek people know that, the European people know that but throwing money away is easier for the politicians at the monute than going into the deep unknown, which is what will happen should they let Greece fold.



posted on May, 28 2012 @ 06:36 AM
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reply to post by Germanicus
 





I think that Greece,Spain and Portugal should declare War on Germany. I dont think France would help them now. The United States/IMF would. I think these countries need to call the bluff of the United States and Germany.

Maybe Germany and the United States would fight them but would any other Western Nation help the US and Germany? I think we would all rally behing the Greeks,Spainiards and Portuguese.


In the unlikely event that such a scenario ever does happen I'd like to think that the UK would do a bit of fence sitting for once.

If we joined the side of the PIGS then they'd only resent us for helping them - and if we were ever to help the US I'd like to think we'd wait a 3 or 4 years during which time we'd make enormous amounts of money and the eventually join in and convince the world that we'd won the war single handedly.


reply to post by PerceptiveOne
 




It has taken GERMANY more than 60 years to try and CONQUER EUROPE.............. seems they are getting there...............or at least attempting to


There's the slight problem of the UK who will stand alone, again, against Germany if need be.



posted on May, 28 2012 @ 06:38 AM
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reply to post by Flavian
 


Despite the UK officially being in a Recession right now, the UK is still a successful economy. The reason we have negative growth is a tempoary reason, when 52% of the UK population were working for the Government, there had to be a mass adjustment, once that adjustment is complete the UK will produce better growth figures than Germany probably due to our currency independance.



posted on May, 28 2012 @ 06:43 AM
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reply to post by michael1983l
 


Kind of correct but mainly we are still in recession because around 2/3 of our daily trade is with Eurozone countries. Obviously, with the problems in the Eurozone, the UK is not exporting as much to this region, hence contraction of the economy. This is also why the UK economy will not grow properly until the Eurozone is fixed (whether that is staying with the Euro or a return to National Currencies).



posted on May, 28 2012 @ 06:46 AM
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Originally posted by michael1983l

Originally posted by Flavian
reply to post by Daedal
 


Well, to be honest, as Germany is expected to pay the bills for Greece, why can't they make some demands in return? Or are they just supposed to say "here is a blank cheque, do what you want with our taxpayers cash".


But the Greek people do not want Germanys money, they just want to govern themselves. It is the politicians that are pushing them into borrowing more money, they are just throwing money away, the Greek people know that, the European people know that but throwing money away is easier for the politicians at the monute than going into the deep unknown, which is what will happen should they let Greece fold.


The problem there though is that Greece has no money. It has welched on its debts also, meaning that the rich investors who usually fund bailouts, etc, will be reluctant to be burned again. Added to that, a new Greek currency would be worthless internationally meaning even more problems - whilst this would eventually correct itself and even out, it would still mean years of strife and turmoil for Greece.

Like i said previously, i fell sorry for the Greeks (individuals) in themselves but as a state they have brought this on themselves (so hard to feel sympathy).



posted on May, 28 2012 @ 07:00 AM
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reply to post by Flavian
 


A weak Greek currency is exactly what they need, it will be painful initially but soon after the Greek domestic output will increase. Greeks will start to inovate to produce goods for themselves rather than rely on expensive imports which they cannot afford. The beauty of this happening means it will soon turn into a competative exporter and thus will eventually balance the economy out in between 5 to 10 years. That is much less time than they will spend paying their debts back under mass austerity. The only option for the good of the Greek people is default and reverting back to the drachma.



posted on May, 28 2012 @ 07:03 AM
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Originally posted by Flavian
reply to post by michael1983l
 


Kind of correct but mainly we are still in recession because around 2/3 of our daily trade is with Eurozone countries. Obviously, with the problems in the Eurozone, the UK is not exporting as much to this region, hence contraction of the economy. This is also why the UK economy will not grow properly until the Eurozone is fixed (whether that is staying with the Euro or a return to National Currencies).



The UK is barely not in growth now by the skin of its teeth, despite mass public sector redundancies and domestic pay freezes. In a way this shows that the UK economy is strong as it is holding its own despite the economic pressures. Luckily for the UK most of its export is high tech industry and technical services, most less developed countries do not have much option than to use the UK for these services because they are not available from most other countries, not even the mighty China. The UK will be fine.



posted on May, 28 2012 @ 07:03 AM
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reply to post by Freeborn
 



The Second World War[1] officially began on September 1, 1939, with the German invasion of Poland. Britain and France declared war on the Nazi Third Reich on September 3, 1939. Seven days later, on September 10, 1939, the Parliament of Canada likewise declared war on Germany, the country's first independent declaration of war[2] and the beginning of Canada's participation in the largest combined national effort in its history. By war's end, 1 million citizens would have served in military uniform, and Canada would possess the fourth-largest air force and third-largest naval surface fleet in the world

en.wikipedia.org...


World War II: about 55 million
Of those:

Military(millions) Civilian (millions)
USSR 13.6 7.0
Yugoslavia 0.4 1.3
USA 0.3 0.006
Poland 0.3 4.2
Canada 0.04

fathersforlife.org...

Britian stood alone?
ungratefull as it gets eh?
next time we will let Britian stand alone with all the cartoon guns

to the real world:
the whole debt is Globalist banker made the militaries are globalist banker controlled just like the US and britian
the jingoism is just motivational propaganda...the BANKERS don't want another Iceland it will destroy their pimpdom
any one who thinks this is the idea of the German peeps, or the Greek peeps is simply uninformed to say the least
edit on 28-5-2012 by Danbones because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 28 2012 @ 07:06 AM
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reply to post by Danbones
 

Edit... sorry missed that you were Canadian, Canada faught side by side as did the rest of what was then the British empire.
edit on 28-5-2012 by michael1983l because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 28 2012 @ 07:08 AM
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Originally posted by michael1983l
reply to post by Flavian
 


A weak Greek currency is exactly what they need, it will be painful initially but soon after the Greek domestic output will increase. Greeks will start to inovate to produce goods for themselves rather than rely on expensive imports which they cannot afford. The beauty of this happening means it will soon turn into a competative exporter and thus will eventually balance the economy out in between 5 to 10 years. That is much less time than they will spend paying their debts back under mass austerity. The only option for the good of the Greek people is default and reverting back to the drachma.


Whilst this is true, Greece would still be left with the burden of huge amounts of unpaid debt. That will not easily be forgiven or forgotten. As such, repayment would still be expected, even allowing for hugely reduced amounts. And the real problem for Greece is they do not really export anything the world wants (not a slight on Greece, more a reference to the fact they do not have any internationally relevent industry).



posted on May, 28 2012 @ 07:08 AM
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reply to post by michael1983l
 


ETA.

Oops.
edit on 28/5/12 by Freeborn because: (no reason given)



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