Was Jesus a Greek-Phoenician Philosopher? A hidden book, revealed…

reply to post by RedAmnesia


I think it is very important that we examine closer the many relationships and connections between the Greeks, Phoenicians (People of the Phoenix), the people we refer to as the Hebrews, and the Egyptians.

There are many other subdivisions that are related into this spider web directly, Caananites, etc.

An important thing to note here is that they all traveled the same region, the same coastal areas, etc.
They had many similar practices, shared ideas, etc. We are talking thousands of years of time for people to travel, intermix, war, trade, etc. Cultures rise and fall, traditions come and go.

Let's examine the history of Carthage for example, and the legends of it's founding.
Check this article out and google for more about it : Carthage and the Phoenicians

legends of Carthage origins

Keep in mind that just like Phoenicians, the Greeks also spread out all over the coastal areas even up to the Black Sea and all the way past the Straight of Gibraltar.

Please examine these two maps for comparison purposes:
Map of Phoenician Colonies
Map of both Greek and Phoenician colony expansion Blue is Greek, Red is Phoenician


Oh and by the way, people from the city of Phoenix Arizona are colloquially known as "Phoenicians" as well.

Originally posted by LifeInDeath
You say that according to this book, written in the 800's, the Phoenicians reached South America? How does he describe this? How do you know he was talking about South America?

Exactly. At the moment, the 2 sources the op provided to us are from wikipedia. Nothing about the book he said he read. All we have is his personal narrative. Amazing how people jumped to assumptions and started to praise this member for something without proof.

I really hope he can show us evidence for his huge claims, meanwhile I personally refuse to be "taken to a trip".

Also many archaeologists actually consider "Phoenician" to be a "later development of Caananite" itself.
So sort of a Neo-Caanan in a sense.

Here are two really cool links to check out for more reading.
Phoenician Civ

Colonialism in Antiquity

Oh and you know the words "Phone" and "Phonetics", in relation to speech? Let's examine their origins.

"representing vocal sounds," 1826, from Mod.L. phoneticus (1797), from Gk. phonetikos "vocal," from phonetos "to be spoken, utterable," verbal adj. of phonein "to speak clearly, utter," from phone "sound, voice" (see fame). Phonetics "scientific study of speech" formed in Eng. 1841.

Phoenician late 14c., from M.Fr. phenicien, from L. Phoenice, from Gk. Phoinike, perhaps lit. "land of the purple" (source of purple dye). Identical with phoenix (q.v.), but the relationship is obscure.

Now check out this source material, from an actual book available online:
The Phoenicians and the West: Politics Colonies and Trade

It clearly states that it is widely known that the Phoenicians never called themselves that. 'Phoenician' derives from Greek terminology used to refer to the Phoenicians.

Also it states that they have not yet resolved how Phoenix is related to Phoenician, or these other root words. It's still quite the mystery.

reply to post by RedAmnesia


Forgive my ignorance here, but you say you learned aramaic? How does one learn a dead language? Not being snippy, I am serious.

Originally posted by TKDRL
reply to post by RedAmnesia

 

Forgive my ignorance here, but you say you learned aramaic? How does one learn a dead language? Not being snippy, I am serious.

From Aramaic Wiki

Over 400,000 people of various communities from across the Middle East, and recent emigrants who have moved out of these communities, speak one of several varieties of Modern Aramaic (also called Neo-Aramaic) natively, including by religious adherence; Christians, Jews, Mandaeans and a very small number of Muslims. Having lived in remote areas as insulated communities, the remaining modern speakers of Aramaic dialects escaped the linguistic pressures experienced by others during the large scale language shifts that saw the proliferation of other tongues among those who previously did not speak them, most recently the Arabization of the Middle East and North Africa by Muslim Arabians, during their spread of Islam.

So it's not technically dead, although this is a derivative of the ancient Aramaic obviously.

reply to post by RedAmnesia


How could Melchizedek mentor Jesus?

Melchizedek was King of Salem (which 600 years later in 1000 BCE, became Jerusalem).

Melchizedek was not contemporary with Jesus Christ. over 1,600 years separates them.

Also, the times of various things the OP mentioned as being described in the book are not historically correct either.

The Phonecians did not call the city of Byblos by that name, they called the city Gulba. The word Byblos means Papyrus in Greek and this gave the city its Greek name. As the bible was a book, it was originally written on Papyrus and therefore was referred to as "the book", or Bible, from the Greek name of Papyrus.

Currently, the city of Byblos is under Lebanese control and therefore has the Arabic name of Jubayl.

The Phoenician peoples are descendent from Semitic Canaanite peoples, they are not the forefathers of them. There is some evidence that the Phoenicians (and Greeks) interbred with the Jewish tribe of Dan. This was AFTER Moses had led the Israelite people out of captivity in Egypt:

Diodorus of Sicily said: "They say also that those who set forth with Danaus, likewise from Egypt, settled what is practically the oldest city of Greece, Argos, and that the nations of the Colchi in Pontus and that of the Jews, which lies between Arabia and Syria, were founded as colonies by certain emigrants from their country . . ." (Diodorus, Bk. I, xxviii, 1-5).

Hecateus of Abdera says that the Egyptians, troubled by calamities, in order that the divine wrath might be averted, expelled the foreigners -- all aliens gathered together in Egypt. Of these, some, under their leaders DANUS and CADMUS, migrated to Greece, others to other regions, but the greatest number to "Syria," that is, Palestine, their leader said to have been Moses.

There are several other historical and archaeological details which identify that the Phoenicians, Greeks and Jews (specifically the tribe of Dan) have strong blood ties.

Also, the Jews moved up from Egypt into Canaan as shown by the fact that the first city they took was Jericho. They did not come from the North (Phoenicia & Greece) and move South.

There were several monotheist religions in the area of Canaan that preceded Abraham. It would be highly likely that the traditions of Abraham, and his God would exist well before Moses.

It is more than strange that we have little or no knowledge about the Phoenicians, considering they created our alphabet. I wonder if they ever left any cache of scrolls yet unfound that tells us about this amazing culture. They must have had some religious beliefs, some mythical tales.

reply to post by poet1b

Originally posted by poet1b

It is more than strange that we have little or no knowledge about the Phoenicians...

Yes it is VERY strange, but the saddest part about it, it's NOT by accident:

The art of propaganda through falsification of history has been around for most of recorded history. This mind control technique has been used successfully by ancient historians to keep the facade in place and the population of the world dumbed down.

The Illuminati realized they had to deceive an entire population of people if they had any hope whatsoever of achieving their coveted New World Order. As early as 1911, the Illuminati began buying textbook writing companies, until they owned them all after World War I. Once they got control of textbooks, they gradually began to "dumb down" the curricula and rewrite history. Rewriting history was the first step in achieving the New World Order. Source

Who Really Discovered America?
Did ancient Hebrews reach the shores of the North and South American continents thousands of years before Christopher Columbus? What evidence is there for Hebrew and Israelite occupation of the Western Hemisphere even a thousand years before the Messiah? Was trans-Atlantic commerce and travel fairly routine in the days of king Solomon of Israel?

The Saga of Ancient Hebrew Explorers

Modern day archeologist dismiss anything remotely related to any stories like this because it's not what they were taught. It's funny that just because something isn't written in any history books it's discounted as false. We live in a world that's dictated so heavily that intelligent people aren't aloud to think for themselves. How do we know that what has been written in the history books is real in the first place. Because why would any government lie to their people? I personally feel it's all dictated in order to paint a picture of how the people in power want history to be known. It's just like the tale of Christopher Columbus, some guy who was well known throughout Europe sailed a ship to America and claimed it as his own, and there for he was the one who "discovered" America. Non-sense, simply non-sense. There are so many old artifacts in North America that proves this land has been inhabited much longer then previously thought, by many different races other than the Native Americans.

There is so much more to North America then what is written in the history books and what is presented in Museums. Don't be fooled by the power of dictated history. It's all dictated, edited and published as our government sees fit. Remember, that it's people with power who decide what is historical fact and what is fiction. We all must allow ourselves to see beyond what is taught to us in public schools.

The Lost City of the Dead in the Grand Canyon

How Did The Ten Commandments Get To America Before Columbus


Links to relevant articles:

Hebrew Explorers Discovered America
True Suppressions 1 - A Plot to Control History
True Suppressions 2:"Ancient Civilisations: Six Great Enigmas"
True Suppressions 3: Burrows Cave
True Suppressions 4: The Suppressed Story of the People Who Discovered the New World
The Saga of Ancient Hebrew Explorers
Hidden North American Archaeology and Native America
Oldest known 10 Commandments is in America
The Ancient Los Lumas New Mexico Hebrew 10 Commandments Stone
The Smithsonian Institution is covering up an archaeological discovery of immense importance
Has there been an archaeological cover-up reminiscent of the last scene in the movie Raiders of the Lost Ark

Originally posted by RedAmnesia
Going back to my subject, I lately read a book written by the Maronite monk “Estefanos Sarkis el Khoury” , written by him in the year 827-828 AD in the midst of Islamic conquest of the Near-East and during times of persecution where the Maronites Monks of Lebanon use to live hiding in the grottos of the Lebanese Mountains.

I've often asked myself this question, particularly how Judaism and Greek philosophy reacted to one another.

What might interest you is a philosopher named Aristobulus of Paneas. He posits:

Aristobulus is not contented with exhibiting the intrinsic agreement of the Mosaic law with the philosophy of the Greeks, but roundly assserts that the Greek philosphers, a Pythagoras, a Socrates, a Plato, derived their doctrines from Moses, nay, that even the poets Homer and Hesiod borrowed much from him, for that the essential contents of the Pentateuch had been rendered into Greek long before the Greek translation of the Pentateuch made under Ptolemy Philadelphus. This bold assertion, that Moses was the father of Greek philosophy and culture, was embraced also by later Jewish Hellenists. Especially do we again meet with it in Philo.

Aristobulus theorizes that all pagan culture and Greek philosophy were consequences of the Mosaic law/Judaism spreading. If this is true, then Jesus would be, in this context, the Logos i.e. the synthesis of the West's knowledge.

reply to post by muzzleflash


Learn something new every day. Yeah I would say 400,000 people makes it not as dead as I was lead to believe.

Originally posted by TKDRL
reply to post by RedAmnesia

 

Forgive my ignorance here, but you say you learned aramaic? How does one learn a dead language? Not being snippy, I am serious.

I just wanted to say this: Just because a language is dead, does not mean that you can't learn it. For example, there are many resources for Sumerian (one of the oldest languages not spoken today).

I would like to know why SO MANY religions have a returning "Savior". From Greek, Hawaiian, Chinese……

Seriously, what is going on?


www.infidels.org...

listverse.com...

reply to post by arpgme


Mind pointing me in the direction of those kinds of resources? Sounds fascinating really. I was planning on learning french, but I have scratched that one off my list. Why bother when I want out of this country and back in the US ASAP right? LEarning some ancient stuff language be fun though

reply to post by TKDRL


With answer to your question, being a journalist I have learned different languages and Aramaic (or Siriani) is being taught in Beirut for priests & monks and students of theology. I have taken the courses of this language at Kaslik University and still have one year left which I will finish at the same time with my work contract in Lebanon.

So people can learn here the following languages: Aramaic (Siriani), Greek, Latin, & Armenian along with Arabic, English & French,

reply to post by Trueman


With answer to your question:
In Lebanon as per my neighbor's kids are taught in school; the Phoenicians were the first to land in the Americas and they used to trade with the Native Indians all kind of products, mainly glass, and red dyes, and Egyptian products. It is also claimed that some native tribes moved to Egypt therefore the resemblance in the race/face drawings.
The curriculum here has always contradicted the western one in history. Proofs are written on tablets in the National Museum about how the Phoenicians reached first.
(Ref. Book of History 7th grade (Arabic language), chapter 3, School La Sagesse, translated yesterday by my neighbor to me to answer this thread questions)

Reply to Trueman and LifeInDeath

As for the author "Estefanos" to whom I read this book, he called the Phonecians by the words literally translated as "Poeni People" or "people of the white mountains on the sea" or simply as "sons of Tyr, Byblos, and Sidon".

In his book he mentioned with almost the same words (that's what he explained by writings) how the Phoenicians used to call the Native Americans, by this: "Hairless Brown Faced People behind the seas with big waves" and another one "the forest tribes after the big seas of Tingis" but he never mentioned any world related to America and when I briefed this book by points in the beginning of this thread I really briefed it and I didn't mention all these details but I hope this answer is good for you guys. And thank you for all your constructive and debating comments. I've been an old member here since 2008 and it's the first time I got so much into a discussion since my job is about writings all the time and debating, then it's sometimes annoying to feel I have to write more, but I'm a daily reader since 2008. Cheers to all ATS.

reply to post by RedAmnesia


Wow, sounds like an experience. I hope to make a middle east tour someday before I croak

reply to post by chr0naut


Here you go dear, I already commented on this one:

From the same link of Melchizedek that I provided, here's a quote that can answer your question: In Nag Hammadi Library: A collection of early Gnostic scripts dating on or before the 4th-century, discovered in 1945 and known as the Nag Hammadi Library, contains a tractate pertaining to Melchizedek. Here it is proposed that Melchizedek is Jesus Christ.[72] Melchizedek, as Jesus Christ, lives, preaches, dies and is resurrected, in a gnostic perspective. The Coming of the Son of God Melchizedek speaks of his return to bring peace, supported by the gods, and he is a priest-king who dispenses justice.[73]

reply to post by RedAmnesia


I thank you for all the effort you did to answer my post, but you didn't show us the book you read to corroborate your initial post.

Regarding the phoenicians in South America, you are making an interpretation based in the possible meaning of the words used in that text :

Ref. Book of History 7th grade (Arabic language), chapter 3, School La Sagesse, translated yesterday by my neighbor to me to answer this thread questions

That would be a second book, mentioned by you that we didn't see.

Maybe you can take a pic with the phone or scan both books. Surely we have people in ATS able to translate it.

reply to post by Trueman


You are welcome, as long as stress at work is not affecting me; I'll keep answering.

Regarding the Phoenicians in south America, I explained how they teach it in all schools in Lebanon that they were the first to visit the Americas and I mentioned this book very common here in most of the schools of the 7th grade and it has a chapter about that. While it also states in the same chpter that Columbus made it a common discovery later for Europeans and it was adopted that he discovered America.

As for the original book I read, I mentioned here before that I will try to take some pictures of its pages with my mobile cam today or tomorrow after work when i visit the library while the monk in charge doesn't notice what I'm doing since it is also impossible to borrow the historical books from the library without an approval from the Bishop of Beirut and that is almost impossible.

But the good news is that everybody can register free as student in this library and read its books so anybody living or visiting here can do the same. So I'm not hiding anything but the problem is how to get the photos of this book, that's all. The book has no title as it seems the front cover was destroyed over time but it's referenced by author name and year, their reference system is complicated and through the Syriac Alphabet (Aramaic) which I didn't memorize the order yet. But they find the books for all readers and check them before and after.